I haven’t been on this forum that much, so I’m not sure if this has been covered before, but I’m wondering what everybody’s views are as far as religion and the origin of human beings. I’m 20 years old, and wasn’t raised in a particular religion (and I am actually glad), so I have been looking at religion very objectively. To me, it seems possible that groups of people completely made up their religions for the main purpose of controlling people that they deemed inferior. I don’t want to piss anybody off, but I would love to hear what everybody thinks, especially if it is something other than the mainstream (but only serious responses please).
I suggest you do a search using religion as the subject, there have been a number of discussions on the subject with some differing and strong views.
If you’re refering to " oragnized religion" I beleive you may be right. If you are talking about faith,that is entirely different.Do you beleive in God?
I was brought up Catholic, but I completely disagree with it!! I completely disagree with organized religion. But that’s my own view point. What I say, is believe in what feels right in your heart. That’s all that matters. If you think following a certain religion with it’s rule is what is right, all the power to you. If you think not believing in anything at all, all the power to you. I just think that people should not differentiate themselves too much on what they believe, but do it on who the person is.
For me, I believe in a power that by combined by all human beings, it is greater than ever. I don’t believe in a being like a god is greater than me. But there is a power that if we all work together, it would bring us to new heights.
the only higher power is God.
this topic has been overdone but i’ll give my two cents. i think it is good for you that you are of no “religion” and are pursuing it objectively. there is much to learn. it is impossible to know everything about any single religion but it would be wise to take classes if you’re in college and read books about different faiths. “religion” was established by people, not “made up” as you put it. whether it began as polytheism and developed into monotheism or began as monotheism and developed into polytheism is for you to decide. with all that being said, i think there is good reason that the 3 big religions, Christianity, Judaism, and Muslim are still alive today, and its more than just political power. do the research and i’m sure you’ll come across a good answer.
As to the question of whether I believe in God, I guess I’m pretty much undecided. I tend to make decisions based on evidence, and nobody has proved conclusively that there is or isn’t a God, so I’ll probably never have an absolute belief. Sometimes I find myself thinking of possibilities that might seem sort of strange, like that maybe we are the failed attempt of some sort of creator who is trying to make the perfect civilization, and that maybe there are others like ours in other galaxies, possibly even a utopia somewhere. Then again, I’m weird and I think of a lot of things that are pretty “out there.”
Scott – for the scientific take on the existence of God, the origin of man, etc, take a look at a website titled Reasons to Believe (www.reasons.org). I applaud you for your take on “religion”, I share your view. The problem is that people see a particular “church” and confuse what that church teaches as “belief”. In reality, I believe that no one religion can have it all right, as they are all human interpretations of divinely inspired words. We won’t really know until we meet God face to face. Do your search in the Word (the Bible, Torah, etc.) and find your own path.
i cant friggin stand that “i believe what i see” crap. have you ever seen an atom? an electron? a quark? didnt think so. yet, you seem to go along with science and believe that they exist. after all, all matter is made up of these things. the view about control is a prety skewed one. look through history, and you will find many religions that exist for many years w/o bothering a single person. religion actually doesnt do a thing, a humans bastardized view of a religion is what does all the screwy crap. as far as the big G man existing, that is a personal journey. one you have to take, or not take. I just really hate the entire “i believe what i see” stuff. there is far too much evidence to the contrary of mainstream science. check out creationresearch.org for some proof of that. it is a group of scientists, doctors, and laymen who have come to the view that there are far too many holes in most scientific theory to blindly accept what is claimed. in so doing, they have begun collecting scientific proof for the existence of a greater power. I close by saying this- where is the unified theory of physics?
Religion is the opium of the people!!!
if you are going to quote, make sure you have it right. religion is the opium of the masses. you probably misquote movies, too…
From “Familiar Quotations” by John Barlett:
Miguel de Unamuno (1864-1936): “…religion is the opiate of the people. Opium…opium…opium, yes. Let us give them opium so that they can sleep and dream.” “San Manuel Bueno,” prologue.
Karl Marx (1818-1883): “Religion…is the opium of the people.” “Critique of the Hegelian Philosophy of Right” (1844), introduction.
(Hope this helps!)
open mouth, insert foot. my bad.
I could have sworn it was the opiate of the masses… ah well, what are you gonna do…
found it! biography of Karl Marx- “Karl Marx” by Francis Wheen. “Religion is the opiate of the masses.” Uselessknowledge.com “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions. It is the opinion of the people.” - Karl [Heinrich] Marx (1818 - 1883). “On Religion” by
KARL MARX and FRIEDRICH ENGELS. “…opiate of the masses.” crap, now you have me wondering if this is just another bastardized quote… and i do misqoute movies.
Very clearly, not all texts believed to be Scriptures verbatim accurate from God are such. For example, clearly it’s impossible that both the Koran and the New Testament are verbatim accurate from God. At least one cannot be.
Now, does this mean that the writers of at least one of them must have been a deliberate fraud? I don’t think so.
As one hypothesis, there’s a quite interesting yet little studied psychological phenomenon described as Ego State Disorder. (Really it would make sense to call it a disorder only when there’s a functional problem, but psychologists seem bent on conditions being called disorders, else they don’t exist.)
Ego State Disorder is a condition where dissociation is greater than in the average individual, but less so than in multiple personality disorder. The ego states, or parts of the mind, are incapable of taking over control of the body and are more integrated than in that condition, but nonetheless can be conversed with in a hypnotic state, and in the normal state, strongly affect the conscious mind.
And – this is where it gets interesting – in Ego State Disorder, it’s quite typical for one or more of the ego states to be a model, so to speak, of an individual who has power or control over the person. For example, if there’s an abusive father, an ego state may, in the mind, BE the father, and to the other ego states is perceived as a real entity. The subconscious mind fears and seeks to avoid the displeasure of this internal “father” just as much as the real one. By doing so, conscious behavior is modified in a way that hopefully will result in less displeasure or punishment from the real father. So there actually is a purpose to a part of the mind posing, within the mind, as being a separate individual who is the father and exerts control (not puppet-like, but verbally, internally) over the other parts.
Now, is it possible for someone with Ego State Disorder to have an internal “God” that within his own mind is perceived as a real entity, who dictates words to him?
Could be I suppose. I’m NOT saying that Muhammed, for example, did have Ego State Disorder. I’m only saying that it seems a plausible explanation for the origin of some religious texts.
Because it is not possible that both the Koran and the New Testament were actually dictated by the same God. At least one must have a human origin, probably unconscious and sincere.
I’m strictly floating this as a hypothesis
that I’ve never seen anywhere – either because it is stupid perhaps, or because Ego State Disorder is not generally recognized.
DA MAN- I never said “I believe what I see,” I said “I tend to make decisions based on evidence.” There is conclusive evidence that atoms exist, so of course I believe they do. There is evidence that supports the existence of God, but also evidence that does not support the existence of God. I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know that much about all the different religions or all the arguments against the existence of God. What am I supposed to do, just pick the first religion that I learn about and assume it’s the right one? All I was trying to say before is that I cannot fully believe in something unless I am quite sure that it is correct. In order to fully believe in a certain religion, I feel that it is necessary to have a lot of knowledge about different beliefs and where they came from. One of the main reasons that I have problems with certain organized religions is that I see the people who claim to follow the religion, and they end up violating many of the principles of their religion. That may seem a bit off the topic, but it seems to me that if they fully believed that they needed to follow all the principles of their religion in order to achieve salvation, why would they choose not to?
Then as far as the control idea, it is just that, an idea. I’m sorry if it offended you. Either way, when settlers came to America, they first wanted to “civilize” the Native Americans, which meant converting them to their religion, and also use them as slaves. When the Native Americans resisted, they were slaughtered in unbelieveably brutal ways. If that happened in the name of religion, then I could never support a religion that allows that type of behavior. This will probably also be controversial, but I am open to responses, however, you don’t have to bite my head off and say that you hate people like me.
there is no god
Scott, these are just some thoughts to help you on your search. You may be interested in a book by C.S. Lewis called “Mere Christianity.” He was an atheist for much of his life, and the Chair of English Studies at Oxford (or Cambridge, or both – I don’t recall.) His emerging (though reluctant) faith was greatly influenced by Tolkein (whose “Lord of the Rings” has been getting a lot of revived interest lately) and G.K. Chesteron. The three of them dwarf most contemporary intellects on the subject of faith. Anyway, Lewis’ “Mere Christianity” is quite good reading. On control – I doubt that anything in life is so good that it cannot be used for a bad purpose. But in your search, you’ll probably find that the genesis of most beliefs is an attempt to answer those three overhanging questions from which no man is immune: where did I comes from, what should I do here, and where am I going? I’d encourage you to seek an understanding of each religion relative to those three questions. Finally, conclusive proof is a worthy goal in your search, but on matters of faith, it cannot be found. Aquinas and Augustine made the best headway a man might accomplish, in my opinion, but no belief system is beyond a plausible refutation. In fact, the New Testament just says outright that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things that we don’t see. Such statements are a cynic’s paradise. In any case, faith always requires a leap. Personally, I think it’s a smaller leap than most assume, but it is a leap nonetheless. Perhaps the most graphic representation of the process is from the third Indiana Jones movie, when Harrison Ford comes to an abyss, sees in his map that he must just walk out into thin air, and ultimately he does, only to realize that the path was there all along. Keep an open mind on such things (but not so open that the wind blows through 
)
Scott- sorry if i sounded like a dick. i just tend to get a little miffed with people and the whole seeing is believing stuff. i deal w/ people like that everytime I bow my head before a meal. they always jump in w/ the scientific “fact” stuff and start rambling. I had just gotten thru w/ one such person right b4 i read your post. I was in the wrong for “biting your head off,” and I apologize. I totally understand your situation. the only problem with the “knowing” that something is right is that you never truly know anything 100%, unless it is math. thats why i love math, you cant argue w/ numbers. this is where your heart comes in. you do/believe what you feel is right in your heart. as for the nutjobs throughout history using religion as an excuse for their actions- they are the ones that give religion and spirituality a bad name. but look at the other end of the spectrum as well- political figures killing and raping, mass murderers, serial killers- many of them do not have a religous viewpoint, yet they slaughter just the same. I am not trying to say you are wrong, i know i was in the same situation before i discovered what i believe. the science i was being taught left way too many holes, so i began researching these little holes, and found them to be the beginning of huge craters and canyons in the scientific “facts” I was being taught. thru this I found my views and feelings. I dont follow anything blindly, for that is just ignorant. you should never believe anything that is told to you w/o digging deeper into it yourself.