I read lots of articles about weekly ideal volume and abs training.
The majority of these these say that for small muscles, like abs, 30-60 reps is the ideal volume. I train twice a week, therefore, 3 sets of 5-10 reps for each workout should be the ideal volume…
So I am wondering why I often find abs routines with something like 9 sets of 10-15 reps ??
Which is the ideal volume for each workout(to gain visual impact and strenght) for who trains abs twice a week?
Why would you only work abs twice a week? And if you are going to work them only twice a week, why wouldn’t you train them like any other muscle group needing focused work? 3x5 twice a week is ridiculous. If you’re going to train them, actually train them!
Besides there are other muscle groups to worry about optimal volume for much before ab training
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Why would you only work abs twice a week? And if you are going to work them only twice a week, why wouldn’t you train them like any other muscle group needing focused work? 3x5 twice a week is ridiculous. If you’re going to train them, actually train them!
Besides there are other muscle groups to worry about optimal volume for much before ab training[/quote]
So what would you suggest? The OP work them out 3x a week with moderate to high volume like any other muscle group?
Koing
I train abs after legs workout twice a week and I think the frequency is enough for who trains abs at high intensity.
I said “should” be the weekly optimal volume if we treat it as a any other small muscle like biceps, as I read in some articles.(actually I do about 6 sets of abs exercises)
But, in the opposite way, I don’t understand abs routine with 9-12 set of abs three times a week; so the question is again: Which is the ideal volume for each abs workout(to gain visual impact and strenght) for who trains abs twice a week?
[quote]Jnatural wrote:
But, in the opposite way, I don’t understand abs routine with 9-12 set of abs three times a week; so the question is again: Which is the ideal volume for each abs workout(to gain visual impact and strenght) for who trains abs twice a week?
[/quote]
The ideal volume is whatever gets YOU the results you want.
sure,this principle works for everything… but there aren’t general rules (also for the abs training) to obtain the maximum in the shortest time??
This is a dumb thread. Pick a number of sets and go till failure. I believe abs are one of those muscles you shouldn’t do till you hit X reps but should be based upon feel. There is a huge difference in showing the muscle (low fat %) and BUILDING the muscle. There is no magical rep range for any muscle.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid. Rule to live by. (not that your stupid OP!)
Don’t overthink these things…
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Why would you only work abs twice a week? And if you are going to work them only twice a week, why wouldn’t you train them like any other muscle group needing focused work? 3x5 twice a week is ridiculous. If you’re going to train them, actually train them!
Besides there are other muscle groups to worry about optimal volume for much before ab training[/quote]
Call me silly but once a week, 3 sets of 4 reps.
I got really serious about ab training at some point, and found that I was overworking them. As I got weaker on the movement, I increased volume… This turned out to be a recipe for a lot of physical therapy because I woke up one morning, and could not contract my abs to even lift my head off the pillow.
In my mind, you “work” your abs every time you tighten your core ~ which is a ton during a typical workout program.
Bottom line for me: I rarely train them directly, and never with any intensity ~~~~ maybe 25 crunches and 25 knee ups a 2 times per week.
@ Doublelung84 ~~~~~ Nice avatar. I’m a Bow Hunter too!
[quote]
@ Doublelung84 ~~~~~ Nice avatar. I’m a Bow Hunter too! [/quote]
Thanks! I can still pull a 65 lb.er back with ease.
[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
[quote]
@ Doublelung84 ~~~~~ Nice avatar. I’m a Bow Hunter too! [/quote]
Thanks! I can still pull a 65 lb.er back with ease.[/quote]
BTW, is that a single cam Bowtech Tomkat in your avatar? If so, it is the same bow I have.
[quote]neoi78 wrote:
This is a dumb thread. Pick a number of sets and go till failure. I believe abs are one of those muscles you shouldn’t do till you hit X reps but should be based upon feel. There is a huge difference in showing the muscle (low fat %) and BUILDING the muscle. There is no magical rep range for any muscle.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid. Rule to live by. (not that your stupid OP!)
Don’t overthink these things…[/quote]
I know this isn’t the smartest thread in the forum :D. I just wonder why there are contraries opinions around.
[quote]Koing wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Why would you only work abs twice a week? And if you are going to work them only twice a week, why wouldn’t you train them like any other muscle group needing focused work? 3x5 twice a week is ridiculous. If you’re going to train them, actually train them!
Besides there are other muscle groups to worry about optimal volume for much before ab training[/quote]
So what would you suggest? The OP work them out 3x a week with moderate to high volume like any other muscle group?
Koing[/quote]
I was posting on my phone so I got lazy, sorry. Yes, I think as with any other muscle group the more frequently you train the less volume you need and vice versa. If you’re only going to train them 2x a week then the volume should be higher as with any other muscle group you want to visually emphasize.
There are various ways to train but if we take the “X sets of exercise per week for Y muscle group” approach then the same guidelines would apply IMO–12 sets of exercise a week as a starting point, some who thrive on volume will go higher, just like anything. They’re just guidelines after all. People who do 9 sets 3x a week are fine too. Higher volume like I mentioned, or they do a lot of wussy things like basic bodyweight planks. You’ll need higher volume if your intensity is low obviously, and that’s why you have to do a million bloody push-ups daily/weekly if you don’t bench press heavy (witness the volumes and frequencies on any bodyweight training approach, like, ever), which is probably what confused the OP. If you’re training with heavy weights, then you really don’t need to do 30 sets of ab work a week. But regardless you should treat it as just another muscle group in terms of intensity and volume.
Especially if it’s a weak point or you want to specialize (I don’t really think many people need to specialize in ab training, that makes me laugh). But if you DID specialize, you’d up the volume and frequency just like on any other specialization program. Possibly–gasp!–to
even 9-10 sets 3x a week.
It’s all context, most of the same rules apply as with any other group.
[quote]iplan wrote:
[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
[quote]
@ Doublelung84 ~~~~~ Nice avatar. I’m a Bow Hunter too! [/quote]
Thanks! I can still pull a 65 lb.er back with ease.[/quote]
BTW, is that a single cam Bowtech Tomkat in your avatar? If so, it is the same bow I have.[/quote]
Bear Element. Got it 7 years ago new. Put more than one down with it!
[quote]Jnatural wrote:
[quote]neoi78 wrote:
This is a dumb thread. Pick a number of sets and go till failure. I believe abs are one of those muscles you shouldn’t do till you hit X reps but should be based upon feel. There is a huge difference in showing the muscle (low fat %) and BUILDING the muscle. There is no magical rep range for any muscle.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid. Rule to live by. (not that your stupid OP!)
Don’t overthink these things…[/quote]
I know this isn’t the smartest thread in the forum :D. I just wonder why there are contraries opinions around. [/quote]
Because different things work for different people.
“You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else”
Bro, just hit abs at the end of your workout every other day. I alternate those and calves. I do 3-5 sets, usually supersetted. Hanging leg raises, ab wheel, and cable crunches are about all I’ve found as movements that are worth my time.
[quote]neoi78 wrote:
This is a dumb thread. Pick a number of sets and go till failure. I believe abs are one of those muscles you shouldn’t do till you hit X reps but should be based upon feel. There is a huge difference in showing the muscle (low fat %) and BUILDING the muscle. There is no magical rep range for any muscle.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid. Rule to live by. (not that your stupid OP!)
Don’t overthink these things…[/quote]
But what is OPTIMAL!!!
I got my best results by training abs old school bodybuilding style. do them at the beginning of.your.workout for.a.warm up every time you train. I like.one.high rep set of upper abs, lower abs, obliques and low back. wgen I say high reos I mean 35-100. this type of training was the status quo for golden aged bodybuilders and produced some fantastic abs. training the lower back with similar volume aims intensity helps perverting injury.
ex WORKOUT A: decline crunch, vertical bench knee raise, DB side bend, hyperextensions.
WORKOUT B: cable crunch, cable side bend, reverse crunch, light weight Romanian DB deadlift.
all moves done for one high rep set with as little rest ad possible between exercises.
IMHO abs demand very different training than other muscle groups, so skip the basic x number reps per workout thing and just di what has worked for so many.
Personally I have found doing Pulldown Abs then Hanging Leg Raises twice a week to work very well. Heavy reps though, usually around 8. Going to failure doesn’t seem to do alot in my opinion.