Cephalic Carnage: How Do You Train?

Training Bodybuilding
961

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
Hey CC first i want to say thanks for all the time and effort youve put into this thread. Ive read most of it but cant honestly say ive read every page. Also I have a question if you dont mind, Ive been doing the regular body part per week split but would like to hit each body part more.

If i were to do chest/shouders, back/arms, legs, off, repeat, with the first time they get hit doing lower reps no more than 5 and the second time higher reps 12-15, would that be productive? Doing maybe only 3 exercises per bodypart per workout?

I am trying to cut weight while maintaining/gaining strength. I also do HIIT some SS and lots of stairs, since i am trying to get on a fire dept and the physical agility test consist of lots of stairs. The one thing I am worried about is having enough energy to effectively hit the muscle groups with enough energy every workout. Thanks for your time. [/quote]

Training 3 on, 1 off with 3 exercises for each bodypart is probably going to be a bit muchā€¦ Iā€™d go with 2 exercises for most muscle-groups then.

As for that much cardio etc, thatā€™ll likely interfere with your strength gainsā€¦

Hmmmm. I suggest you pick a slightly different 3-way (chest and delts the same day is something Iā€™d not do unless someone were to force meā€¦ And back+arms is going to be a long sessionā€¦) and just train whenever you feel like it and have the time, anywhere from 3-6 days a week.
Focus on your fire dept. stuff and do the weight-training as a side thingā€¦ Earning money is more important than being big :slight_smile:

Is there some sort of Pull-up test as well?

962

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
CC
Still using the three way split you helped me develop. I have been seeing measurable success and visible changes. I need to change some tricep moves. The stack is now to light for pressdowns and my gym does not have a belt for adding weight to dips (But they do have free day careā€¦the only way I can train frequently).

I know a good variety of exercises, but when you start talking triceps you go into acronym mode and I have no idea what you are talking about. Also if it is easy for you to link vids I would appreciate it. I have been doing skip laterals correctly sense that vid was posted. Thanks for your time again.[/quote]

Found what you were looking for by now, or do you still need help?

963

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
howie424 wrote:
CC,

On presses, such as low incline presses and high incline presses (my main chest and shoulder exercises respectively), do you think that a barbell is more useful than a smith machine? My low incline is a working set of 6-8, and high incline 8-12. I use a smith machine because I donā€™t need a spotter, but with a barbell I feel it hits me harder.

Iā€™m wondering if there was a way to manage those without a spotterā€¦change rep range or something? or should I just stick with my rep ranges and tolerate the smith machine.

ā€¦ I do believe he has listed the smith as his fav. piece of equipment in the gym :slight_smile: [/quote] Well, mostly for tricep and shoulder training :slight_smile: [quote]

I wouldnā€™t worry about it if I were you. I train without a spotter and I use the same exercises you doā€¦ if I had a spotter I would use free weights for chest, but I actually prefer the smith for shoulder training.

Iā€™m not trying to speak for CC here, itā€™s just that Iā€™ve asked the same questions of him in the past and so I am just repeating what he told me, basically.[/quote]

If any of you want to change it up or whatever, just use DBā€™s for your incline work or soā€¦

964

[quote]dfoiles wrote:
Hi C_C,

I was hoping you could give me some feedback on a draft of a 4 day BBB routine for my son. We are not able to swing 6 days a week as I am afraid we would miss days here and there. I scheduled each of the main exercises to be performed twice a week. I ditched the calf work. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Day 1 - Endurance (13-15 Reps)
Back/DB Rows
Chest/BB Bench Press [/quote] Do the benching before the back work so that your back wonā€™t be fatigued ā†’ avoid setup break-down [quote]
Bicep/Cable Curls

Day 2 - Endurance (13-15 Reps)
Delts/Hammer Shoulder Press
Triceps/Smith Machine Close Grip Press [/quote] Press towards feet as well as up, full PL setup[quote]
Thighs/Squats
Abs/Decline Situps (weighted)

Day 3 - Strength (10-12 Reps)
Back/Hammer Pulldowns
Chest/Hammer Incline Press
Thighs/Leg Press
Delts/Upright Rows
Biceps/DB Pin Wheel Curls
Triceps/Bent Over Rope Extensions

Day 4 - Power (8-10 Reps)
Thighs/Squats
Chest/BB Bench Press
Back/DB Rows
Delts/Hammer Shoulder Press
Triceps/Smith Machine Close Grip Press
Bicep/Cable Curls

Doug[/quote]

Some things to consider: Squats the same session as bench can be trouble, shoulder-health-wise. Watch out for thatā€¦ If necessary, go with front-squats and just lower the rep rangeā€¦

Hmmm. As I said before, Iā€™m no fan of the 4-day BBB variant, but what can you doā€¦ Good luck! Watch your sonā€™s shoulder health on that one.

965

[quote]trav123456 wrote:
Hey C_C, are coffee shops really popular in Germany? Here in Canada everyone goes to Tim Hortonā€™s coffee shops, I mean those things are packed 24/7 with all kinds of people. I think everyone likes it because of how strong their coffee is. The only place that can compare really is starbucks, but their large is 50 cents more than at Timā€™s so usually youā€™ll only see people in suits and other various high class go to those.[/quote]

:slight_smile:

No idea, actually. I think you get a few cities where they are popular with certain kinds of peopleā€¦ Not in my immediate area, though.

966

[quote]phrangan wrote:
C_C

Can you post your Phil Hernonā€™s variant template. I would like to volunteer as a trainee on the template =)

Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
phrangan wrote:
C_C

Do you have a Phil Hernonā€™s inspired 5-10-15 template for working bodyparts 2 or 3 times per week.
Some variants are known to me. The 5-10-15 is just an example though, you can use practically any 3 rep ranges as long as you have a ā€œheavyā€ one, a ā€œmediumā€ one and a ā€œhighā€ one.
[/quote]

-Uh, basically pick any 3-way split you likeā€¦ (though Iā€™d not go push legs pull, mix the pressing exercises up a bit)
-Train 6 days a week (or perhaps 3 on, 1 off)
-You get three sets per muscle-group, heavy, medium, lightā€¦
-You can do 1-3 exercises per muscle-group (dividing your sets between them), usually just oneā€¦ 2 for the back and tris is probably a good ideaā€¦ Some variants divide back into width and thickness (3 sets each in that case), others donā€™tā€¦
-He liked to do laterals and no overhead pressesā€¦ But thatā€™s up to you.

967

[quote]Patha wrote:
CC,

The routine you helped put together is awesome - 3-way twice a week, it has really fit my goals to T. Also yielding some noticeable growth in my arms for the first time in a while! I know I thanked you earlier in the thread but thanks again.

Anyway I got a little over-anxious with the pinwheels and strained something in my right forearm - I was using straps - I think it was due to to big a weight jump while ramping up. Is there any exercise you would recommend that might hit the brachialis in a similar way that may cause a little less stress on the forearm until I can go back to pinwheels?

I can deal with the pain, its more an issue of progression. Hoping to keep strength up so pinwheel weight stays the same, at minimum, or increases when I can get back to them. Regular hammer curls, maybe?

[/quote]
Let it healā€¦ Switch to a bicep-focused curl for that slot, maybe.

968

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Why do you round your lower back on krocs? Maybe your setup is a bit awkward?

[/quote]

Too much body english I guess. Iā€™ll work on it.

969

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
alit4 wrote:
hi CC

you posted this split in the T-Cell ā€œso many complicated training systemsā€
Fav variants would be
(most recent incarnation)
-Chest, Tris, Quads (no back squats in that case, would go with front or hack or zercher)
-Back, Hams, Abs
-Delts, Traps, Bis
(trusty yates-split that many of my trainees and guys Iā€™m helping out have fallen in love with)
-Chest, Bis, Tris
-Legs, Abs
-Delts, Back
etcā€¦

now i like the idea of this, it would suit my goals for the next 6 months. problem i have at the moment is i am working around a slight shoulder/ elbow/ tendonitis issue which is taking a little time to resolve. this limits the choice or excercises i can use at the moment so as not to aggravate it.

this is what is available to me.
deadlifts: no problem
barbell bench: okay, but definately not dumbells.
close grip/reverse grip: no problem
front squats: no problem, back squats not so good.
dips: okay
pjr pullovers: no problem
pin wheel curls: no problem
seated incline curls :okay
overhead work/lateral raises: tricky at the moment.
ab work: no problem.

definate no noā€™s
any rows, barbell/easy bar curls, dumbell shoulder presses, flyes(any inward pressing/pulling movement.

so question is how would you order this in a 3 way split, i have 4 days a week to train usually.
i prefer to train heavy, 3-5 reps, multi set on primary excercises. autoregulation/ramping fully understood. i like to keep things simple.
arms are my weakest body part.any advice welcome.
cheers ali.

No rows? What kind of shoulder issue/tendonitis do you have? You can do dips no problem? Hmmm.

[/quote]

hmmā€¦ best way to describe? if you rotate your arm outwards the pain is centred on the innermost pointy, boney part of the elbow. something that i have had to deal with occasionally for years now to some degree or another, usually no more than an inconvienience (not enough to prevent an actual movement) just something to put up with, but at the moment it is being aggravated by the movements i listed to the extent it limits the load i can actually handle.

getting better every week at the moment (touch wood). shoulder pain is mainly centred in middle delt spreading down into the tricep, a nuisance but not bad enough to restrict movement.

hopefully, another month/ six weeks whatever should be all gone if iā€™m careful. had a similar thing last year on my other shoulder that was completely cured after 8 weekly sessions of remedial massage, but unfortuately i cannot afford that this time around at the moment (recession blah blah blah).

(dips are ok, but not excactly no problem, if you know what i mean)

970

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
CC
Still using the three way split you helped me develop. I have been seeing measurable success and visible changes. I need to change some tricep moves. The stack is now to light for pressdowns and my gym does not have a belt for adding weight to dips (But they do have free day careā€¦the only way I can train frequently).

I know a good variety of exercises, but when you start talking triceps you go into acronym mode and I have no idea what you are talking about. Also if it is easy for you to link vids I would appreciate it. I have been doing skip laterals correctly sense that vid was posted. Thanks for your time again.

Found what you were looking for by now, or do you still need help?[/quote]

Pathetically still need help!

971

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
MiJuggernaut wrote:
CC
Still using the three way split you helped me develop. I have been seeing measurable success and visible changes. I need to change some tricep moves. The stack is now to light for pressdowns and my gym does not have a belt for adding weight to dips (But they do have free day careā€¦the only way I can train frequently).

I know a good variety of exercises, but when you start talking triceps you go into acronym mode and I have no idea what you are talking about. Also if it is easy for you to link vids I would appreciate it. I have been doing skip laterals correctly sense that vid was posted. Thanks for your time again.
[/quote] Btw, try doing them to lower chest height only for a few sessions and see how you like thatā€¦ I noticed that thatā€™s easier on the shoulder joints in my caseā€¦ [quote]
Found what you were looking for by now, or do you still need help?

Pathetically still need help!

[/quote]
Ok, what was that 3-way like which we put together? The yates one or a different kind?
Post up your complete exercise selection here, may influence the choices.

972

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Why do you round your lower back on krocs? Maybe your setup is a bit awkward?

Too much body english I guess. Iā€™ll work on it.
[/quote]

You should be arching your lower back in any event :slight_smile:

973

[quote]alit4 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
alit4 wrote:
hi CC

you posted this split in the T-Cell ā€œso many complicated training systemsā€
Fav variants would be
(most recent incarnation)
-Chest, Tris, Quads (no back squats in that case, would go with front or hack or zercher)
-Back, Hams, Abs
-Delts, Traps, Bis
(trusty yates-split that many of my trainees and guys Iā€™m helping out have fallen in love with)
-Chest, Bis, Tris
-Legs, Abs
-Delts, Back
etcā€¦

now i like the idea of this, it would suit my goals for the next 6 months. problem i have at the moment is i am working around a slight shoulder/ elbow/ tendonitis issue which is taking a little time to resolve. this limits the choice or excercises i can use at the moment so as not to aggravate it.

this is what is available to me.
deadlifts: no problem
barbell bench: okay, but definately not dumbells.
close grip/reverse grip: no problem
front squats: no problem, back squats not so good.
dips: okay
pjr pullovers: no problem
pin wheel curls: no problem
seated incline curls :okay
overhead work/lateral raises: tricky at the moment.
ab work: no problem.

definate no noā€™s
any rows, barbell/easy bar curls, dumbell shoulder presses, flyes(any inward pressing/pulling movement.

so question is how would you order this in a 3 way split, i have 4 days a week to train usually.
i prefer to train heavy, 3-5 reps, multi set on primary excercises. autoregulation/ramping fully understood. i like to keep things simple.
arms are my weakest body part.any advice welcome.
cheers ali.

No rows? What kind of shoulder issue/tendonitis do you have? You can do dips no problem? Hmmm.

hmmā€¦ best way to describe? if you rotate your arm outwards the pain is centred on the innermost pointy, boney part of the elbow.

something that i have had to deal with occasionally for years now to some degree or another, usually no more than an inconvienience (not enough to prevent an actual movement) just something to put up with, but at the moment it is being aggravated by the movements i listed to the extent it limits the load i can actually handle.

getting better every week at the moment (touch wood). shoulder pain is mainly centred in middle delt spreading down into the tricep, a nuisance but not bad enough to restrict movement.

hopefully, another month/ six weeks whatever should be all gone if iā€™m careful. had a similar thing last year on my other shoulder that was completely cured after 8 weekly sessions of remedial massage, but unfortuately i cannot afford that this time around at the moment (recession blah blah blah).

(dips are ok, but not excactly no problem, if you know what i mean)[/quote]

Urbanski and BushidoBadBoy could potentially help you with that stuffā€¦ I suggest you contact them (particularly if youā€™ve had an MRI doneā€¦ But in any caseā€¦).

If either of them can give you some clue as to what the exact issue may beā€¦ Come back here and tell me what they said.

974

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
fighting_fires wrote:
Hey CC first i want to say thanks for all the time and effort youve put into this thread. Ive read most of it but cant honestly say ive read every page. Also I have a question if you dont mind, Ive been doing the regular body part per week split but would like to hit each body part more.

If i were to do chest/shouders, back/arms, legs, off, repeat, with the first time they get hit doing lower reps no more than 5 and the second time higher reps 12-15, would that be productive? Doing maybe only 3 exercises per bodypart per workout?

I am trying to cut weight while maintaining/gaining strength. I also do HIIT some SS and lots of stairs, since i am trying to get on a fire dept and the physical agility test consist of lots of stairs. The one thing I am worried about is having enough energy to effectively hit the muscle groups with enough energy every workout. Thanks for your time.

Training 3 on, 1 off with 3 exercises for each bodypart is probably going to be a bit muchā€¦ Iā€™d go with 2 exercises for most muscle-groups then.

As for that much cardio etc, thatā€™ll likely interfere with your strength gainsā€¦

Hmmmm. I suggest you pick a slightly different 3-way (chest and delts the same day is something Iā€™d not do unless someone were to force meā€¦ And back+arms is going to be a long sessionā€¦) and just train whenever you feel like it and have the time, anywhere from 3-6 days a week.
Focus on your fire dept. stuff and do the weight-training as a side thingā€¦ Earning money is more important than being big :slight_smile:

Is there some sort of Pull-up test as well?

[/quote]

Thanks for your input on that one. I will try searching for another 3 day split in that case, any recommendations?

As for a pull up test there is not one that i know of in my state for the physical agility test. In the academy maybe, but I am not sure. All i know is that there is a 6 minute stair master at 60 steps a minute with a 75 lb vest on, some hose drags, person drags/carries (possibly 50 lb vest on, but i dont know) as well as a jackhammer section. From what ive heard there is more but I am not sure as to what it is.

975

Mind if I ask your opinion on something C_C?

What do you think of this 2 way split?:

Day 1:

Back width
Delts
Triā€™s
Quads
Calves

Day 2:

Back Thickness
Chest
Biā€™s
Hams
Calves

Ramping up to 2 top sets of 6-8 reps for one exercise per muscle group, and one finisher set. (So like, 3 total sets where I push the limits).

976

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
dfoiles wrote:
Hi C_C,

I was hoping you could give me some feedback on a draft of a 4 day BBB routine for my son. We are not able to swing 6 days a week as I am afraid we would miss days here and there. I scheduled each of the main exercises to be performed twice a week. I ditched the calf work. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Day 1 - Endurance (13-15 Reps)
Back/DB Rows
Chest/BB Bench Press Do the benching before the back work so that your back wonā€™t be fatigued ā†’ avoid setup break-down
Bicep/Cable Curls

Day 2 - Endurance (13-15 Reps)
Delts/Hammer Shoulder Press
Triceps/Smith Machine Close Grip Press Press towards feet as well as up, full PL setup
Thighs/Squats
Abs/Decline Situps (weighted)

Day 3 - Strength (10-12 Reps)
Back/Hammer Pulldowns
Chest/Hammer Incline Press
Thighs/Leg Press
Delts/Upright Rows
Biceps/DB Pin Wheel Curls
Triceps/Bent Over Rope Extensions

Day 4 - Power (8-10 Reps)
Thighs/Squats
Chest/BB Bench Press
Back/DB Rows
Delts/Hammer Shoulder Press
Triceps/Smith Machine Close Grip Press
Bicep/Cable Curls

Doug

Some things to consider: Squats the same session as bench can be trouble, shoulder-health-wise. Watch out for thatā€¦ If necessary, go with front-squats and just lower the rep rangeā€¦

Hmmm. As I said before, Iā€™m no fan of the 4-day BBB variant, but what can you doā€¦ Good luck! Watch your sonā€™s shoulder health on that one. [/quote]

Thanks for the feedback C_C! I will definetely watch out for shoulder health moving forward.

977

[quote]forbes wrote:
Mind if I ask your opinion on something C_C?

What do you think of this 2 way split?:

Day 1:

Back width
Delts
Triā€™s
Quads
Calves

Day 2:

Back Thickness
Chest
Biā€™s
Hams
Calves

Ramping up to 2 top sets of 6-8 reps for one exercise per muscle group, and one finisher set. (So like, 3 total sets where I push the limits).[/quote]

What frequency are you using and what does your exercise selection look like?

978

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
forbes wrote:
Mind if I ask your opinion on something C_C?

What do you think of this 2 way split?:

Day 1:

Back width
Delts
Triā€™s
Quads
Calves

Day 2:

Back Thickness
Chest
Biā€™s
Hams
Calves

Ramping up to 2 top sets of 6-8 reps for one exercise per muscle group, and one finisher set. (So like, 3 total sets where I push the limits).

What frequency are you using and what does your exercise selection look like?
[/quote]

Iā€™m using a 3x per week frequency, alternating between the two workouts.

Exercise selection is as follows:

Day 1:

Back width - Wide grip pullup
Delts - Barbell shoulder press
Triā€™s - Overhead extension with EZ curl bar
Quads - Front squat
Calves - Seated calve raise

Day 2:

Back Thickness - T-bar row
Chest - Incline barbell press
Biā€™s - Barbell curl
Hams - SLDL
Calves - Calve jump (yes, I know its not optimal, but standing calve raises hurt the soles of my feet, and if I do enough sets of these, my calves are fried)

I donā€™t plan on using an exercise rotation. Iā€™ll just switch exercises when I stall on one. The finisher exercise contributes to exercise variety.

BTW, I finished my first workout today. I think Iā€™ll have to drop down to one work set with my top weight and one finishing set. It was brutal!

979

Iā€™ve read all 40 pages of this mammoth thread.

I donā€™t need a program as I am successfully using 5/3/1 for almost a year now.

My problem is that I have a mild case of tendinitis or tennis elbow. It gets sore, but not painful. My chest assistance is weighted dips which I really enjoy. Is there a just as good or better alternative to dips?

980

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Iā€™ve read all 40 pages of this mammoth thread.

I donā€™t need a program as I am successfully using 5/3/1 for almost a year now.

My problem is that I have a mild case of tendinitis or tennis elbow. It gets sore, but not painful. My chest assistance is weighted dips which I really enjoy. Is there a just as good or better alternative to dips?[/quote]

I hate chest training :slight_smile:

Bench off the pins, DB Bench, Hammerstrength lying flat pressā€¦ I donā€™t like dips much for shoulder and elbow healthā€¦ Go ask BushidoBadBoy and/or urbanski about how to fix that elbow issue of yours, they might be able to help.