[quote]Hanley wrote:
What about what Chuck’s taught Louie?[/quote]
The only thing that Chuck taught him is that freaks will always be freaks. Louie and Chuck did the same type of training style, and look at the difference…
[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
TYPE2B wrote:
Chuck is the epitome of a true Louie Simmons guineau pig.
Chuck’s been doing his own shit for a while. People who don’t know whats up shouldn’t bother to even comment.
My bad. I’m really sorry. I almost forgot about it. I was in wannabebigforums.com when I heard about it. Not sure…
What I am sure of is that he’s probably still using what Louie Simmons (also known as GOD) has taught him.
(I was just joking about the God part. I mean no disrespect with my religion, I’m just doing it for the sake of humor.)[/quote]
Louie is a good coach and has done a lot for the sport, but he didn’t “make” Vogelpohl. You can’t coach that kind of intensity and determination.
Calling Louie “god” isn’t offensive because of anyone’s religion. It’s offensive because the term suggests that his word is infallible and his training is somehow superior to other approaches. You don’t need bands and reverse hypers to get strong.
[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
TYPE2B wrote:
Chuck is the epitome of a true Louie Simmons guineau pig.
Chuck’s been doing his own shit for a while. People who don’t know whats up shouldn’t bother to even comment.
My bad. I’m really sorry. I almost forgot about it. I was in wannabebigforums.com when I heard about it. Not sure…
What I am sure of is that he’s probably still using what Louie Simmons (also known as GOD) has taught him.
(I was just joking about the God part. I mean no disrespect with my religion, I’m just doing it for the sake of humor.)[/quote]
If the word of Louie Simmons is so infallible…then why are so many former Westside “disciples” making huge gains after switching to programs that are radically different from both the Westside that most people know about and what the guys at WSB are doing today? What about the guys who are switching to block periodization or even basic intensity cycling like 5/3/1 making gains that they had never seen following Louie’s system? Hell, what about the guys who haven’t strayed too far from the original layout making better gains?
Jeremy Frey has suddenly become one of the top 242’s in the world over the past year using block periodization.
Jim Wendler is breaking his old deadlift PR’s at a lower body weight using 5/3/1
Lexen Xtreme and SC Barbell both have gyms full of monsters who rarely, if ever, do speed work.
Louie Simmons is a smart guy and has done a lot for the sport, but you still shouldn’t be drinking his kool aid.
[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Hanley wrote:
What about what Chuck’s taught Louie?
The only thing that Chuck taught him is that freaks will always be freaks. Louie and Chuck did the same type of training style, and look at the difference…[/quote]
I didn’t realize that you had so much experience with either of them? Have you ever or do you train at Westside?
You sound like a fanboy.
If I remember correctly, the three week pendulum wave and the extreme amounts of band tension were both things that came about because of the things Chuck was doing.
However, if Chuck were still doing what Lou was telling him, then he would be squatting with 600 lbs of band tension before every meet like Panora and company and would be wobbling all over hell and highwater when it came time to squat in a meet because he didn’t have the bands pulling him back into the hole.
[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Hanley wrote:
What about what Chuck’s taught Louie?
The only thing that Chuck taught him is that freaks will always be freaks. Louie and Chuck did the same type of training style, and look at the difference…[/quote]
Logic fail.
You say chuck’s a great lifter because he’s a freak, so his training style would appear not to matter. But at the same time he’s the lifter he is because of Louie’s training style?
Nice. And as SH said… 3 week wave and sick band tension. Bet you didn’t know where that came from?
I’m a huge fan of olympic squats, the deeper the squat the better, but you gotta give respect to this guy, good powerlifting depth and helluva lot weight. I would get crushed by that weight just looking at it…
It seems like people take Louie’s words verbatim too often. I personally benefit most from Westside methods by making them my own. I don’t do waves of retarded amounts of band tension or ALWAYS squat to a box, but I do apply general principles like rotation of ME work and addressing individual weak points.
I have never spoken with, met, or even seen Chuck V in real life, but I think he did same at Westside and does the same now: takes the methods and makes them his own. Was Louie helpful? Yes. Does/did Vogelpohl ever NEED Louie to be successful? NO, and that is showing through his current performances.
Just my opinion, I obviously don’t know everything or else my PRs would be A LOT stronger than 700/455/550.
I think the atmosphere at Westside had as much to do with the numbers as teh training did. Anytime you have a bunch of mosters pushing on another, you are going to see good results.
[quote]bdennis wrote:
That depth was incredible. I kept thinking he was going to stop and explode back up but he just kept going down. Incredible.[/quote]
What poppycock! Deep only by refference to the normal standards of US multi-ply lifting.
If we define a parrallel squat as the top of the knee (not thigh, not the knee wrap at thigh height!) needing to break the top of thigh/hip crease then CV squat effort seemed to clearly not break parrallel. This can easily be seen when looking at his right side.
Now yes there its only a vid etc, but at best it’s borderline.
It’s crazy to think some people regard that as a ‘deep’ powerlifting squat. WTF!!!
[quote]masonator wrote:
It seems like people take Louie’s words verbatim too often. I personally benefit most from Westside methods by making them my own. I don’t do waves of retarded amounts of band tension or ALWAYS squat to a box, but I do apply general principles like rotation of ME work and addressing individual weak points.
I have never spoken with, met, or even seen Chuck V in real life, but I think he did same at Westside and does the same now: takes the methods and makes them his own. Was Louie helpful? Yes. Does/did Vogelpohl ever NEED Louie to be successful? NO, and that is showing through his current performances.
Just my opinion, I obviously don’t know everything or else my PRs would be A LOT stronger than 700/455/550.
[/quote]
I myself don’t agree with certain things that Louie preaches. First of all, 90% or more of your success in powerlifting is mainly determined by your MAXIMAL STRENGTH. Speed strength is just a bonus. The main reason, for example, why Rezazadeh can squat 800+ pounds RAW, (which he probably did with even more depth than Vogehlpol’s) is because is max strength is super high. He didn’t use any type of dynamic effort training for his squat. It’s all in his base strength… It is also the reason why he has a 500+ clean and jerk.
Just like what I posted in another thread: Max effort training provides the meat, dynamic effort training cooks it.
If you are truly a beast, it won’t matter if your meat is cooked nor if it has any special grandma seasoning, YOU JUST EAT IT!
I hope you get the metaphor and I am truly sorry for the trolling. I just can’t help it…
[quote]IainK wrote:
bdennis wrote:
That depth was incredible. I kept thinking he was going to stop and explode back up but he just kept going down. Incredible.
What poppycock! Deep only by refference to the normal standards of US multi-ply lifting.
If we define a parrallel squat as the top of the knee (not thigh, not the knee wrap at thigh height!) needing to break the top of thigh/hip crease then CV squat effort seemed to clearly not break parrallel. This can easily be seen when looking at his right side.
Now yes there its only a vid etc, but at best it’s borderline.
It’s crazy to think some people regard that as a ‘deep’ powerlifting squat. WTF!!!
[/quote]
Hasn’t the multiply squat depth debate been done enough. No need to further beat a dead horse.
If you want to bitch about how multiply is ruining powerlifting, go somewhere else. Don’t shit on a thread recognizing the accomplishment of a powerlifting icon.
You can easily see that he’s not breaking parallel on the right? I must have missed you standing right there next to the side judge when I was sitting there front and center, right next to the head judge, taping and photographing Chuck’s and the other lifters attempts.
Chuck, his training partners, and local meet directors and other gyms like BIG have been working hard to clean up the IPA. You wanna see mile high squats? Go take a look at some of Westside’s guys, or Mike Miller’s “world record”.
[quote]masonator wrote:
It seems like people take Louie’s words verbatim too often. I personally benefit most from Westside methods by making them my own. I don’t do waves of retarded amounts of band tension or ALWAYS squat to a box, but I do apply general principles like rotation of ME work and addressing individual weak points.
I have never spoken with, met, or even seen Chuck V in real life, but I think he did same at Westside and does the same now: takes the methods and makes them his own. Was Louie helpful? Yes. Does/did Vogelpohl ever NEED Louie to be successful? NO, and that is showing through his current performances.
Just my opinion, I obviously don’t know everything or else my PRs would be A LOT stronger than 700/455/550.
[/quote]
I also don’t believe in repeated effort training. The Repeated effort method for me is for BBers only.
[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Hanley wrote:
What about what Chuck’s taught Louie?
The only thing that Chuck taught him is that freaks will always be freaks. Louie and Chuck did the same type of training style, and look at the difference…[/quote]
I was pretty sure that it was widely known that they actually trained VERY differently, even while training at westside.
You should probably just learn to be a lot quieter and listen a lot more.
[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
masonator wrote:
It seems like people take Louie’s words verbatim too often. I personally benefit most from Westside methods by making them my own. I don’t do waves of retarded amounts of band tension or ALWAYS squat to a box, but I do apply general principles like rotation of ME work and addressing individual weak points.
I have never spoken with, met, or even seen Chuck V in real life, but I think he did same at Westside and does the same now: takes the methods and makes them his own. Was Louie helpful? Yes. Does/did Vogelpohl ever NEED Louie to be successful? NO, and that is showing through his current performances.
Just my opinion, I obviously don’t know everything or else my PRs would be A LOT stronger than 700/455/550.
I myself don’t agree with certain things that Louie preaches. First of all, 90% or more of your success in powerlifting is mainly determined by your MAXIMAL STRENGTH. Speed strength is just a bonus. The main reason, for example, why Rezazadeh can squat 800+ pounds RAW, (which he probably did with even more depth than Vogehlpol’s) is because is max strength is super high. He didn’t use any type of dynamic effort training for his squat. It’s all in his base strength… It is also the reason why he has a 500+ clean and jerk.
Just like what I posted in another thread: Max effort training provides the meat, dynamic effort training cooks it.
If you are truly a beast, it won’t matter if your meat is cooked nor if it has any special grandma seasoning, YOU JUST EAT IT!
I hope you get the metaphor and I am truly sorry for the trolling. I just can’t help it…[/quote]
If you’re so sorry for trolling, why are you continuing to do so? Since when does being a successful olympic lifter only require max strength, and not speed?
Go crawl back under your bridge. No one wants you here.