I agree with Ptr. I am a christian and believe in the Lord Jesus. He was a real historical figure and did a great thing for all of humanity. He is the greatest being to ever walk on this planet. Believe what you want, flame whatever you want, use your “scientific data”, or historical dates and hypothesis’, but truth is truth, and Jesus Christ is the Truth. We will all die, 10 out of 10 people die, don’t wait until then to find out the Truth.
PtrDR
Oh no I am a fool, the bible says so, my life is worthless, i’m doomed…
Hang on a minute I don’t believe in God and I certainly don’t believe in the Bible.
You are probably praying for my soul, or wishing God would strike me down as I speak. Well don’t bother.
When you’re dead thats it, end of story. I don’t believe in Ressurrection, Heaven or any of that stuff.
But I respect peoples right to believe what they wish too. Be it Islam or Judasim. So I believe I should be allowed to believe what I wish too without someone judging me a bad person or a ‘fool’.
As the bible said ‘Judge not, that ye be not judged.’ Matthew: 7:1-5
Yes, the three religious all have the same God.
merry christmas!
Yes Creed…in the Bible…Jesus said to remove the plank from your own eye so you can see clearly to remove the speck from someone elses. My plank is removed. I am aware of the sin in my life and am getting it out. However…I will still sin. Its in the DNA. But…positionally I am considered righteous by the blood of Christ.
Creed; I do NOT judge you, but I will tell you what the Bible says about salvation…God/Jesus…death…heaven and hell. I would not be in keeping with the commandments of Jesus if I did not tell people of the plan for salvation. I would not be in keeping with Jesus’s teachings if I were to judge the actions of unbelievers also; AND I am NOT doing that with you. I am just telling you what the Bible clearly says. You are either going to accept or deny Jesus. It makes no differ3nce in my eternal destination if you follow Jesus; although I would like to see you and others in heaven! one day.
I AM a man of science. Its what my field of endeavor demands and what my mind craves. Everything about everything from the DNA of a cell…to the complex and perfect harmony of the Universe tells me there is a creator BIGGER…GREATER…and SMARTER than me! I have no problem bowing the knee! No ego to be bruised.
Imagine if you will that you find a watch on a seashore. Would you suppose that random chance created the watch and washed it ashore after millions of years? or would you intuitively know that it had a CREATOR?? I think the answer is self explanatory.
I do NOT wish you to be struck down.
I DO wish that you and everyone else come to believe in the truth Of Jesus Christ and follow Him.
Again…I am fairly bright …but not brilliant. But I do heed the conclusions of geniuses like Tolkien and others who were VERY much smarter than me and sought out the truth of Jesus Christ.
ptr hasn’t judged anyone with his comment, but perhaps rubbed some the wrong way.
creed you are free to believe the way you wish and i am glad that you feel the same way about folks who do believe on God. i must say that i do believe in a living God and a Jesus Christ that died so i would have a choice to freely live. but i must admit that it’s a daily struggle sometimes to believe in what we as humans see as intangibles. and perhaps debates like these do help guys like ptrDR and myself to remember the validity of our faith, so be it. does it make my faith any weaker? absolutely not. seek and ye shall find. daily i’m seeking and finding.
now before i go there is one thing i would like to address. and it’s been said by ptr, but i have to reiterate. Jesus Christ claimed to be God. due to the hebrew origin of this word God translated, this is no small claim. so religions that accept Jesus as a “good” teacher and nothing more are in direct conflict with themselves. as ptrDR stated, Jesus Christ was either God as he said he was, or a raving lunatic, or worse.
the only evidence i have for my faith is a changed life.
Ah yes, a changed life… but who did it? Was it Jesus, or was it you, boonedoc holiday? Don’t be afraid to take credit for your accomplishments, my friend. Jesus isn’t driving you to the gym, he isn’t making you stick to your diet, and he isn’t helping you lift the weights. That is all YOU, buddy. That is YOUR willpower, whether you think it is aided by some “higher power” or not. Let go of your fear, people. When you die, you die. By definition. Just because a whole bunch of people believe something to be true doesn’t mean that it is.
Oh, and I would root for Jesus in the celebrity deathmatch. Abraham would fall pretty quick, and that would leave Mohammed and J-dog to duke it out. Mohammed’s more of a bloodthirsty type, so I think he would have the all-important mental edge. Probably skewer Jesus with a scimitar or some shit like that. But, just when Mohammed turns his back to claim victory, Jesus would rise from the dead and sucker-punch Mohammed into unconsciousness!
There is another option beside the liar, lunatic and son of God. The other option is that he was a prophet of God and no more no less. It may not be an option to you but it is still an option.
Lothario is right on, it’s all about what’s inside. There may be a higher power, but I don’t believe he/she/it gets mixed up in your daily life. God just doesn’t care. Vonegut nailed it in Sirens of Titan with “The Church of God The Utterly Indifferent”. Reading that book at 16 definitely had an impact on my outlook, and made me rethink many of the beliefs that had been instilled by parents and the CC.
The bible is mostly a compilation of fiction, bedtime stories and fairy tales.
Organized religion, especially the Big Three, is at the root of all that is wrong in the world.
Life begins when you take that first breath, and ends when the last breath leaves your body. Then it’s over. Lights out.
Trying to convert others to your own religious beliefs, because your way is right and therefore they must be wrong and doomed to “hell”, is an example of stupidity and arrogance taken to a whole new level.
Happy Hollidays!
tme,
Vonnegut is not that great an author to conceive religion by him. Sometimes he’s funny and devises interesting apocalyptic imagery, like in “Cat’s Cradle”–that’s about it.
tme…I respect your right to have your own opinions…as wrong as they are…they are yours nonetheless.
I thougth evil was the root of all problems in the world?
Tme…let me ask you one question: why are you apparently so hostile to the Bible and God? What did someone say or do to you to make you so angry? A person does NOT have strong feelings and opinions about things that are NOT important to them…but you clearly do have strong opinions and beliefs about the subject at hand. What happened bro?..to make it such a passionate issue for you???
ptr, it gets annoying when people start preaching about god and when confronted with solid arguments about why they are wrong, frequently cite that christ is truth or some other bullshit to get out of a bind…
you are what’s wrong with the world. people blind to the facts, brainwashed by centuries and centuries of agenda-driven literature, justifying everything single thing in the name of god no matter how horrible these things might be. it’s your kind that will be pushing the button towards a nuclear holocaust, your kind that will release bioagents… god is peace and love right? bullshit
danh…YOU are wrong about me on every count you mentioned. You don’t know me friend…and for you to make wild generalzations is adolescent and reactionary.
First…I am a skeptic. I am a person of science…I work in the medical community so the scientific method holds sway for me…as a PROCESS…NOT a religion!
I looked at the facts…archeological…manuscript evidence…secular accounts…scientific probabilty and the advice of smart men like WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE…TOLKIEN…CS LEWIS…and too many others to name who saw that Jesus Christ was who HE said He was and did do the things He did.
We have WAY more pieces of manuscripts that all stack up to solidify and verify the Bible is accurate…so much so…its actually embarrassing when compared to other literature that is NEVER questioned like Homer’s ILIAD…and the works of Plato and Aristotle!! Did you know that bro?..that are more pieces of manuscript of the Bible than we have ever found of other ancient documents mentioned above? and that those “other” documents are MUCH older than the Bible? surprising huh???
Now…I am also an Officer in the Air Force. I SERVE MY COUNTRY…what do you do friend???
I am willing to fight and die for this country and the Judeo/Christian underpinnings that support the Constitution.
Are you?
You accuse me of being what is wrong with this country and this world.
I am willing to fight and die for your rights to say idiot things like that.
How does that square with ME being the source of all problems in the world??
And someone like ME pushing the buttons on HOLOCAUST??huh???
Hitler is the most famous evil dictator in history. HE was ANTI Christian. Anti JEW. So, again…your comment in nonsensicle.
Judeo Christian values allow you to worship whatever you want in this country. Just read the story of the original people from Britian who founded this country. The came here for the FREEDOM TO WORSHIP HOW THEY SAW FIT!!! Did you skip American history?
How can you critisize Christians and the Bible if you lack a grasp of YOUR OWN HISTORY??
danh…It looks like:
You have been WEIGHED
You have been MEASURED
and
You have been found WANTING…
Montrosefan…
ptr, i do like this country, it is my home as well. i will protect it as much as will. i am a systems/electrical engineer and actually work on some of the stuff you AF people use. but not because we are one country “under god” but because this is actually one of the first countries where you didnt have to believe a bunch of BS to live in peace. country has nothing to do with this post. (i love how my not believing in god is kinda unpatriotic all of a sudden, interesting.)
yeah i expect people to say my post is inflammatory, only because it strikes a dagger to the very basic unfounded beliefs you guys hold.
religious extremists (i.e. people who believe their scripts literally) are what is wrong in the world, from the fundamentalists in the middle east, to the settlers in israel, and the lobby groups who press our US government on things like abortion, interracial relationships, prayer in school, etc. if people were a little more flexible in their interpretations of god and the truth, then we wouldnt have as many problems as we now do.
danh…
You did the ol “context switching” on PtrDr…didn’t ya?
You accuse him of equating patriotism with believeing in God; when the reality is that you accused him of being “what is wrong with people in the world” and this country. And yet when he says he helps to defend this country and protect your freedoms…therefore not being “one of the biggest problems in this world”, you accuse him of tying patriotism and God.
Your hopeless when it comes to honest dialoque and debate.
When the term “stupid people” comes up…I think of you…
context switching… that was my point exactly… country has nothing to do with believing in god, let alone working for the air force.
ok, im stupid. believe whatever makes you feel better.
there is no god PERIOD. religion is bullshit PERIOD. that’s where my contributions to this thread end.
Good riddance…
Come back some day when you are more “open minded” and non hostile.
Of course…I will remember its people like me…who would die for your freedoms…that are the biggest threats in the world!!!
Oh good, Ace and Gary together again. The Ambiguously Gay Duo
[quote]“open minded”[/quote], goddamn but that’s funny coming from you Ptr. “Open minded” to you simply means someone who is willing to agree with you that your interpretation of some archaic book is the only one, and that every other religion or belief system therefore must to be wrong.
It’s not that I don’t believe in God, I actually do believe in some sort of higher being. I’m just not prepared to pronounce that I know the truth, and then proceed to convert everyone who will listen.
I refuse to call myself a “christian” simply because I don’t want to be associated with people like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and the fucking cowards who send little teenage girls to proselytize in a country where it’s illegal (and then hide when they get caught. I still wish the Taliban had traded those girls for the “ministers” who sent them, and then cut their heads off in public. Stupid cowardly bastards.)
Understand that I think it’s just great that you believe whatever you want, but that I really don’t give a fuck what that belief is. I didn’t ask, so please don’t feel compelled to tell me on every thread you post on, whether it’s relevant or not.
My point earlier, and what danh has pointed out, is that religious fundamentalism is bad, period. And yes, all that is wrong, and evil, in this world can be traced to religious extremism. And like I said several months ago, when it comes right down to it there really is no difference between an Islamic and a Christian fundamentalist: neither is any more or less full of shit than the other.
IMO the biggest problem with religion is not the beliefs on which they are based but the people who misintrepret them and abuse them for their own ends.
The faiths that people follow are passed on from person to person, generation to generation. Therein lies the problem. At any point in this process the message can change or be corrupted. Before the written language it was done word of mouth. Then by book. Now we exist in the age of multimedia.
Unfortunately people have been using religion to broker power, discriminate against other groups, commit genocide, subjugate the many since the dawn of time. And it will carry on for as long as there are human beings.
I do not think you can say any religion is better than another as it depends entirely on the followers. There are good christians and bad, good muslims and bad.
There are also good aetheists of which I hope I am one and if am wrong about god then I hope s/he/it/they will be gracious enough to grant me a place in Heaven. Even if I don’t believe.