[quote]LittleStrick wrote:
Thanks gents. I figured I was in the weak spot because I can pull 500 in a full DL, but I benefit from the momentum right off the floor. 500 from here might not have gone. Next time I think I’ll move it back up one pin and use the 4 1/2" platform I have, putting it at 2" lower than these. That should be dead center of my weak spot. Once I can pull 500 from there, a new PR will be in the wings.
jjack, the 455 may have looked easy, but it definitely didn’t feel it. At pin 2, no problem. It is amazing the difference those 2 1/2" can make.[/quote]
That height is really really really hard. It’s where the moment arm created by your body is the longest and so it is where you are the weakest. As you noted, when you’ve got momentum you can speed through it. Without that it is a major grind. I’ve never been able to pull from that spot what I can pull from the floor.
[quote]danjo228 wrote:
I’m the same with my deadlift. If I get it an inch off the floor, I can lock it out. I’ve done rack pulls a few times with the Sheiko and just below my knees, it was a muthah to get that weight moving.
I used to sumo in my 20’s and could pull 500 without much training, but then my knee arthritis deteriorated to the point where I had to hang up the sumo. The knee is why I’m in a race to squat 500, then it will just be push-pull meet after that.[/quote]
I did try a set of sumo after the rack pulls…but only 1 set. Having my feet all the way out felt really awkward. Moving them in a bit, it seemed to stress my back more than conventional. Could be that I had no idea on the form. Or, maybe, I am built funny. In either case, I will try them again when the back isn’t already wiped out.
I don’t know how far off of 500 you are, but the squats are looking strong!
[quote]DaCharmingAlbino wrote:
LittleStrick wrote:
Thanks gents. I figured I was in the weak spot because I can pull 500 in a full DL, but I benefit from the momentum right off the floor. 500 from here might not have gone. Next time I think I’ll move it back up one pin and use the 4 1/2" platform I have, putting it at 2" lower than these. That should be dead center of my weak spot. Once I can pull 500 from there, a new PR will be in the wings.
jjack, the 455 may have looked easy, but it definitely didn’t feel it. At pin 2, no problem. It is amazing the difference those 2 1/2" can make.
That height is really really really hard. It’s where the moment arm created by your body is the longest and so it is where you are the weakest. As you noted, when you’ve got momentum you can speed through it. Without that it is a major grind. I’ve never been able to pull from that spot what I can pull from the floor.[/quote]
Sounds like it is a good place to work from, then. I am thinking, though, 2 working sets would have been enough from that height…or a lighter weight. My back is aching like hades, this morning. Not injury ache, just fried ache.
I could have pulled 500 from there, which is encouraging. Maybe alternating between this height and pin 2 would help. I like the 2nd pin because I can move more weight and my body gets a feel for it. But pin 1, and slightly below, is the place that needs the most work.
Fortunately, all the heavy lifting at work is over. We are now in the tedium stage.
[quote]LittleStrick wrote:
danjo228 wrote:
I’m the same with my deadlift. If I get it an inch off the floor, I can lock it out. I’ve done rack pulls a few times with the Sheiko and just below my knees, it was a muthah to get that weight moving.
I used to sumo in my 20’s and could pull 500 without much training, but then my knee arthritis deteriorated to the point where I had to hang up the sumo. The knee is why I’m in a race to squat 500, then it will just be push-pull meet after that.
I did try a set of sumo after the rack pulls…but only 1 set. Having my feet all the way out felt really awkward. Moving them in a bit, it seemed to stress my back more than conventional. Could be that I had no idea on the form. Or, maybe, I am built funny. In either case, I will try them again when the back isn’t already wiped out.
I don’t know how far off of 500 you are, but the squats are looking strong![/quote]
Built funny? In my opinion you are perfectly proportioned for powerlifting with no egregiously long levers.
Sumo does feel extremely weird for conventional DL’ers. I don’t like it much myself, but I find that doing sumo has had really good effects on my glutes and hamstrings and a nice carryover to the squat, since I can still handle more weight sumo from the floor than I can squat. My form is crappy and it looks like a handheld goodmorning, but it still works.
I had to start lighter than I expected just to get the groove and then the weights naturally got easier to do once it was established. I think I started with squat-weight for 8 speed sets of triples and worked up from there once they felt fast.
[quote]DaCharmingAlbino wrote:
Built funny? In my opinion you are perfectly proportioned for powerlifting with no egregiously long levers.
Sumo does feel extremely weird for conventional DL’ers. I don’t like it much myself, but I find that doing sumo has had really good effects on my glutes and hamstrings and a nice carryover to the squat, since I can still handle more weight sumo from the floor than I can squat. My form is crappy and it looks like a handheld goodmorning, but it still works.
I had to start lighter than I expected just to get the groove and then the weights naturally got easier to do once it was established. I think I started with squat-weight for 8 speed sets of triples and worked up from there once they felt fast.[/quote]
I tried it with 225#. In all fairness, though, my back was completely fried. 95# would have felt straining. The RDLs were really hard.
I didn’t take into account how much lowering the bar was going to impact my lower back. That height is a killer.
Thank God it is Friday. Work sucked. I was in a pissy mood when I got home (wife’s PMS must be contagious). I didn’t want to workout. Hell, I didn’t know what I wanted to do and still don’t. I am just restless, agitated and suspect that a nice Lynchburg Lemonade would be the 1st step to recovery…but I don’t drink on days that I workout. Not that I drink anyway, unless you count the 2 beers I have every 1 - 2 months.
Anyway…
Bench
barx15x2
95x15
135x15
185x5
225x3 - yeah, yeah…I went over 185
275x1
225x10
135x30
**Bench felt okay as long as I exagerated my elbow tuck. Couldn’t flare my arms enough for the heavy weights without it hurting. I am SICK of hurting. Think I’ll ask the GP for a pre-workout morphine injection. I would likely end up ruining a couple of joints, but, dammit, I would feel like a man while doing it.
Seated Rows
160x20x3
Tricep Pushdowns - elbows in
70x20
80x15
90x15
100x10
110x10
Standing DB Curls
30sx10
35sx10
40sx10
50sx5
Close Grip Pulldowns
160x12x2
Workout done…no beer in the house…youngest has my recliner…I’m gonna go stew for a bit…
**Bench felt okay as long as I exagerated my elbow tuck. Couldn’t flare my arms enough for the heavy weights without it hurting. I am SICK of hurting. Think I’ll ask the GP for a pre-workout morphine injection. I would likely end up ruining a couple of joints, but, dammit, I would feel like a man while doing it.
…
Workout done…no beer in the house…youngest has my recliner…I’m gonna go stew for a bit…[/quote]
Sorry about the beer…
tough love time: suck it up and give up the higher weights and give that shoulder a chance. go higher reps, not to failure and after a month SLOOOWLY work back up in weight. You don’t have anything to prove to any of us and are doing yourself no favors pushing it. but i don’t know shit so forget what I say and take your clue from maraudermeat and how he rehabbed his injuries…
**Bench felt okay as long as I exagerated my elbow tuck. Couldn’t flare my arms enough for the heavy weights without it hurting. I am SICK of hurting. Think I’ll ask the GP for a pre-workout morphine injection. I would likely end up ruining a couple of joints, but, dammit, I would feel like a man while doing it.
…
Workout done…no beer in the house…youngest has my recliner…I’m gonna go stew for a bit…
Sorry about the beer…
tough love time: suck it up and give up the higher weights and give that shoulder a chance. go higher reps, not to failure and after a month SLOOOWLY work back up in weight. You don’t have anything to prove to any of us and are doing yourself no favors pushing it. but i don’t know shit so forget what I say and take your clue from maraudermeat and how he rehabbed his injuries…[/quote]
lol…thanks soldog.
Actually, I have about convinced myself to make my upper body workouts more 8-15 rep per set workouts, for endurance and lower stress on the joints, until the elbows and shoulder get better. Then I can concentrate the heavy stuff on my legs.
You are right…nothing to prove. So, my pushing it is either stupidity or insanity…either will do.
**Bench felt okay as long as I exagerated my elbow tuck. Couldn’t flare my arms enough for the heavy weights without it hurting. I am SICK of hurting. Think I’ll ask the GP for a pre-workout morphine injection. I would likely end up ruining a couple of joints, but, dammit, I would feel like a man while doing it.
…
Workout done…no beer in the house…youngest has my recliner…I’m gonna go stew for a bit…
Sorry about the beer…
tough love time: suck it up and give up the higher weights and give that shoulder a chance. go higher reps, not to failure and after a month SLOOOWLY work back up in weight. You don’t have anything to prove to any of us and are doing yourself no favors pushing it. but i don’t know shit so forget what I say and take your clue from maraudermeat and how he rehabbed his injuries…
lol…thanks soldog.
Actually, I have about convinced myself to make my upper body workouts more 8-15 rep per set workouts, for endurance and lower stress on the joints, until the elbows and shoulder get better. Then I can concentrate the heavy stuff on my legs.
You are right…nothing to prove. So, my pushing it is either stupidity or insanity…either will do.[/quote]
we’ve all been stupid and insane, but it’s supposed to eventually tone down since we’re past the puberty line of 35… not that i’m a paragon of intelligence and sanity or anything like that
Um - excuse me, but if exaggeratedly tucking your elbows kept it from hurting, mightn’t you keep doing that? A close grip bench press carries over well to “real” bench pressing too. Go light if you need to but go heavy where you can, is my opinion.
[quote]soldog wrote:
we’ve all been stupid and insane, but it’s supposed to eventually tone down since we’re past the puberty line of 35… not that i’m a paragon of intelligence and sanity or anything like that[/quote]
I think the issue is that, while my body realizes I am over 35, 18, just gettng older…my mind still thinks like an 18 year old. These two really need to have a sitdown and sort things out.
[quote]DaCharmingAlbino wrote:
Um - excuse me, but if exaggeratedly tucking your elbows kept it from hurting, mightn’t you keep doing that? A close grip bench press carries over well to “real” bench pressing too. Go light if you need to but go heavy where you can, is my opinion.[/quote]
DCA, that is pretty much the form I have had to use…CGB type elbow tuck with a wide grip. I will give the CGB another try, and see how that feels. It is dealing with the fact that, with this form, the best I can hope for would be a rep at 300. Not moving forward drives me nuts. At this junction, though, it has become a necessity.
On top of that, I feel like I have stagnated on my deads and squats. That might not be the case, but it feels like it. So it is kind of a psychological double whammy.
Take it slow for sure. Why the heck do ya think Im not posting anything yet? Im to embarrassed. Can I be EmbarrassedGuy2 ?
But lets talk about this elbow thing. Im a wide grip bencher. The first time I wore a Titan shirt I had to tuck my elbows in, a lot. At least to me. Took the stress right off my shoulder. Since my shoulder injury, I can tell when I flare out in the slightest. If I stay in my groove with that nice arc, no trouble. So maybe staying tucked is a good thing for you anyway.
I think DCA is right. If you start CGB, your tris will only get stronger. When that happens your bench has to go up.
LS–Nothing wrong with a little higher-rep work. You may even get stronger than you think with this strategy. And there is nothing wrong with hitting legs hard while you rehab the shoulder. Leg work is my favorite anyway.
Also, have you thought about 5-3-1? You seem to have programming ADD like the rest of us, and 5-3-1 is a good cure for this. One of its strengths is that it allows you to go for rep prs every week and gives you a formula to compare these prs with a 1rm. This helps keep me motivated and reduces the temptation to go off the reservation and pull heavy weights in a non-productive fashion. Jim also gives you a way to test maxes every once in a while with a good strategy that does not effect your progress. Best of all, the program takes the guess work out and at the same time lets you work in a higher rep range than you are used to at first (the reps gets lower over time), which may be a good thing for you. I know I am going to milk 5-3-1 until I stop making progress, and I don’t see that happening any time soon.
[quote]63Galaxie wrote:
Take it slow for sure. Why the heck do ya think Im not posting anything yet? Im to embarrassed. Can I be EmbarrassedGuy2 ?
But lets talk about this elbow thing. Im a wide grip bencher. The first time I wore a Titan shirt I had to tuck my elbows in, a lot. At least to me. Took the stress right off my shoulder. Since my shoulder injury, I can tell when I flare out in the slightest. If I stay in my groove with that nice arc, no trouble. So maybe staying tucked is a good thing for you anyway.
I think DCA is right. If you start CGB, your tris will only get stronger. When that happens your bench has to go up.[/quote]
Wait a minute… you’re too embarassed to post? Uh…you bench more than I do! Maybe I should stop posting my bench workouts
I will give the CGB, well tucked, a go. I will also continue with the lighter wide grip, with elbows really tucked.
LS–Nothing wrong with a little higher-rep work. You may even get stronger than you think with this strategy. And there is nothing wrong with hitting legs hard while you rehab the shoulder. Leg work is my favorite anyway.
Also, have you thought about 5-3-1? You seem to have programming ADD like the rest of us, and 5-3-1 is a good cure for this. One of its strengths is that it allows you to go for rep prs every week and gives you a formula to compare these prs with a 1rm. This helps keep me motivated and reduces the temptation to go off the reservation and pull heavy weights in a non-productive fashion. Jim also gives you a way to test maxes every once in a while with a good strategy that does not effect your progress. Best of all, the program takes the guess work out and at the same time lets you work in a higher rep range than you are used to at first (the reps gets lower over time), which may be a good thing for you. I know I am going to milk 5-3-1 until I stop making progress, and I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Something to think about. Good lifting,
Jack [/quote]
Thanks, jjack. I have been contemplating the 5-3-1. I have been holding off, though, until the “beginners” gains stop. Granted, I am not a true beginner, but should qualify, given the 10 year layoff.
My bench has definitely ended it’s “newbie” surge. I am not sure the squats and deadlifts quite have, though. Once the shoulder is better, I will likely start a 5-3-1 on the bench. When the squats an DLs have definitely slowed down, they will cross over as well.
Okay, under the “new plan”, I wasn’t supposed to lift today. I felt like my back had recovered, though, and, quite honestly, was going stir crazy to lift something. Turns out the back wasn’t fully recovered. It was recovered enough, though, for a couple of PRs.
Rack Pulls - Pin 2 - center of the patella
135x10x2
225x5
315x3
405x2
475x1
525x1 - PR +15# - YouTube - Need to get my weight onto my heels. Right heel even comes off the floor.
The grip is definitely strengthening.
I do not find it coincidental that the PRs came nearly a week after I went back on the Alpha Male. I still don’t feel like I did last time, after being on it for a couple of weeks, but definitely felt more in he game.
[quote]LittleStrick wrote:
Okay, under the “new plan”, I wasn’t supposed to lift today. I felt like my back had recovered, though, and, quite honestly, was going stir crazy to lift something. Turns out the back wasn’t fully recovered. It was recovered enough, though, for a couple of PRs.
Rack Pulls - Pin 2 - center of the patella
135x10x2
225x5
315x3
405x2
475x1
525x1 - PR +15# - YouTube - Need to get my weight onto my heels. Right heel even comes off the floor.
The grip is definitely strengthening.
I do not find it coincidental that the PRs came nearly a week after I went back on the Alpha Male. I still don’t feel like I did last time, after being on it for a couple of weeks, but definitely felt more in he game.[/quote]
Solid PRs. Please stop calling yourself a beginner, we know ourselves.
Thanks FF.
I am not claiming to be a beginner. Just that the gains I have enjoyed over the past 5 months are very consistent with the gains that beginners often make. That being the result of not lifting seriously for over a decade.
