In general is it better to have all your carbs spread out in your workout day and then go low carb the next day (off day) or just to keep the carbs to pre workout, pwo, and the 1 meal after, and then to eat more carbs the next day at breakfast instead? When will your muscles be more likely to uptake the carbs?
The first option would allow for more of a cycle of carbs, but sometimes I think it is good to have some carbs on off days?
In my opinion, it depends how you respond to carbs in general.
In an endo, so I tend to have carbs in the morning then I have P+F meals until my workout, then a PWO shake and a a carb meal after that.
The morning after, on a non workout day I’ll have 2 carb meals (biggest one in the morning) and then P+F meals the rest of the day - this is really to keep my fat gains minimal.
Also, I feel better having a P+F meal before a workout, some people prefer a carb meal - again, see what works best for you.
That’s a very broad question Sarah. Are you trying to gain or lose weight? And as rsg said- how carb tolerant are you? It also depends on your NEPA levels and just your overall level of health.
To answer your first question- it has been stated that it’s BEST to have all of your carbs in the day in your workout window, rather than spread out. This is a good generalization for most people. Off days depend on you.
Thanks. I guess what I’m wondering is what the PWO window is. Is it just immediately pre, during and PWO, and 1 hr. PWO, or does it extend to the next meal?
I am currently very lean, trying to gain clean mass. However, I have been eating low carb for a long time so I don’t know how tolerant I am.
Currently I wake up, eat whey + 1 c. berries, workout, have 1/3 serving of Surge + 1/2 scoop of whey, come home and eat some shrimp and a few cups of green beans and usually some more berries. Sometimes I have been skipping the berries recently. So that totals about 40g. of carbs peri workout.
Then I have another 40 in green veggies throughout the day, so I guess my carbs are not really THAT localized.
I am planning on upping the carbs a bit. So if I do, should I just have those extra carbs come just in the shake (more Surge) and maybe the meal 1 hr post, or should I add a whole extra C+P meal? Normally the next meal is my primary fat of the day - salmon and veggies. Is it bad to be having a big whop of fat just 4hr. pwo? Should I still be having carbs?
Also, is it better to have only something small pre-bed on workout days and wake up ravenous and eat more at breakfasy, or to have more pre bed?
[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Thanks. I guess what I’m wondering is what the PWO window is. Is it just immediately pre, during and PWO, and 1 hr. PWO, or does it extend to the next meal? [/quote]
It extends to the next meal.
So that next meal is more optimal for carbs than the next morning? I guess I’m curious how sensitive you really are in the morning…
[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Normally the next meal is my primary fat of the day - salmon and veggies. Is it bad to be having a big whop of fat just 4hr. pwo? Should I still be having carbs?
[/quote]
I think I remember reading Berardi saying your carb sensitivity extends until about 3hrs after your WO. I would have your C+P meal an hour after your PWO drink, then salmon and veggies 3 hours after that. 4 hours after your WO is a while, you’ll be fine.
The workout window is typically right before until about 3 hours afterward. It does not necessarily extend to the next meal and most certainly does not extend to the next day.
I think it depends on your workout. The studies I’ve seen that talk about the window extending 6 hours after a workout are all referring to long distance running or biking, ie genuine carb depleting activities. I’m not so sure that an hour of lifting creates quite the same stimulus. I would be inclined to think one post-workout meal is all a weight lifting workout is good for, if that.
[quote]atypicaluser wrote:
I think it depends on your workout. The studies I’ve seen that talk about the window extending 6 hours after a workout are all referring to long distance running or biking, ie genuine carb depleting activities. I’m not so sure that an hour of lifting creates quite the same stimulus. I would be inclined to think one post-workout meal is all a weight lifting workout is good for, if that.[/quote]
But you are not depleting your glycogen with extended endurance activities, you’re just burning calories. IMO no cardio type activities create a true PWO window. Meaning… you are not more tolerant to carbs than you normally would be in a window after running/cardio like you are in a window post weight training. There have been several articles about this and I think even the Surge product thread touches on this.
There are exceptions- lifting weights with little pink dumbbells does not create a PWO scenario, but running a marathon might.
Depends on what you mean by window. The point of carbohydrates + amino acids/protein post workout is to squash catabolism. The high Glycemic Load carbs raise blood sugar promoting and insulin response, insulin is the “storage” horemone which shuttles the amino acids and other nutrients into your muscles to stop protein degradation. This means that time is a priority. I try and work with a window of about a half hour post workout. Soon er is better, but there is a longer “window” post workout where more carbohydrates are beneficial.
I am a FFB who is cutting. I have consume some carbs, 100-150g most days with 100-150 + Surge on workout days.
It works for me, I am now about 13lbs leaner than my avatar and about ready to transition into a slow mass gaining phase. I plan on alternating between roughly maintenance on non lifting days and maintenance + 400ish on lifting days. I will be pretty liberal with my carb intake earlier in the day, but will limit after mid afternoon. I feel this will be a good way to go about it.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
But you are not depleting your glycogen with extended endurance activities, you’re just burning calories. IMO no cardio type activities create a true PWO window. [/quote]
Surely that depends on y ofour defination of window, but endurance training (unless very very light) will always deplete glycogen stores to some extent (the degree of this being dependent on the length and intesity of the endurance training.
[quote]Zagman wrote:
Depends on what you mean by window. The point of carbohydrates + amino acids/protein post workout is to squash catabolism. The high Glycemic Load carbs raise blood sugar promoting and insulin response, insulin is the “storage” horemone which shuttles the amino acids and other nutrients into your muscles to stop protein degradation. This means that time is a priority. I try and work with a window of about a half hour post workout. Soon er is better, but there is a longer “window” post workout where more carbohydrates are beneficial.
I am a FFB who is cutting. I have consume some carbs, 100-150g most days with 100-150 + Surge on workout days.
It works for me, I am now about 13lbs leaner than my avatar and about ready to transition into a slow mass gaining phase. I plan on alternating between roughly maintenance on non lifting days and maintenance + 400ish on lifting days. I will be pretty liberal with my carb intake earlier in the day, but will limit after mid afternoon. I feel this will be a good way to go about it.[/quote]
Is that really enough calories to grow though? Assuming you lift 3days/wk, it’ll take you 3 weeks to gain a pound.
[quote]Dubbz wrote:
Zagman wrote:
Depends on what you mean by window. The point of carbohydrates + amino acids/protein post workout is to squash catabolism. The high Glycemic Load carbs raise blood sugar promoting and insulin response, insulin is the “storage” horemone which shuttles the amino acids and other nutrients into your muscles to stop protein degradation. This means that time is a priority. I try and work with a window of about a half hour post workout. Soon er is better, but there is a longer “window” post workout where more carbohydrates are beneficial.
I am a FFB who is cutting. I have consume some carbs, 100-150g most days with 100-150 + Surge on workout days.
It works for me, I am now about 13lbs leaner than my avatar and about ready to transition into a slow mass gaining phase. I plan on alternating between roughly maintenance on non lifting days and maintenance + 400ish on lifting days. I will be pretty liberal with my carb intake earlier in the day, but will limit after mid afternoon. I feel this will be a good way to go about it.
Is that really enough calories to grow though? Assuming you lift 3days/wk, it’ll take you 3 weeks to gain a pound.
[/quote]
Maybe, but I will adjust on the fly. Gaining 17lbs lean that way a year would be great, but not likely to happen. If it isn’t enough, I will just adjust it higher, or switch to maintenance + 200/ m + 700. More of a concept point.
And I lift 4 days a week on an upper/lower split.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
But you are not depleting your glycogen with extended endurance activities, you’re just burning calories. IMO no cardio type activities create a true PWO window. Meaning… you are not more tolerant to carbs than you normally would be in a window after running/cardio like you are in a window post weight training. There have been several articles about this and I think even the Surge product thread touches on this. [/quote]
This is flat out wrong.
[quote]HK24719 wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
But you are not depleting your glycogen with extended endurance activities, you’re just burning calories. IMO no cardio type activities create a true PWO window. Meaning… you are not more tolerant to carbs than you normally would be in a window after running/cardio like you are in a window post weight training. There have been several articles about this and I think even the Surge product thread touches on this.
This is flat out wrong.[/quote]
How so oh wise one or do you just like to say someone is wrong without knowing why?
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
HK24719 wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
But you are not depleting your glycogen with extended endurance activities, you’re just burning calories. IMO no cardio type activities create a true PWO window. Meaning… you are not more tolerant to carbs than you normally would be in a window after running/cardio like you are in a window post weight training. There have been several articles about this and I think even the Surge product thread touches on this.
This is flat out wrong.
How so oh wise one or do you just like to say someone is wrong without knowing why?[/quote]
And let me reiterate my point that cardio activities don’t DEPLETE glycogen. I never said they don’t use any at all, just not enough to warrant a carb infused PWO drink. A regular meal would be sufficient. I believe most of the authors/coaches on here would agree.