OK so the above photo shows, I guess, the ideal clean grip with upper arms parallel to the ground.
The only way I can personally achieve this without decapitating myself (and no I don’t have forward head posture) is by really REALLY rolling my shoulders forward and protracting the very upper part of my scapula. In fact, in doing this I feel a huge upper back stretch over the areas of I guess what would be T1-T5. I do not think it is a wrist issue with me and I feel no stretch in my triceps.
I think my upper arms may be short compared to my lower arms- so when I get into a really good clean grip WITHOUT a bar, my wrists end up in line with my ears.
Is it possible for someone to just not be built to have a “perfect” clean grip? Or am I misunderstanding something about what my shoulders should be doing? I read they are supposed to “rotate upward” but I do not see any sort of shoulder rounding or shrugging in the photos of good clean grips.
I am doing front squats and have been trying to keep my shoulders back & down. If I do this, my arms look more like those in the photo in the next post & I think this guy is a famous lifter.
[quote]Reconstruction wrote:
OK so the above photo shows, I guess, the ideal clean grip with upper arms parallel to the ground.[/quote]
I think you’re confusing two different-but-related things. There’s the rack position, which is what the guy in your first pic is showing, and then there’s a clean grip, which is how/where you hold the bar when starting the clean. And actually, keep in mind the the second picture you posted is a weightlifter obviously at a competition, so he’s going to press (jerk) the bar overhead as soon as he stands up. He’s not just doing a front squat in that pic.
If you’re doing cleans for multiple reps, I don’t find it as effective to get into the full rack position at the midpoint of each rep. In other words, if I’m going to front squat for a set of 5, my rack position will be slightly different than if I was doing a set of 5 cleans.
With the front squat “version”, I find it’s easier to let the bar roll towards the fingertips (as shown in your first pic), really just barely helping to keep the bar in place, and my upper arms are more parallel to the ground (they have to be or else the bar would fall).
With repetitive cleans, I keep a bit more of a grip on the bar and the upper arms don’t come quite as high, because this lets me complete the midpoint of the rep feeling solid while still letting me transition smoothly into the descent.
Keep in mind, for whatever it’s worth, I’m 6’2" and my arms are probably a bit longer than yours. Your individual frame is always going to have a say in figuring out your “ideal” technique for a given exercise. I’m also a big believer than when it comes to cleans, “good enough” form is good enough. If you don’t plan on competing in the Olympic lifts, then treat them like any other exercise - learn safe, solid technique that allows progress and results without increasing the risk of injury.
[quote]The only way I can personally achieve this without decapitating myself (and no I don’t have forward head posture) is by really REALLY rolling my shoulders forward and protracting the very upper part of my scapula. In fact, in doing this I feel a huge upper back stretch over the areas of I guess what would be T1-T5. I do not think it is a wrist issue with me and I feel no stretch in my triceps.
I think my upper arms may be short compared to my lower arms- so when I get into a really good clean grip WITHOUT a bar, my wrists end up in line with my ears. [/quote]
Can you touch your fingertips to your shoulders while your elbows are pointed forwards? I’d also check yourself on this stretch:
Can you touch your fingertips to your shoulders while your elbows are pointed forwards? …
Just to be clear, you’re looking into this all for the purpose of front squatting, not necessarily doing cleans, correct?
[/quote]
ok I just wanted to say thank you Chris for helping me, it will take me a bit to digest all this. I will likely come back later with questions.
Just to answer a couple of yours, my problem with my arms is not that I cannot touch my shoulders like you asked but my fingertips extend even further back than my back!!! (like about 1/2 inch-) That is why I joke that Oly bar will decapitate me! And no, I am not hunched over or have forward head posture.
To answer the second question, my idea is to practice the front squat and overhead press separately- for strength and form. Then, when I feel confident with my technique on these I would like to add lighter weight clean and jerks and overhead squats as part of a barbell complex.
So I am getting a lot of mixed messages wrt arm positioning, for example Mark Rippetoe says to have the forarms vertical before the overhead press so that the line of action is directly upwards. Personally I can place my arms any which way during any of these moves (EXCEPT completely horizontal), but that may be because I am not working at the limit of what I can lift yet. Sorry to throw the overhead press at you, but it is part of my plan
I guess I called the arm position the “clean grip” for lack of a better word.
[quote]Reconstruction wrote:
Just to answer a couple of yours, my problem with my arms is not that I cannot touch my shoulders like you asked but my fingertips extend even further back than my back!!! (like about 1/2 inch-) That is why I joke that Oly bar will decapitate me! And no, I am not hunched over or have forward head posture.[/quote]
Gotcha. If you’ve got funky limb lengths, then it’s even more important to adapt any exercise to your own body.
Then I feel like you’ll learn a lot through trial and error. “Error” not in the sense of doing harm, just having “off days” where the lift just might not feel right during some reps.
For example, I know that if I grab the bar too wide, I’m not as strong pressing at the top. If I grab too close, I’m starting the movement with the bar too low and it doesn’t feel right either. It took a little while to figure out my sweet spot, which for me is a half-thumb away from the ring on either side. If I measure that out first and get it right, the reps are easy as cake.
No problem. A “clean grip” usually refers to how wide or narrow you’re holding the bar (as opposed to a “snatch grip” which is much, much wider than a clean grip.)
What I think we’re talking about is usually called the rack position, as in the bar sits on a “rack” from shoulder to shoulder.
I agree that good form is good enough. Its not necessary to have all fingers gripping the bar. The bar can rest on the shoulders with only the index and middle finger securing the bar. Also, arm length has nothing to do with it (I used to think so to until I just kept working at it and doing stretches everyday).
You just need to have the required flexibility in the shoulders/wrists and an understanding that its ok for the bar to be uncomfortably pressed against your throat. With the bar in proper position, its possible to even take your hands completely off and let it rest entirely on your shoulders (although you wouldn’t want to do reps like that).
Kind of. It hurts my wrist pretty bad though, and I have to shove against something to keep my elbow pointed straight out. But I can do that stretch (hurts a little on whichever shoulder is going under, but they can touch either right left or left right).
I should note; it’s actually easier for me to touch that bit of forearm right behind the wrist to my shoulder than it is for me to touch my fingers to my shoulder (assuming palms going to be facing up, as it would in the lift).
[quote]flch95 wrote:…Also, arm length has nothing to do with it (I used to think so to until I just kept working at it and doing stretches everyday).
… With the bar in proper position, its possible to even take your hands completely off and let it rest entirely on your shoulders (although you wouldn’t want to do reps like that).[/quote]
yes thank you! That article above has drills to do it without hands
Kind of. It hurts my wrist pretty bad though, and I have to shove against something to keep my elbow pointed straight out. But I can do that stretch (hurts a little on whichever shoulder is going under, but they can touch either right left or left right). [/quote]
Not bad, but if you need help to get into (or hold) one stretch position and there’s pain/discomfort with the other stretch, it’s an indicator that you could likely benefit from mobility and flexibility work through the upper back, shoulders, elbow, and wrist.
[quote]reconstruction wrote:
[quote]fich95 wrote:
With the bar in proper position, its possible to even take your hands completely off and let it rest entirely on your shoulders (although you wouldn’t want to do reps like that).[/quote]
yes thank you! That article above has drills to do it without hands :)[/quote]