Confused on Increasing Vertical Jump

[OBoile]

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:

WS4SB is a powerlifting program with added jumps and some sprint work. lots of respect for joe d. but it is NOT a program for team sport athletes imo. lifting “max effort” year round is a terrible idea if you’re an athlete. i’m sorry thats just the way it is.[/quote]

I don’t know where you got the idea that Joe D says that athletes should do ME work year round, but that simply isn’t true.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:

btw, the video looks like a 185 pound guy working with 135. i also remember joe d. saying he had the kid doing jumps, ghr, back raises, etc. before he implemented box squats.
[/quote]

I’m not sure where you got this. I’d be surprised if this kid could do a single ghr. And note, the kid does a set of 5… likely with around 80% of his max.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
while i disagree with a lot of what joe d. puts out there (strongman, year round max effort lifting, over emphasis on prowler, sled, etc) looks like the man is right on here. i should also add i’ve never trained there and only know what he does based on the info he puts out…no disrespect to the guy
[/quote]

We’ll have to agree to disagree on our opinions of Defranco. Again, if you think he recommends doing ME work year round, then your impression of him is mistaken.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
as far as squat depth, for athletes i believe proper depth is the point where the lumbar spine begins to round. for taller guys with certain leverages this is usually somewhat above parallel. any depth below that, in my opinion, becomes unneeded based on a cost-benefit analysis.
[/quote]

Agreed, but I’m not sure why you didn’t just say this (squat until just before back rounds) right away.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
of course jumps and sprints are fine. that’s what his sport is! lol. this whole idea that you can get faster and jump higher just by improving max strength is, from my experiences, completely false
[/quote]

Agreed as well.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
as for the bodyweight work, consider this: if the man is cranking out the reps on bw exercises, his 1rm in squat/bench will improve but not vice versa.
[/quote]

This is just dead wrong. The opposite is in fact true. High rep work will do very little to improve a 1rm. Name me one powerlifter who does sets of high rep bodyweight squats or pistols to improve their squat.

Since their goal is solely to improve their 1rm, I assume they would do this if it works. Conversely, someone who squats 3x their bodyweight will be able to do far more pistols than someone who squats 1x their bodyweight.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
in my opinion, getting a young athlete to master his/her bodyweight to get stronger is easier and less stressful (to the body/organs) than jumping into the weights. gotta walk before you can run!
[/quote]

Hence the sprints and jumps we agree on. Bodyweight exercises can also be included IF the resistance is appropriate for the task at hand and as a warmup.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
also, if you know how/when to program certain things it is important for the athlete to be able to absorb and reapply force rapidly that is best accomplished using bodyweight. after all, in sports, this force is usually the athlete’s bodyweight!

this is kind of where the opposite applies as most athletes will be too weak to do this with their bwt and will have to begin with empty/lightly loaded barbells.
[/quote]

The OP isn’t using an empty barbell though. He can squat 190. Again, sprints and jumps are a good idea. However, being stronger will improve the athlete’s ability to control their own bodyweight. Bodyweight exercises will only improve maximum strength if they are an appropriate level of resistance.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
also, playing basketball will not optimally prepare him for the games, season!
[/quote]

I never said that.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
very specific things must be done here to accomplish that.
[/quote]

agreed.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
and i dont believe skills are outside of the context as the end goal is to make him a good bball player!
[/quote]

The thread is about improving vertical jump.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:

btw that is a great list and i agree with the premise though not with the application. i now believe proper “conditioning” should (and can) be performed year round.
[/quote]

If by conditioning you mean suicides and/or aerobic conditioning, then I don’t agree. A base should be maintained during the offseason while the athlete focuses on increasing strength and power. This base can be maintained simply by playing a couple of times per week.

Then, a couple of months out the athlete can start to focus on getting into “game shape” while doing maintenance work in the gym. If the athlete has a decent base, and hasn’t been sitting on their but all summer, it doesn’t take long to get into game shape.

[SameOldG]

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
SameOldG wrote:
Well I’m doing a program I kinda made up from alot of info from various sources that’s out there for vertical jump and power/strength gains, and I have completed 8 weeks of an expected 15 weeks. I think the best thing to do is before starting, assess yourself and what you are working with, then design a program around that.

I did that and I’ll post my stats before I started this 15 week program and currently (8 weeks along).I would say that I was really weak in the strength department and slightly above average in reactive ability

Stats about 2 weeks before I started the program
Height - 6’0"
Weight - 175lbs
Standing vertical - 24-26"
Running Vertical - 28-30"
Squat Max - 275lbs x1

As of Yesterday
Height - 6’-0"
Weight - 175 lbs
Standing vertical 30-32"
Running Vertical - 35-36"
Squat Max - 300lbs x2

Hope that helps, with that being said, I think the most important thing is to balance intensity with volume and recovery.In my book you should always feel pretty fresh before any training session if your going for maximum gains in Vertical Jump/Speed. But when I’m finished I’ll post a thread with my full results over the 15 weeks.

those are great improvements man. good luck and i luck forward to seeing your post when you’re done. are you training for a sport or just for jumping ability?
[/quote]

I play football (soccer) and sometimes basketball but mostly recreational. I would say what drives me most is to see how fast or explosive I can be, who knows if I get really fast I might just try some amateur sprinting.

[duck_dodger23]

i base the year round ME lifting based on joe d.’ s articles

(http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm). 3 weeks ME and a 1 week deload is year round ME lifting.

i didn’t mean high rep work and remember we’ll dealing with a bball player not a powerlifter. a lot of things will increase his strength but at this level doing stuff w/body weight is IMO likely the easiest way and potentially accomplishes the most in improving his sporting form.

btw, you have my force training/absorption bit a little mixed up. i’m not sure if my original writing was very clear.

the “conditioning” methods i subscribe too are completely different than what you describe hence their appropriate application to the year round training cycle. to be honest, phrases like “building a base” and “game shape” mean nothing to me.

how are you quantifying these in terms of vo2 max, max hr, anarth, aerobic capactiy/power, etc., etc? The athlete must train to acquire the appropriate levels needed for success in his/her sport.

the best way to do this is figure out what these attributes are at the highest level of the sport and go from there

[actionjeff]

Good thread, thanks

so, what if you are very strong for your vertical?

my quads/calves are strong and my high bar squat is strong but I can’t jump for shit. I’m 90kg and 6’01/2. I’ve been doing olympic lifts for a couple months on and off but aren’t great them yet obviously. My hips are very strong as well, I pull more weight sumo than conventional.

The only thing I can think of is that my hamstrings might be weak and I’ve never found a good way to target them, they don’t even seem to get worked in standard deadlifts

is it just weak hamstrings, a lack of explosive strength, or what?

[forensic91]

This thread is very good so far thanks for the advice. Though this also shows why I get confused. I mean one person says to do WS4SB and another not to? BTW I have the Kelly Baggett book now, so should I start one of the programs in the book? Keep the good info coming btw.

[jtrinsey]

[quote]forensic91 wrote:
This thread is very good so far thanks for the advice. Though this also shows why I get confused. I mean one person says to do WS4SB and another not to? BTW I have the Kelly Baggett book now, so should I start one of the programs in the book? Keep the good info coming btw.[/quote]

Bottom line: Yes, do one of the programs in the book. Keep reading and learning but most importantly, DO.

Do the tests he describes in the book, but I would suggest starting with the novice weights program along with the beginner plyos as a start. I think you would get a lot out of that.

[duck_dodger23]

actionjeff: post up your numbers on the vj, squat, broad jump, etc. and let’s see if we can figure out what’s up with you.

there is somewhat of an argument on how much of a role the hamstrings play in a vj. my take is who cares you sure as hell need them to be strong to do everything else! lol

honestly though, i don’t think they play that much of a role based on some empirical observations. for myself, i am very proficient at jumping as when i was a kid i would literally spend all day jumping hundreds of jumps a day in every shape and form imaginable.

i now sport some freakily developed glutes and upper quads. however, my hammies are pathetic (though improving). that should tell you something. i have also noticed this same trend with volleyball players. they often have large butts and thighs but not much hammies. so, take that for what it’s worth.

forensic91: i hear you on the confusion, man. at the end of the day you just have to take the information provided, figure out your strengths and weaknesses and plan accordingly. think long term. also, keep searching and reading i promise there is tons of incredible information out there from very smart people!

i would say to remember that you are not like anyone else. you have your own strengths and weaknesses and while program X might work for someone that doesnt mean it will work for you. i guess that’s the danger in writing programs for the masses. also keep in mind you’re a basketball player not a vertical jumper and train accordingly. you’ve got to be able to run and jump your ass off for 48 minutes, twice a week, for 12-15 weeks. What position do you play?

[actionjeff]

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
actionjeff: post up your numbers on the vj, squat, broad jump, etc. and let’s see if we can figure out what’s up with you.

there is somewhat of an argument on how much of a role the hamstrings play in a vj. my take is who cares you sure as hell need them to be strong to do everything else! lol

honestly though, i don’t think they play that much of a role based on some empirical observations. for myself, i am very proficient at jumping as when i was a kid i would literally spend all day jumping hundreds of jumps a day in every shape and form imaginable. i now sport some freakily developed glutes and upper quads. however, my hammies are pathetic (though improving). that should tell you something. i have also noticed this same trend with volleyball players. they often have large butts and thighs but not much hammies. so, take that for what it’s worth.

[/quote]

I thought hamstrings played a huge role in sprinting and jumping ability? anyway without a DOUBT my hamstrings are my weak link. For example I can’t do a BW glute ham raise when I had a friend hold my ankles down and gave it a try.

vj is 16.5 (so 15-18) inches tested sloppily.

I didn’t do much jumping or sprinting when I was younger. I went a good 6-7 years from playing QB in middle school (=no athleticism required lol) of not doing much exercise so my conditioning was weak till recently, I’m sure this plays a role in this.

full squat (high bar) is 135kg but I have 140kg minimum as this wasn’t tested recently. Clean and jerk is 90kg, deadlift 170kg 2 months ago, sumo deadlift 195kg recently. I know these aren’t huge numbers but I haven’t been training long and these are much stronger than the average person who is jumping higher than me and running faster!

I was playing bball with a friend who is much weaker than me and also 4 inches shorter and he was jumping higher than me and asking me where my big vertical was, lol, it was embaressing!

lmk what you think…

-Jeff

[CoolColJ]

actionjeff - jump more often, jump a lot and jump with high quality reps, with good rest between each, and with max effort

nobody became good at anything without a ton of practise, perfect practise that is

[duck_dodger23]

completely echo what coolcolj is with a small caveat. i’d start of with a high volume of jumps (like 150+ per session) to prepare your tendons/ligaments and get your muscles used to that type of activity. you will see improvement in the vj from this. start doing some short sprints too

from then move on to more complicated/higher intensity jumps waving volume/intensity and all that fun jazz.

think of fan ways to test your vj and sly like jumping up to touch something hanging from the ceiling, broad jumping over a line on the ground, etc.

btw, you mentioned oly lifting, are you looking to compete in weightlifting or any other support or just interested in being a “weekend warrior” ??

[actionjeff]

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
completely echo what coolcolj is with a small caveat. i’d start of with a high volume of jumps (like 150+ per session) to prepare your tendons/ligaments and get your muscles used to that type of activity. you will see improvement in the vj from this. start doing some short sprints too

from then move on to more complicated/higher intensity jumps waving volume/intensity and all that fun jazz.

think of fan ways to test your vj and sly like jumping up to touch something hanging from the ceiling, broad jumping over a line on the ground, etc.

btw, you mentioned oly lifting, are you looking to compete in weightlifting or any other support or just interested in being a “weekend warrior” ??[/quote]

yeah eventually. Thanks for the advice, I should definitely be doing stuff like that. Just jumping and moving, a lot more. Weightlifting and other training has improved my athleticism but not to the level I had hoped for at this point, although I am certainly intermediate at best.

My powerlifting lifts are much stronger than my o-lifts but the learning curve in weightlifting is steep and technique lags behind strength. I just enjoy learning new skills and building strength for now, I don’t think specialization is important at the moment.

[OBoile]

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
i base the year round ME lifting based on joe d.’ s articles

(http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm). 3 weeks ME and a 1 week deload is year round ME lifting.
[/quote]
This argument is pointless, but perhaps you should read the link you posted. Specifically the Strength & Speed Template and the section on In-Season Training.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
i didn’t mean high rep work and remember we’ll dealing with a bball player not a powerlifter. a lot of things will increase his strength but at this level doing stuff w/body weight is IMO likely the easiest way and potentially accomplishes the most in improving his sporting form.
[/quote]
I don’t know where you get this powerlifting idea from. We are all well aware of the fact that we are refering to the training of a basketball player.

Quite simply: for most movements, using only the bodyweight as resistance will do little to build strength in all but the weakest individual. Bodyweight movements offer no choice wrt loading. Unless the individuals bodyweight happens to be in the correct range strength gains will not be optimal.

Dynamic exercises (jumps, sprints etc.) can use bodyweight as the resistance with the goal being to improve RFD and the like.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
btw, you have my force training/absorption bit a little mixed up. i’m not sure if my original writing was very clear.
[/quote]
I don’t think I mixed anything up. My point simply is that a stronger athlete will, all other things being equal, be better at absorbing/producing force.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
the “conditioning” methods i subscribe too are completely different than what you describe hence their appropriate application to the year round training cycle. to be honest, phrases like “building a base” and “game shape” mean nothing to me.

[/quote]
Basketball is a sport that stresses all three energy systems. I’m being completely un-technical with refering to “conditioning” as training the intermediate (non-oxidative glycolytic) and long-term (oxidative) energy systems. Quite simply, all three need to be trained at certain times of the year. During most of the off season the short-term (ATP-CP) energy system should recieve the bulk of the training attention (weights, plyos etc.) while a base level is maintained in the intermediate and long-term systems (in simple terms, play basketball a couple of times per week and you’ll be fine).

Then, as the season approaches, switch the training to focus more these two energy systems while doing maintenance work on the short-term system. Reduce volume on the weights/sprints and jumps and add in interval work (200m works well for basketball, as well as suicides) and some longer cardio work.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
how are you quantifying these in terms of vo2 max, max hr, anarth, aerobic capactiy/power, etc., etc? The athlete must train to acquire the appropriate levels needed for success in his/her sport.
the best way to do this is figure out what these attributes are at the highest level of the sport and go from there[/quote]

I don’t have access to any device which measures this data so I can’t give an informed answer. I highly doubt any highschool student will be able to measure these either, so I’m not sure what relevance measurements like vo2 max have in this discussion.

[OBoile]

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
forensic91 wrote:
This thread is very good so far thanks for the advice. Though this also shows why I get confused. I mean one person says to do WS4SB and another not to? BTW I have the Kelly Baggett book now, so should I start one of the programs in the book? Keep the good info coming btw.

Bottom line: Yes, do one of the programs in the book. Keep reading and learning but most importantly, DO.

Do the tests he describes in the book, but I would suggest starting with the novice weights program along with the beginner plyos as a start. I think you would get a lot out of that.
[/quote]

Agreed. While both are good choices, Kelly does all the planning for you, so it removes any guesswork.

[duck_dodger23]

I know Joe D. recommends laying off in-season and what not. However, if you’ll notice, the basic weekly template has two MAX EFFORT days. For sport athletes, this stuff is not appropriate for more than 3-4 weeks a time even in the off-season.

You’re still quantifying strength in terms of 1rm on the powerlifts. Like I said, for anybody but a powerlifter those numbers are meaningless. Say I don’t perform bench for two months and use a variety of other methods to increase upper body power. at the end of that block, i might perform a plyo push up, and if i had the tech to measure, i might be pushing off the ground several inches higher than before.

however, this gain in power might not manifest itself in bench 1rm for a variety of reasons (tech, etc.) Suggesting that you cannot develop strength/size of the skeletal muscles or cause CNS or organ adaptations by performing exercises with only the weight of your body is, quite honestly, laughable.

Our man squats under 200 pounds. He will get stronger by jumping. Think about a squat jump, he is squatting and flinging 160 lbs into the air with as much power as he has against the force of gravity.

Good to see you have a better understanding of energy systems than before, and bball is definitely complicated to train for in that it is aerobic-anaerobic-alactic/lactic. However, we disagree in that i would prefer to establish increases in aerobic capacity/power in the initial stages of the off season and then the next level progressively peaking the athletes alactic power come season while still maintaining the other systems. what makes this ideal, imo, is the heavily restorative of certain aerobic programming.

especially when that is compared to the high stress of a basketball game as the pick up bball (which by nature may or may not serve to improve athletes skill or cause any proper physical adaptations) would become the primary stressor in the programming, limiting your other work. i just don’t see how recommending pick up bball hoping for a specific adaptation in an athlete is wise. i think rec-sports are probably most suitable in the initial (restorative) block(s) of the off-season, and i don’t think i would ever instruct an athlete to play rec-ball in a sport he/she competes in.

there are certain formulas for getting approximations of these properties that anybody with access to a hr monitor would be able to use. if you live near a university or hospital that does cardiac research i’m sure you could hook something up (i did). i will agree with you that, unless you have an omegawave or similar tech, these tests are highly invasive on the athlete and therefore would be somewhat impractical. still would be wise to try to collect as much data as possible but you’d want to do it in 12-16 spans.

[jtrinsey]

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
i don’t think i would ever instruct an athlete to play rec-ball in a sport he/she competes in.
[/quote]

The problem is that when you work in the real world, kids DO play their sport year round and there’s nothing you are going to do about it. Summer leagues, club ball, camps, working with coaches in the off-season, etc. etc. These may not seem to be optimal, but for a young athlete are important to fit in with the team, earn the trust of high school coaches, be seen by college scouts, etc.

Good thoughts though, you’ve made some great posts. I appreciate you taking the time to write down your thoughts and share them.

[OBoile]

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
I know Joe D. recommends laying off in-season and what not. However, if you’ll notice, the basic weekly template has two MAX EFFORT days. For sport athletes, this stuff is not appropriate for more than 3-4 weeks a time even in the off-season.
[/quote]
I guess that is your opinion. You are entitled to it.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
You’re still quantifying strength in terms of 1rm on the powerlifts.
[/quote]
I’m not sure where you get this from.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
Like I said, for anybody but a powerlifter those numbers are meaningless.

[/quote] Not true. These “numbers” provide an easily quantifiable way to track progress. I find it odd that you would say this yet suggest an athlete track something like vo2 max.
By your logic, vo2 max is of no use except to someone doing a survey. They don’t award medals to the runner with the highest vo2 max, the medal goes to whomever runs the fastest so why should anyone track it?

The only real difference is that weight room numbers are much easier to measure. If my squat goes up by 50 lbs, then I know I’m stronger. I don’t need a university, or a heart rate monitor to check this either.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
Say I don’t perform bench for two months and use a variety of other methods to increase upper body power. at the end of that block, i might perform a plyo push up, and if i had the tech to measure, i might be pushing off the ground several inches higher than before.

however, this gain in power might not manifest itself in bench 1rm for a variety of reasons (tech, etc.)
[/quote]
True, however you are still using an arbitrary choice of measurement. You could do a variety of exercises to increase upper-body power an not see an improvment in a plyo push up as well.
Tests for progress should be chosen for relevance as well as ease of measurement.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
Suggesting that you cannot develop strength/size of the skeletal muscles or cause CNS or organ adaptations by performing exercises with only the weight of your body is, quite honestly, laughable.
[/quote]
Suggesting that having bodyweight exercises as the focus of a strength training plan is the BEST option is equally laughable.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
Our man squats under 200 pounds. He will get stronger by jumping. Think about a squat jump, he is squatting and flinging 160 lbs into the air with as much power as he has against the force of gravity.
[/quote]
That is super. Hence, squat jumps are something that can be used in conjunction with squats where he will lift ~170# plus the majority of his bodyweight.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
Good to see you have a better understanding of energy systems than before,
[/quote]
Than before when? My understanding has not improved as a result of this discussion.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
and bball is definitely complicated to train for in that it is aerobic-anaerobic-alactic/lactic. However, we disagree in that i would prefer to establish increases in aerobic capacity/power in the initial stages of the off season and then the next level progressively peaking the athletes alactic power come season while still maintaining the other systems. what makes this ideal, imo, is the heavily restorative of certain aerobic programming.
[/quote]
You will not be able to maintain a sufficient level of aerobic fitness following this methodology. The time/effort/resources requried to improve alactic power is far greater than the time/effort/resources required to maintain it and doing recovery level aerobic work will not provide the level of aerobic/non-oxidative glycolytic fitness required to play basketball at a high level.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
especially when that is compared to the high stress of a basketball game as the pick up bball (which by nature may or may not serve to improve athletes skill or cause any proper physical adaptations) would become the primary stressor in the programming, limiting your other work. i just don’t see how recommending pick up bball hoping for a specific adaptation in an athlete is wise. i think rec-sports are probably most suitable in the initial (restorative) block(s) of the off-season, and i don’t think i would ever instruct an athlete to play rec-ball in a sport he/she competes in.
[/quote]
Come back to reality man. Few if any pros/NCAA ball players would have the discipline to give up playing pick up hoops even if they thought this was the best approach. I highly doubt someone in highschool is going to do forgo playing the sport they love to spend time doing other boring stuff.
Not to mention, most players get good by actually playing the game. Is ideal? No. Realistic? Yes.

[quote]duck_dodger23 wrote:
there are certain formulas for getting approximations of these properties that anybody with access to a hr monitor would be able to use. if you live near a university or hospital that does cardiac research i’m sure you could hook something up (i did). i will agree with you that, unless you have an omegawave or similar tech, these tests are highly invasive on the athlete and therefore would be somewhat impractical. still would be wise to try to collect as much data as possible but you’d want to do it in 12-16 spans.
[/quote]

There are easier ways too:
Time yourself running over a specific distance. Generally speaking, if your times are going down, you are improving. It doesn’t have to be rocket science.

[duck_dodger23]

jtrinsey: No doubt. i’d add also add that i would (and do) count in-season tournament/travel play as the same as school season. the thing is the athletes i work with are at a level where pick-up games in their sport are no longer beneficial, and, to be honest, they have no interest in playing rec. their words not mine.

by my own admission i am no expert and i would agree completely that for players of lesser skill rec-play would be very beneficial. i don’t try to mess with tech/skill except for doing very specific stuff at certain times. and, i only do things i know will helps and these exercises are always within the framework of their own tech. i’m fortunate that the athletes i work with are very skilled in their sports. thanks for the props, and i’ve enjoyed your posts as well.

oboile: good discussion here, afraid this is going to be my last post on this topic as we seem to be spinning our wheels a little bit. however, i will concede “the last word” to you lol. if there’s other things you’d like to discuss i’m more than willing, my man.

i’ll address a few things and everything else we can “agree to disagree.” though, i will add that everything i say is based on extensive research into the best texts i can get ahold of from several countries that i have had time to read so far , my own experiences- positive and negative- as well as trial and error. i also learn every day as this is an enjoyable hobby of mine. i have no allegiance to anything and am always looking for “a better way.”

things like vo2 max, max hr, hr @ anarth, aerobic index, etc. have no technical/psychological element unlike bench,squat, dead. these can’t be cheated or done with bad tech so hence their exact nature. i also will state that improvements in the areas appropriate to sport with these qualities, imo, will lead to much greater success in a sport than improvements in 1rm.

i believe that there is a time and place for everything. why lift weights until the athlete is ready? i believe in exhausting all basic resources before introducing new stimuli. that way each method you introduce will have the greatest possible effect and the athlete will be prepared for the stress (less chance of injury). i have no allegiance to bodyweight exercises i just think too many kids start benching/squatting too soon! i want the best results with the least amount of effort.

as far as the aerobic deal, the methods here are very, very specific and there are different guidelines for every person. this is nothing i have developed and, to be honest, i do not understand what all is going on. i just know the results! you’ll just have to trust me in terms of their usefulness lol

you’re right it doesnt have to be rocket science, but the higher the level of the athlete the harder it is to make them better. that’s where things get (and warrant) complication and specific year-round planning.

[forensic91]

Wow, this just keeps more and more complicated ;). Btw good posts everyone. I think I might start the beginner/novice programs in Kelly Baggets book. What do you guys think of that?

Also I play forward/power forward. I know basket-ball is not all about vertical leap but I think increasing it seen as my current vertical is weak, would be very beneficial to my game, especially in the rebounding.

Getting back on the programs. Should I start by only doing the pylo, then after I’ve done the pylo adding in the weights? I’m a bit confused on what to do?

[jtrinsey]

[quote]forensic91 wrote:
Wow, this just keeps more and more complicated ;). Btw good posts everyone. I think I might start the beginner/novice programs in Kelly Baggets book. What do you guys think of that?

Also I play forward/power forward. I know basket-ball is not all about vertical leap but I think increasing it seen as my current vertical is weak, would be very beneficial to my game, especially in the rebounding.

Getting back on the programs. Should I start by only doing the pylo, then after I’ve done the pylo adding in the weights? I’m a bit confused on what to do?[/quote]

HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE I CAN GIVE YOU. READ THIS FIRST:

Start training NOW. Well, maybe not if you are reading this after midnight but shit, even so get down and do a bunch of pushups and situps. If you read this post, and are still confused and you are sitting around at your house tomorrow, just go get a basketball and go do some athletic stuff until you are very tired.

Go run, jump, do some pushups, anything that gets you moving and exerting. Any hard work will get you somewhere and is a start. Don’t spend another week or even another day trying to get the “perfect” program. Start out by working hard and then learn to work smart, not the other way around.

END PREACHING

Do the “Novice Weights” and either the beginner or novice plyo programs together; they are made to be done at the same time.

An example he uses in the book is to do:

Monday- Novice Weights session 1
Tuesday- Rest
Wednesday- Beginner Plyos workout
Thursday- Rest
Friday- Novice Weights session 2
Saturday/Sunday- Rest

So you train 3 times per week, two of them are in the weightroom and the other you can do in the weightroom (if there is room to jump around), on the court or even outside in your backyard.

The three times per week option is good when you are just starting out especially if you are playing pickup ball, doing off-season workouts with your coach or just going in the gym and working on your game by yourself, which you should be doing a couple times per week.

If you do those as outlined in the book, that will take you until school starts. If you have any questions, ask and I’ll try to help you out as soon as possible.

[SameOldG]

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
forensic91 wrote:
Wow, this just keeps more and more complicated ;). Btw good posts everyone. I think I might start the beginner/novice programs in Kelly Baggets book. What do you guys think of that?

Also I play forward/power forward. I know basket-ball is not all about vertical leap but I think increasing it seen as my current vertical is weak, would be very beneficial to my game, especially in the rebounding.

Getting back on the programs. Should I start by only doing the pylo, then after I’ve done the pylo adding in the weights? I’m a bit confused on what to do?

HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE I CAN GIVE YOU. READ THIS FIRST:

Start training NOW. Well, maybe not if you are reading this after midnight but shit, even so get down and do a bunch of pushups and situps. If you read this post, and are still confused and you are sitting around at your house tomorrow, just go get a basketball and go do some athletic stuff until you are very tired.

Go run, jump, do some pushups, anything that gets you moving and exerting. Any hard work will get you somewhere and is a start. Don’t spend another week or even another day trying to get the “perfect” program. Start out by working hard and then learn to work smart, not the other way around.

END PREACHING

Do the “Novice Weights” and either the beginner or novice plyo programs together; they are made to be done at the same time.

An example he uses in the book is to do:

Monday- Novice Weights session 1
Tuesday- Rest
Wednesday- Beginner Plyos workout
Thursday- Rest
Friday- Novice Weights session 2
Saturday/Sunday- Rest

So you train 3 times per week, two of them are in the weightroom and the other you can do in the weightroom (if there is room to jump around), on the court or even outside in your backyard.

The three times per week option is good when you are just starting out especially if you are playing pickup ball, doing off-season workouts with your coach or just going in the gym and working on your game by yourself, which you should be doing a couple times per week.

If you do those as outlined in the book, that will take you until school starts. If you have any questions, ask and I’ll try to help you out as soon as possible.[/quote]

I think your right on the money with this post. Im doin a program very similar to this, alternating weights and plyos (2 weights and 1 plyo one week and 2 plyos 1 weights the following week) and it looks like I’ve gained 6" in 8 weeks so far. I would say give it a shot