Christianity vs. Judaism vs. Islam

Off Topic
101

to lothario,

yes sir or ma’am i knew this would come up when i made the statement that my life has changed and that is evidence of “God” or “whatever” working within me. i’m fully aware that my internal drive for excellence at sport and desire for optimal health and strength are what keep me going to the gym. i’m also fully aware that the desire to “be a good person” so to speak is innate. but the motivation for decent behavior, that’s the key. not all that long ago i could try to be a “good person” and all that stuff, and no matter how self-disciplined i was, i could not be consistent. like training without a partner to use your gym analogy, which i do alot because i think i’m hardcore enough to do so without one. needless to say i crap out sometimes when i know there’s more left in me, and since i’ve got no one there to help me, no one knows that i didn’t give it everything. i need the partner, the motivator, the mentor that believes in me so much to project his or her energy through me in a sense. same thing with what God does for me. he is that motivation to do what we all know deep down as right, consistently, and be glad to do so. without him as motivation projecting through me i would half-ass being a “good person” just like i half-ass some of my workouts.*

*anyone in florida need a workout partner?? it’s hard to find someone with similar ideas about training…besides some of the stuff i do per this website and other sources scare the average gym goer.

btw, i’d pick Jesus in a royal rumble. ever hear how he cleared out the moneychangers and animal traders in the temple with a scourge?? talk about royal indignation…

102

IM sorry you are so hostile and intolerant of my beliefs…If I were you…I wouldn’t even bother reading OR posting on religious threads like this one…Its a waste of time for you…and by the tone of your colorful lanquage…is probably wrecking any muscle growth you have going on by releasing excess cortisol!
Its obvious that you are passionate about your disbelief…and you sound very angry…me…Im smiling…its Christmas;0)

103

I agree with a few things you said Creed. In particular…people HAVE used “religion” wrongly. That is ONE reason I don’t even call myself “religious”. I and other Christians have a “personal relationship” with Jesus Christ/God. Religion is about doing this or that ceremonial thing or another and “trying” to be good enough for God. The fact is…none of us is without sin. And perfect is the standard God uses. Sin seperates us from God…even if we try to be a “good person”; we will do something…think something…or have an attitude that is sinful. BUT…the gift God gives us is GRACE…through Jesus. Grace is basically unmerited forgiveness or mercy.

But…tell me…since this country is mostly Christian/Catholic…where is all the genicide occuring in this country that you are talking about? Since we live in the USA and know more about it than most other countries probably…show me where all this “genicide…violence…oppression and hatred” from Christians/Catholics is occuring here in the Ol USA.
And don’t dodge the question. You made a statement specifically about genicide carried out by Christians…and I want to hear about this type of thing going on in America.

104

PtrDr, not to jump on the bandwagoners that are bashing you, but maybe you slept through history when they discussed that many of the settlers were ‘sort of’ kicked out of the Great Britian. Great Britian didn’t want these people. In addition, many of our founding fathers were very moderate in their religious views. And as far as what danh is saying… I think the point that you are missing is that under our current administration it has become unpatriotic to not believe in God or Jesus. Or our stance in Iraq for that matter. THAT is disturbing! I’m not allowed to question my gov’t? Fuck that, it’s like Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm’. And yes we should take out “under God” from the pledge of allegiance. It wasn’t their when it was created.

105

i will not get into the religious aspects of this, as it is too volitile and religion is like love, it is very personal and when you beliv e in it you are bliond deaf and dumb to everything else.

i will comment on a few other things.

REN…you said that spain, waged war on muslims? as my grandparents are from spain, and know a little about its history, let me educate you. the origional inhabitants of spain were visigoths, you know,. vikings. fair skinned, blond and red haired peoples. then why do so many spainyards have dark skin and hair and eyes? from the infusion of islamic blood from over 200 years of FORCED OCCUPATION of spain by the moors, an islamic tribe. king ferdinand lead a revolt, and kicked them out. if kicking out an invading foreinn force from your lands is oppression/persecution…then i guess they(spainish roman catholics) are bad guys, my badd

also this, i do not believe that this is truely a christian verses muslim thing. it is an east verses west cultural war going on, which is rapidly becoming a physical war. the difference between us and them, i can sum it up for you:

when americans hear about isralies destroying muslim neighborhoods in palestein, nobody here rejoices about it. but days after 9-11, multiple video from various news sources showing muslims dancing and cheering in neighborhoods holding up pictures of the twin towers burning, when i saw these videos,i wished that off in the distance an american fighter jet was there ready to fire-bomb the lot of them. all the PC-ness of this thread makes me sick.

there, now flame on…

106

PtrDr,

I wasn’t going to jump back into this thread, but I have to cry foul on part of your line of reasoning. Somehow, you have come to conflate your military status and patriotism with your religious beliefs. Look, whatever motivates you in your career is your business, and I applaud your service. However, back when I was a naval officer, I served with scores of officers and hundreds of enlisted personnel whose religious belief varied from extreme fundamentalism to agnosticism to atheism, some were Christians, some were Jewish – their beliefs had nothing to do with their patriotism, their commitment to the service, or the quality of their performance. The rights you protect include the right to be critical of your beliefs; the fact that your beliefs strengthen your commitment, does not prove their truth or give you the right to expect that others will adopt them.

Further, you seem somewhat hostile to some of these posters because they disagree with the mission that you and others currently have. The way we run this country is that when the military has orders from the President, they go an carry them out, even if they are given a stupid-ass mission, because that is what professionals who have taken the oath do. It is not unpatriotic for civilians to opine that the mission given to the military is a stupid-ass one; it would be unpatriotic not to express that opinion if that is how they really feel. Patriotism doesn’t mean blind acceptance.

Finally, if you look back at my first post on this thread, I listed a number of historical instances in which purported belief in Christianity was the direct cause of horrible slaughter. People who purported to have been Christians have been as active in killing and repression as members of any other religion. Does that mean that Christianity is a blood-thirsty, violent religion? Maybe if you are a Muslim, you’d be inclined to think so – mirroring precisely the statements regarding Islam that started this whole thread. It would be a really good idea if people on all sides would read some history before they open their mouths – maybe we could all learn not to repeat these mistakes.

Porkchop

107

PtrDR

Suddenly you get angry at the suggestion that Christians have committed or are responsible for Genocide!

Did I ever say there was Genocide occurring in the USA? But the US has stood by while other Christians have committed Genocide.
The Rwandan genocide where 800,000 loss their lives in 100 days. Where 80-90% of the population are Christian, making it the most Christian country in the whole of Africa. And the US did nothing?!

No neither did the UK, Belgium or the UN. And they are christian too.

As for christians being involved on violence and hate in the US. ‘The Knights of the KKK has many goals. As Christians we know that Jesus has promised us peace on earth one day. This is why the white Christians came to this place called America which was named by a Christian man and it means the Kingdom of God.’ By 1930, four thousand blacks had been lynched nationwide by white mobs, vigilantes, or the Klan.

Just in the last couple of years, the Christian Yugoslav government led by the popular leader Slobodan Milosevic slaughtered huge numbers of ethnic Albanian Muslims, citing the Bible’s genocidal language as justification.

Don’t believe me when I say the Bible epouses Genocide?

‘Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.)’
Exodus, Chapter 34, verses 11-14

Oh yeh ever heard of the Crusades? Or the Spanish Inquisition? What about the 1904 Herero ‘War’ where Christians wiped out over 80% of the population of non-christians?
Oh and I believe that most Germans in World War II were Christian, whereas those most persecuted where mostly Jewish.

And why do you seperate Christians and Catholics? Catholics are Christians!! They all believe in Christ?!!

108

To Dubs…Porkchop…danh…and Creed.

What part of the post here did you skip?

You say I am equating my military duty and patriotism with Christianity???

Ok…let me lay this out for you all:…read V…e…r…y… carefully and S…L…O…W…L…Y…

I was accused of being…“people like you are whats wrong with this world”…
That was an accusation thrown directly at ME. Even though this person doesn’t know that much about me…HE made that sweeping statement. Ok???..follow me???

I defended his unwarranted generalization by first saying that he does not know me…AND…
That I am in the military…and that THAT shows I am patriotic. I didn’t mention anything about God and my patriotism…GET IT???
I said that I AM patriotic…and would and will FIGHT AND DIE for all the posters on here’s right to speak there mind…EVEN if I disagree with it…GOT IT???
If I am willing to die…serve in the military…and am patriotic…and prepared to defend danh and his right to speak his mind…How can I be part of genicide…oppression…murder…and any other dispecible thing that he blames on “religious” people???

Hello???
Does anyone NOT see the point I am making???
Are any of you using logic here? have you ever taken a debate class wherein you must comprehend what one person is saying BEFORE you give a rebuttal???

Geeze…I thought most of you T-men are smarter than this!!!

If you do or don’t understand what I have been meaning here…a simple YES or NO will do. Check either box!

109

And yes…people “claiming” to be doing things for the name of Jesus have done HORRIBLE things.

Christians here in the USA and most other places do NOT do or belive in doing those types of horrible things. And even if someone who claims to be Christian does…that person will have to face God on his own. Each person will be held accountable for what he had done…not matter what “reason” he gave for doing so.

Oh…and the verses you quoted in the Bible…yes…they happened. Those were unrepentent evil nations that had to be destroyed for Gods chosen people to live. Those nations had plenty of chances to learn about the Lord from Israel. The Isrealites were called to be “a light to the world and a nation set apart” to bring more people to God. Some people I am sure did…some did not. Gods plan for the salvation for man did dictate that the nation of Isreal would have to continue to birth the Messiah.
And if you don’t agree with me…go ask someone who has gone to formal seminary.

To tme and danh: I am throwing down a challenge to you…
Since you do not believe in God…and the afterlife…therefore nothing really matters…Why don’t you go AND DO YOURSELF and your family in?..whats to loose?? wouldn’t it be easier to go ahead and die than to struggle through llife? If there is no afterlife…do whatever you want!!! do whatever YOU think is right…since there is no fixed right or wrong…remember…your truth is not MY truth or anyone elses for that matter.

My Father and Creator is God. I am answerable to Him.
Since you have no God and no creator…you are just a bunch of random chance molecules…Just take the dirtnap now! why wait??? but before you do…do ANYTHING your heart desires…because after all…YOU can make your own rules!
There is no point to your existence…no one will miss you that long…and it won’t matter if you leave anyting good or bad behind anyway…because those are abstract arbitrary values in your “naturalistic worldview.”

110

Hang on a minute…
Unrepentant evil nations that had to be destroyed for gods chosen people to live…

Are you saying Genocide is justified?

Isn’t that what the crusades were? The evil muslims that had to be destroyed or converted? Wasn’t that Slobodan Milosevic’s justification too?

And suggesting that people should top themselves just because they happen not to agree with you or believe in the afterlife!

Some christian you are!!

Anyhow your reasoning is flawed. I don’t believe in the afterlife and that makes me even more determined to make the best of my life on this planet because i know that i only have one shot at it! And I am sure that danh and tme would say the same if you asked them.

111

You didn’t check Yes Or NO. Do you understand that I dont’ equate patriotism with God and that I cannot be “one of the people who are behind all the problems in the world” if I am willing to die for YOUR right to free speech? Basically the comment was BS…
Do you understand this???

112

so you had to drag me back into this.

ok when i said “you are what’s wrong with this world” i meant plural, not you specifically. i though it was evident when i explained it a bit more… “people brainwashed by centuries and centuries of agenda driven literature…” i even reiterated “religious extremists (i.e. people who believe their scripts literally)”

get it?

i still dont know why you even mention your military service… someone accused me of context switching… why? because i pointed out that military and country has nothing to do with god? my expertise is not in using fancy weapons to defend this country, it’s actually in building fancy weapons. it’s funny when someone tries to one-up someone else with irrelevant shit and that same person gets one-uped in return.

how can i live with myself without believing in god? simple. my main focus in life is in improing the quality of life for myself and my loved ones, improving it to the point where i can be sure that my family and I will have little to worry about. i would also like to further my knowledge about the world around me, whether it be technology, history, trivia, etc. “doing myself” is not conducive to my goals and therefore irrational. going to church every sunday and worshiping an abstraction is irrational to me, does not get me any closer to my goals.

i can very much see how someone who is convinced that the world is coming to an end and that they have to fulfill a prophecy will go ahead and “do himself” and his family to bring about the second comming of christ or mohammed (dont trip out on the specifics, im just making a point).

i am a bunch of random molecules… ok so are you. if you need to believe that some supreme being prefers you over others then so be it. i believe people deal with their basic insecuirites in very many ways, believing that some powerful dude is on your side is just another way of dealing with them.

normally when a religious person comes to my door i kindly tell them that i’ve made up my mind about a lot of things and that i’m not interested in a “relationship with God”. some are understanding, others are not. some straight out say im going to hell! lemme just say… anyone who defends his religion to a point where he is hostile and blind to the facts does not have my ear.

oh yeah and cut the israelis are the chosen ones bullshit… that’s just plain ridiculous. obviously some political bullshit that managed to get into this piece of shit book you call the bible.

113

According to your worldview…you have NOTHING to live for. Its all a chasing after the wind…all in vain.
I am just challlenging you in your confidence that there is no afterlife…and no ramifications for how you live your life. Do yourself in…what have you got too loose?..or gain?
I am calling your bluff!LOL!

God believes in you even if YOU deny Him. AND NOTHING YOU SAY WILL CHANGE THAT!!!

The interesting thing is how you God haters and disbelievers are SO passionate about your view! People who do not really care are NOT passionate!
Your attitudes betray your words!..hahaha!!! The reality is that you DO CARE!!!..and ARE CONCERNED ABOUT GOD!!..

Sooo…

God bless and take care!

and be sure to write something nasty back and pepper it up with your foul and empty lanquage.
Your words and tone reflect the darkness in your hearts. And that is sad…

Remember…as long as you are alive…God is waiting for you to come to Him!!

IN Jesus Christ!

114

[quote]To tme and danh: I am throwing down a challenge to you…
Since you do not believe in God…and the afterlife…therefore nothing really matters…Why don’t you go AND DO YOURSELF and your family in?..whats to loose?? wouldn’t it be easier to go ahead and die than to struggle through llife? If there is no afterlife…do whatever you want!!! do whatever YOU think is right…since there is no fixed right or wrong…remember…your truth is not MY truth or anyone elses for that matter.[/quote]

DING…DING…DING…We have a winner folks!!!

Yes you, PeckerDoctor, have just moved all the way to the very top of the “this has to be the all-time stupidest fucking thing I’ve heard or read in my entire life” list. Congratulations!

115

oh man… just when i thought i heard it all…

my oh my…

good luck with everything man. see you in the afterlife.

116

Pecker doctor???..where did you get that stupid idea? OH…maybe you have peckers on the brain!..who knows…

117

tme…I didn’t check out YOUR superheros on that website you put on here…if that is what it was…
everyone who has watched Saturday night live knows the schtick…and it is damn funny!

Glad I don’t have to see that in person though…faggots make me nauseated and the thought of their sex acts is disgusting…and I think most Tmen feel that way…we don’t go around beating up queers…but the thought of what they do makes our balls “all dried up”!

118

i hope the mods will go on and close this thread if we can’t get it together as it’s getting out of hand and much much away from the original post. the bad thing about religious issues like this, when it comes to the spiritual is it’s near impossible to proctor one’s beliefs without infuriating others or at least stepping on some toes inadvertently. one thing taken out of context can skew the issue at hand. this post was about our views of three of the largest organized religions in the world. with the rash of crappy posts that have come about recently due to misplaced pride giving way to mudslinging, we should be aware that this one will be labeled just as the post about women and homosexuals that caused so much controversy.

let’s keep this one on track, men…and women. am i trying to convince you? no. (i would be overjoyed if somehow these words did, but there’s nothing in it for me) are you going to convince me? probably not. but i will listen to what you have to say, digest it, try to learn from you, find out where you are coming from, and then share my ideas as rational or irrational as they may seem. i urge you all to do the same.

119

What does it take for someone to believe there is a Creator? Look around … that’s your evidence.

If you see a building, or a truck or anything that was ‘created’, how do you know it was created? Simply by the fact that it’s there. It’s presence is evidence of there being a creator. You don’t look at a building, not see it’s creator standing beside it, and think that no one created it do you? You don’t think it spontaneously appeared right? People have no problem assuming that the presence of something means there was someone who created it, but question the veracity of a true Creator. It’s inconsistent logic.

120

‘It’s presence is evidence of there being a creator’

So if I look at a puddle it must have been created? By a creator.

It couldn’t be the result of physics perhaps? A puddle is formed when rain falls and collects in a depression. The physical properties of water, its very high surface tension due to extensive hydrogen bonding allow the formation of a puddle.

The rain is created when water particles that surround salt crystals and dust particles thicken and form rain drops. So, the drops, which become heavier than air, depart from the clouds, and start to fall on the ground as rain.

I believe my logic to be consistent in this case. As a man of science I have a hard time believing in a ‘Creator’. The more we begin to understand of our world the less we need for the belief of a creator.