any other comments
I’ve actually been doing something like this the past 2 weeks. I’ve been taking in only MAG-10/Metabolic Drive Low Carb for the entire day prior to lifting. Then I take the Anaconda Protocol, lift and then eat everything I can find until I pass out. (This includes pre-bed trips to Jack in the Box, cheetos, etc, but still lots of protein)
Needless to say, I’m fucking shocked with the result. I’m significantly leaner and I jumped from 210lb to 213.5lb. Also, eating like this I’m almost certainly below maintenance calories yet I am still growing.
Has anybody tried this while dropping bodyfat? I’m thinking of doing it with below maintainence calories, high protein, moderate carb and moderate fat. instead of just downing carbs like nothing i would probably be using high doses of leucine to try to achieve that insulin spike. can anyone spot out something i missed out in there? if not i’ll be starting this in a few days time, will report back soon 
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I think there is a fundamental problem in the backloading approach, (besides the two massive assumptions he makes which may or may not betrue - that muscle recieves its biggest signal to grow immediately PWO, and that me can maintain full glycogen stores, without carbs, before the next lifting session - both of which I disagree with to a point), that being one of PWO insulin sensitivity and appetite.
Personally, resistance exercise is a very stressful (though enjoyable) event, full of eustress. Afterwards, I rarely feel like eating solid food. There is a reason for this; because my muscles are not willing to uptake glycogen, or rather, they would be, if they weren’t temporarily resistant to insulin.
I have tried eating lots of carbs PWo and it got ugly. But then, I didn’t et super-low-carb preworkout, so I only saw half the picture I suppose.
Anyway, for those of us who bloat out with PWO carbs, I recommend sticking to the ‘prefueling’ idea, rather than the refueling/backloading concept as outlined here.
Just my opinion.
BBB[/quote]
I feel the same way about solid food post workout, but recently I have found that if I take 300mg phosphatidylserine post-workout I am ravenously hungry within 20minutes, presumably due to the lowering of cortisol. Without it, it takes me roughly 1-1.5 hours before I get hungry.
Needless to say, it has become a staple supplement, despite its cost.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I think there is a fundamental problem in the backloading approach, (besides the two massive assumptions he makes which may or may not betrue - that muscle recieves its biggest signal to grow immediately PWO, and that me can maintain full glycogen stores, without carbs, before the next lifting session - both of which I disagree with to a point), that being one of PWO insulin sensitivity and appetite.
Personally, resistance exercise is a very stressful (though enjoyable) event, full of eustress. Afterwards, I rarely feel like eating solid food. There is a reason for this; because my muscles are not willing to uptake glycogen, or rather, they would be, if they weren’t temporarily resistant to insulin.
I have tried eating lots of carbs PWo and it got ugly. But then, I didn’t et super-low-carb preworkout, so I only saw half the picture I suppose.
Anyway, for those of us who bloat out with PWO carbs, I recommend sticking to the ‘prefueling’ idea, rather than the refueling/backloading concept as outlined here.
Just my opinion.
BBB[/quote]
Insulin isn’t even necessary post-workout, because resistance training in and of itself causes GLUT-4 translocation. Regardless, the insulin resistance is short-lived, is it not?
I’ve been using 100g of maltodextrin starting about 15 minutes into my workout along with a scoop of Anaconda, finishing the mixture shortly after I get home. I eat maybe an hour and a half after my workout. I’m usually hungry a couple hours after that, even sooner if I don’t stuff myself. All meals are pretty even mixes, maybe 30/40/30 PCF. Scale isn’t really moving (still trying to eat enough while barely eating before my workout), but whereas my strength didn’t budge on the Anaconda protocol, my numbers keep going up with backloading.
Personally I bloat with carbs no matter what. Whenever I sneak in a low carb day or otherwise drop some water weight I can see that I’m a bit leaner and noticeably larger than when I started this whole thing. I’ve done my carbs every way imaginable and I’ve never seen results like this.
Haha I agree, which is why I always defer to my own experience. The “science” gives me a reason to try something, the results give me a reason to continue. For the guys who always did well with traditional PW carbs, I think backloading is probably the way to go. For those who responded well to moving carbs pre-workout, maybe it isn’t a great idea! But you never know until you try. I’m not surprised that athletes respond to pre-workout carbs.
I’ve been recommending back-loading to all my average Joe friends. If I was still training clients I’d go that route too. I find most people already go light on breakfast, moderate lunch, and big dinner. And psychologically it seems easier to say, “don’t eat until this time,” versus, “stop eating after this time.”
It can be many causes for your issues, food choice and timing being the most likely. As CT has alluded to there can be some disturbances in insulin and glucose kinetics immediately PWO due to catecholamines, so delaying your carb intake by some 20-40min might alleviate any problems. Or just wait until you’re hungry. It could be as simple as reactive hypoglycemia.
If you had some carbs+protein or BCAAs pre-workout it shouldn’t affect protein synthesis at all.
I think it’s safe to say that insulin sensitivity is definitely enhanced in muscle post-workout unless you induced a lot of myofibril disruption from eccentric overload.
A couple of studies indicate to pre-workout carbs being less than optimal, discussed on Martin Berkhan’s blog (it’s not conclusive, but interesting nonetheless)
Study weakness: acute study, the 4hr post-WO study was slightly in favor of non-fasted on some signaling factors, we don’t really now how this impacts long term hypertrophy.
Hypothetically you could receive the same benefits by limiting carbs, and not protein, but I hope we get to see follow-up studies on this as the breakfast meal in this study was a pretty hefty amount of carbs (150g).
- endurance training, but interesting nonetheless, as the fasted group had an over 50% increase in resting glycogen simply by placing the carbs in the post-WO period.
…but yeah, people seem to do fine with both pre-WO and/or post-WO loading of carbs so until we get a real comparative long-term study we have to rely on anecdote.
edit: alright, I see links to blogs are prohibited here, so if you want to know which studies I’m talking about, go to Martin Berkhans blog, use the Fasted Training filter/label in the right hand menu (scroll down a page or so), then scroll down to the posts on Fasted Training Boosts Endurance and Muscle Glycogen - as well as Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth?
Or use the search function.
I think it’s a neat topic and something I tinker around with a lot.
I’ve had totally mixed results. Some of my best workouts (stronger for longer) have come from loading up on protein and fat about an hour before lifting, then taking in carbs pwo. But then I’ve also managed to gain a good bit of muscle when taking protein/ small amount of carbs pre, then protein and lots of carbs post. It’s almost like it varies from week to week.
The only thing I truly cannot do is ingest anything but water during a workout. Every workout drink I’ve ever tried, be it something I’ve bought, or concocted myself, may as well be cough syrup.
I’ve been doing Dr. di Pasquales AD for at least one and a half years and would like to incorporate some carbs back into my diet post workout. Has any one gone from the AD to low carb approach successfully because I would live some pointers. I think a few carbs may give my metabolism the spark it needs to burn that LAST BIT OF BELLYFAT that I can’t lose. I bekieve my body has become complacent with the AD and needs a small change.
FYI - there’s a new research review up on Martin’s blog, showing insulin sensitivity improvements and quite possibly favorable changes in body composition under calorie surplus conditions in fasted vs. fed training.
[quote]Blade_MyR wrote:
FYI - there’s a new research review up on Martin’s blog, showing insulin sensitivity improvements and quite possibly favorable changes in body composition under calorie surplus conditions in fasted vs. fed training.[/quote]
Thanks for the heads up blade
Just wanted to bump this thread and see if there are any new results regarding the back-loading protocol.
I’m about to start a bulk and I’m debating between front-loading and back-loading carbs. I look forward to further insight on the topic.
i had a quick question. what do you guys do for your non training days? in terms of what you eat, carb consumption etc. thanks.
[quote]Marlind wrote:
currently I am not following any protocol except eating a snickers before training and drinking some grape juice(250ml) during,but this article mad em think if i should give it a try,mu current carb protocol suck donkey balls so maybe this will give better results,I am currently on the 3 week of big beyond belief(grueling srslY),so do you think i should give it a try or is it total bollocks?
http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/carb-back-loading/[/quote]
Ha, I lol’d.
Friend: Been hitting the gym? What’s your routine look like.
OP: Well, right before workout, I usually eat a Snickers bar, then I drink a bunch of Kool Aid (grape juice, kool aid–same thing) while I’m training.
Friend: So I’m guessing that you go home for a cookie dinner later with cheesecake dessert?
backloading is the only way to live…
I have done backloading for 3 weeks now, after a long time of ultralow carb with refeeds. Now I’m doing a shake or two, with leucine, fiber ,protein and creatine, up until training, then a great amount of carbs, mostly startch, after training .
So far i have hard great results. A noticeable increase in strength and mass, plus a drop of 10lbs of disgusting fat. plus its a really comfortable way of eating. Not a lot of stress around meal planning and tupperware. Just need to carry a smartshaker with a couple of shakes with me to school and work, then eat big when i get home.