Hey guys, next week I plan to reduce lifting down to two days a week as I up my long distance running over the summer.
I saw a previous post of a runner seeking a two day a week program. In the post, Jim recommended he use an 80-85% TM with 5s PRO and 5x5 FSL with assistance supersetted between main lifts. Instead of 5s PRO, what are your thoughts on using an 80-85% TM with Original 5/3/1 and 5x5 FSL for supplemental work?
The reason I ask is because 5s PRO and 5x5 FSL seems like a lot of volume and while I could tough it out, I don’t want it to affect my running. In Dan John’s Easy Strength book, he said that heavier and less reps (ie >80% and 10 total rep range) typically causes less soreness and leads to fresher athletes. This makes me think the original 5/3/1 may be better to use as two day a week plan with running instead of the 5s PRO. Why do you think Jim recommended 5s PRO with 5x5 FSL?
Having done endurance work and 531 at the same time I would say stay away from rep PR (Original) for the lower body when doing a lot of distance. A PR on squats and deadlift fuck me up a lot harder than 5x5 FSL (especially at 80-85% training max because I am able to go over 10 reps easily).
Think about it, if your max squat is 350 lbs and you use a 80% TM, 5x5 @ FSL would be 5x5 @ 180 to 210 lbs, which is easy. If you do a rep PR (still with 80% TM and same max), you would do around 10-15 reps @ 240-265 lbs. It’s a lot of reps during the same set.
The 5x5 work is really just form work and you are really far from failure so it is easy to recover from. With the PR you are close to failure with a heavier load.
For upper body, it don’t matter as much. But ask yourself, what is the priority for that training cycle? Conditioning or lifting? If it is conditioning, do the minimum lifting required (even for the upper body) to keep your strength and push the conditioning.
In my case, when I want to push the conditioning, I do 5’s PRO for squat and deadlift with a 80% TM. No supplemental. I do a PR for upper body (+3x5 FSL or no supplemental). It is enough to maintain my strength while pushing conditioning to new heights.
Edit : I should add that, according to me, PR + 5x5 FSL is more volume than 5’s PRO + 5x5 FSL because of the amount of rep you will do on your PR set with a 80-85% TM.
Yep, that was my point. I don’t know why Jim recommended what he did. I do know that it is difficult to serve two masters - running and strength training. If it were me, I would just do basic 531 with assistance.
Keep it simple : I would do a Dan John type of session. Upper body push + pull, lower body Squat + hinge. I suggest higher reps lower weight such as 3x8-12. Work on progressive overload rather than %s. If it makes you sore keep the weights lighter and dont try to progress too fast.
OR Walrus type of complexes. This is a lightish strength session, not an attempt at non-running cardio. If you are a decent runner complexes will not get your HR anywhere near running levels.
If you are endurance running as your focus you will need at least 3 runs per week to progress, this limits time or energy for weights. Endurance running does not work very well when combined on the same day as weights. Unlike sprinters who can run then lift. so that`s a further drain on your time.
Do you have a running target, eg race 10k. If so what sort of running do you plan to do ?
What distance running are we talking about? What is your current running fitness/goals? When i was running ultra distance and ultra trail i would basically run 70-100mpw and then train in the gym 2-3 days and it would be an upper/lower type split. Nothing heavy. If your running long you want to be at a lower bodyweight.
Yeah, you guys are right it is only a few more reps and I am probably overthinking it. The high percentage 5x5 weeks towards the end of 5s PRO also made my question the 5s PRO recommendation, but with an 85% TM, it really won’t be bad.
I am talking half marathon distance for running and 30+ mpw training, so nothing too crazy. My running programming is pretty set. I have months until the race so I have a lot of time.
I think I will run a few cycles of 5s PRO with FSL and reduce the sets of FSL if it gets to be too much. After that, I may mess around with the Fighter program from TB. And finally, once I get about a month out, I will drop the sets/reps and do a Dan John-esque workout until my taper.
If it were me, and it isn’t (I smoke, ain’t running no half marathon), I would just try to hang on to what I have.
To that end, lift heavy but single sets. I would do the regular 531 two days a week with assistance. I would not fool around with FSL or 5’s Pro, but I would do Joker sets.
You will likely struggle after a few cycles, strength and running do not marry well.
