CLA, EPA, DHA and Flameout.

Right now I take GNC fish oil. I take 10 caps a day, which gives me 1800 EPA and 1200 DHA. I can get this for about 22 dollars, and It lasts me 36 days.

I am thinking about switching to Flameout. With Flameout, I will be getting 2200 DHA, but only 880 EPA. It costs 25 dollars for 22 days. So its alitte more then a buck a day, wheras GNC is about seventy five cents.

I know that Biotest probably gets tired of its customers trying to be cheap. But, I was wonderinf if you forum members could tell me about Flameout. Will the increase in DHA be worth the drop in EPA, and will the Addition of CLA make it worth paying extra for?

And does anyone know if orders over 150 still get free shipping?

My answer would be the CLA is worth .25 a day.

I think CLA is a very beneficial supplement. I wish there was more in Flameout. My joints feel damn near perfect when adding additonal CLA to Flameout [which I take regularly].

So is CLA mostly for joints?

CLA is mainly used for fat loss but also has anti-inflammatory properties. The dose in Flameout is low though. The dosages used in clinical trials for fat loss are around 3 g.

So would getting more DHA and less EPA be good, and is the CLA worth my time if I don’t have joint problems.

Hmm, somewhere on the site there is a thread that mentions that Flameout provides DHA and EPA in a ratio more suitable for men.

Anyway, personally, where the prices are similar, I’d go Biotest, because I am on their site all the time and appreciate the articles and advice that I benefit from for free.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Hmm, somewhere on the site there is a thread that mentions that Flameout provides DHA and EPA in a ratio more suitable for men.

Anyway, personally, where the prices are similar, I’d go Biotest, because I am on their site all the time and appreciate the articles and advice that I benefit from for free.
[/quote]

The prices are not that similar. The gnc is about 50% Less (edit), but it contains significantly less DHA. My main goal here was to determine if more dha and the inclusion of CLA was good or not.

I buy other things from Biotest, and I was thinking about including Flameout. Its not like I am a Non-customer, I jsut try to compare prices. Same as everyone else I am sure.

I would go with Biotest over GNC anyday. The EPA and DHA ratio is excellent in Flameout. And if you don’t have any joint issues, I would not see a need for additional CLA beyond that which is in Flameout.

Why buy a product that is twice as much AND has less DHA and no CLA?

Oh, you wrote GNC cost more in the last post. Still, I like Flameout. I take 3 pills a day and usually 4 Costco or other cheaper pills.

So, can I get an opinion here. I don’t NEED the CLA, but I might benefit from taking more DHA. However, the drop in EPA concerns me. If I stick with the gnc brand, I would be getting about half the DHA though. My joints seem to be doing well, so I don’t see where the CLA will make much difference. If I don’t get the Flameout, I will probably just end up getting some TRIBEX, or some Rez-V.

i usually pander Biotest supps, but in the case where you want to save money on fish oil so you have more for protein and Surge or what not, i recommend going to walmart and purchasing the standard 30% (180DHA/120EPA) fish oil caps. if you want to ensure quality. look for the MEG-3 logo on the label.

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
i usually pander Biotest supps, but in the case where you want to save money on fish oil so you have more for protein and Surge or what not, i recommend going to walmart and purchasing the standard 30% (180DHA/120EPA) fish oil caps. if you want to ensure quality. look for the MEG-3 logo on the label.[/quote]

I actually ordered 2 bottles of Flameout this morning. I figure I will try two bottles back to back of Flameout. If I notice a difference above and beyone regular fish oil, Flameout is a keeper. If I don’t, I will buy the GNC and use the savings to try another supplement. I actually just plunked down 163 on supps this morning. I got two Power Drives, 2 creatines, 2 Flameouts and 6 ZMA’s.

Creatine normally doesn’t work for me, butI have been using the GNC brand. So I will try the Biotest brand. And I am excited to try Power Drive! some people on here say that Power Drive helps with recovery, and some say it helps with depression as well. So I am hoping it works for me.

The problem is, there are so damn many good supplements to use! being in college sucks, I have to watch my dollars. I have made good gains from just food, protein powder, fish oil and ZMA. I would probably explode if I could afford to take Alpha Male, Rez-V, BCAA’s, Methoxy-7, Metabolic Drive and all those other supps. I may be getting a lot more time at the state this quarter, so I may try some other supps.

Highlights from www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=275
which is entirely about the bodybuilding and health benefits of both the EPA and DHA compounds in Omega 3 fatty acids

  • In terms of cardiovascular health, both EPA and DHA omega-3s appear to be very important. Scientists aren?t sure whether one is better than the other. Therefore, to ensure cardiovascular health, just make sure you get plenty of both. Eating fish and supplementing with fish oil capsules should provide enough of these omega-3s to promote cardiovascular health. However, for building muscle and promoting faster recovery from intense exercise, one of these omega-3s stands alone in terms of the benefits it provides.

Powerful anti-catabolic

Based on the research, EPA appears to be an incredibly powerful anti-catabolic within muscle. This means that EPA prevents excessive breakdown of muscle proteins. One important reason why EPA is so effective at reducing muscle tissue breakdown is that it down-regulates the expression of the genes that control key regulatory components of the major pathway that leads to contractile protein break down in muscle. EPA effectively blocks the molecular pathway that results in excessive muscle breakdown

  • For bodybuilders, the benefits of EPA don?t stop there. As an active ingredient within fish oil, EPA is one of few compounds shown in research to reduce inflammation within muscle and connective tissue. Overtraining and chronic joint pain are attributed to excessive inflammation within these tissues that is caused by intense exercise training. A reduction in tissue inflammation (and muscle damage) provides the athlete with a big head start in terms of recovery.

  • Omega-3 fats such as EPA enhance fat metabolism (oxidation) during exercise. The results of a recent study suggest that regular use of fish oil containing a high ratio of EPA significantly increased fat oxidation during exercise

  • The only draw back is that a rather high dose of EPA is required to achieve these effects, in particular, this compound’s powerful anti-catabolic effect. At least two grams of EPA per day may be required to achieve this effect. Consider that your average fish oil capsule only contains about 180 milligrams of EPA. Do the math and you?ll be swallowing at least 12 capsules of fish oil everyday to obtain the bare minimum amount thought to promote this anti-catabolic effect.

The gastric reflux effects of swallowing this amount of fish oil capsules every single day have some rather unpleasant repercussions. If you don?t know what I mean, take 12-15 caps of fish oil, half an hour later stand near someone when you inevitably belch. Be sure to stare straight ahead, pokerfaced as their expression turns from a look of surprise to complete disgust as they get a whiff of your new dietary habit.

So let’s look at cost’s associated with getting minimum 2000mg EPA.

Biotest’s Flameout:
Requires 8 a day (to get above suggested 2000mg of EPA daily). That means a bottle lasts you 11 days. For a month, that’s a cost of $75. Seriously. For freaking Omega 3 fats. Added benefit: CLA content.

AST Myo-D:
Requires 8 a day (to get suggested 2000mg of EPA daily). Even thier own product suggested usage doesn’t meet their own requirements listed in the article they produced. That means a bottle lasts you 15 days. For a month, that’s a total cost of $62. Added benefits: added L-Luecine.

Costco’s (Health Balance Brand) “Super Concentrate Omega-3” who uses Meg-3tm (www.meg-3.com) as a manufacturer. Each capsule has 400mg of EPA and 200mg of DHA. So to get that elusive 2000mg of EPA, you guessed it…only 5 easy to swallow capsules a day (they are enteric coated). Cost? $30 (Canadian) for 240 capsules. That’s $19 a month.

Obviously cost wise, Costco (Meg-3) blows everyone else out of the water.

Hope that clears it up.

[quote]AllTraps wrote:
Highlights from www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=275
which is entirely about the bodybuilding and health benefits of both the EPA and DHA compounds in Omega 3 fatty acids

  • In terms of cardiovascular health, both EPA and DHA omega-3s appear to be very important. Scientists aren?t sure whether one is better than the other. Therefore, to ensure cardiovascular health, just make sure you get plenty of both. Eating fish and supplementing with fish oil capsules should provide enough of these omega-3s to promote cardiovascular health. However, for building muscle and promoting faster recovery from intense exercise, one of these omega-3s stands alone in terms of the benefits it provides.

Powerful anti-catabolic

Based on the research, EPA appears to be an incredibly powerful anti-catabolic within muscle. This means that EPA prevents excessive breakdown of muscle proteins. One important reason why EPA is so effective at reducing muscle tissue breakdown is that it down-regulates the expression of the genes that control key regulatory components of the major pathway that leads to contractile protein break down in muscle. EPA effectively blocks the molecular pathway that results in excessive muscle breakdown

  • For bodybuilders, the benefits of EPA don?t stop there. As an active ingredient within fish oil, EPA is one of few compounds shown in research to reduce inflammation within muscle and connective tissue. Overtraining and chronic joint pain are attributed to excessive inflammation within these tissues that is caused by intense exercise training. A reduction in tissue inflammation (and muscle damage) provides the athlete with a big head start in terms of recovery.

  • Omega-3 fats such as EPA enhance fat metabolism (oxidation) during exercise. The results of a recent study suggest that regular use of fish oil containing a high ratio of EPA significantly increased fat oxidation during exercise

  • The only draw back is that a rather high dose of EPA is required to achieve these effects, in particular, this compound’s powerful anti-catabolic effect. At least two grams of EPA per day may be required to achieve this effect. Consider that your average fish oil capsule only contains about 180 milligrams of EPA. Do the math and you?ll be swallowing at least 12 capsules of fish oil everyday to obtain the bare minimum amount thought to promote this anti-catabolic effect.

The gastric reflux effects of swallowing this amount of fish oil capsules every single day have some rather unpleasant repercussions. If you don?t know what I mean, take 12-15 caps of fish oil, half an hour later stand near someone when you inevitably belch. Be sure to stare straight ahead, pokerfaced as their expression turns from a look of surprise to complete disgust as they get a whiff of your new dietary habit.

So let’s look at cost’s associated with getting minimum 2000mg EPA.

Biotest’s Flameout:
Requires 8 a day (to get above suggested 2000mg of EPA daily). That means a bottle lasts you 11 days. For a month, that’s a cost of $75. Seriously. For freaking Omega 3 fats. Added benefit: CLA content.

AST Myo-D:
Requires 8 a day (to get suggested 2000mg of EPA daily). Even thier own product suggested usage doesn’t meet their own requirements listed in the article they produced. That means a bottle lasts you 15 days. For a month, that’s a total cost of $62. Added benefits: added L-Luecine.

Costco’s (Health Balance Brand) “Super Concentrate Omega-3” who uses Meg-3tm (www.meg-3.com) as a manufacturer. Each capsule has 400mg of EPA and 200mg of DHA. So to get that elusive 2000mg of EPA, you guessed it…only 5 easy to swallow capsules a day (they are enteric coated). Cost? $30 (Canadian) for 240 capsules. That’s $19 a month.

Obviously cost wise, Costco (Meg-3) blows everyone else out of the water.

Hope that clears it up.[/quote]

Thanks alltraps. I had thought that DHA is more important. I will take my two bottles of Flameout, and see how they make me feel. If I don’t notice a worthwhile difference, then will go back to GNC fish oil, where I get pretty close to 2000 epa for cheap.

[quote]AllTraps wrote:
Highlights from www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=275
which is entirely about the bodybuilding and health benefits of both the EPA and DHA compounds in Omega 3 fatty acids

  • In terms of cardiovascular health, both EPA and DHA omega-3s appear to be very important. Scientists aren?t sure whether one is better than the other. Therefore, to ensure cardiovascular health, just make sure you get plenty of both. Eating fish and supplementing with fish oilcapsules should provide enough of these omega-3s to promote cardiovascular health. However, for building muscle and promoting faster recovery from intense exercise, one of these omega-3s stands alone in terms of the benefits it provides.

Powerful anti-catabolic

Based on the research, EPA appears to be an incredibly powerful anti-catabolic within muscle. This means that EPA prevents excessive breakdown of muscle proteins. One important reason why EPA is so effective at reducing muscle tissue breakdown is that it down-regulates the expression of the genes that control key regulatory components of the major pathway that leads to contractile protein break down in muscle. EPA effectively blocks the molecular pathway that results in excessive muscle breakdown

  • For bodybuilders, the benefits of EPA don?t stop there. As an active ingredient within fish oil, EPA is one of few compounds shown in research to reduce inflammation within muscle and connective tissue. Overtraining and chronic joint pain are attributed to excessive inflammation within these tissues that is caused by intense exercise training. A reduction in tissue inflammation (and muscle damage) provides the athlete with a big head start in terms of recovery.

  • Omega-3 fats such as EPA enhance fat metabolism (oxidation) during exercise. The results of a recent study suggest that regular use of fish oil containing a high ratio of EPA significantly increased fat oxidation during exercise

  • The only draw back is that a rather high dose of EPA is required to achieve these effects, in particular, this compound’s powerful anti-catabolic effect. At least two grams of EPA per day may be required to achieve this effect. Consider that your average fish oil capsule only contains about 180 milligrams of EPA. Do the math and you?ll be swallowing at least 12 capsules of fish oil everyday to obtain the bare minimum amount thought to promote this anti-catabolic effect.

The gastric reflux effects of swallowing this amount of fish oil capsules every single day have some rather unpleasant repercussions. If you don?t know what I mean, take 12-15 caps of fish oil, half an hour later stand near someone when you inevitably belch. Be sure to stare straight ahead, pokerfaced as their expression turns from a look of surprise to complete disgust as they get a whiff of your new dietary habit.

So let’s look at cost’s associated with getting minimum 2000mg EPA.

Biotest’s Flameout:
Requires 8 a day (to get above suggested 2000mg of EPA daily). That means a bottle lasts you 11 days. For a month, that’s a cost of $75. Seriously. For freaking Omega 3 fats. Added benefit: CLA content.

AST Myo-D:
Requires 8 a day (to get suggested 2000mg of EPA daily). Even thier own product suggested usage doesn’t meet their own requirements listed in the article they produced. That means a bottle lasts you 15 days. For a month, that’s a total cost of $62. Added benefits: added L-Luecine.

Costco’s (Health Balance Brand) “Super Concentrate Omega-3” who uses Meg-3tm (www.meg-3.com) as a manufacturer. Each capsule has 400mg of EPA and 200mg of DHA. So to get that elusive 2000mg of EPA, you guessed it…only 5 easy to swallow capsules a day (they are enteric coated). Cost? $30 (Canadian) for 240 capsules. That’s $19 a month.

Obviously cost wise, Costco (Meg-3) blows everyone else out of the water.

Hope that clears it up.[/quote]

FLAMEOUT was specifically designed to have a much higher ratio of DHA to EPA. I suggest you read the product thread for more on this.

It would have been much easier, and less expensive, to produce a product higher in EPA, but it wouldn’t have had the inflammation-fighting properties that are found in FLAMEOUT.

If all you’re really concerned about is EPA, you should buy another product.

What I’ve been doing lately is taking 4 capsules of Flameout and 2 teaspoons of Carlson’s Lemon Fish Oil.

This gets me:
880 EPA + 1600 EPA = total of 2480 EPA

and

1000 DHA + 2200 DHA = total of 3200 DHA

I’m not a big fan of putting all my eggs in one basket. Besides, the Carlson’s doesn’t give me fish burps (all pill forms do, including Flameout), so it’s great for using in the morning.

I’m taking my fish oil in form of seven seas extra high strength pure cod liver oil. I’m going to see what high doses of this stuff does. Only ?5 for a 300ml bottle. Might try one a day for a week. Will post results if this stuff has noticeable effects.

be careful of the sore of the fish oil though…

Salmon…stay away… to many toxins…

Make sure its is from herring…

K.