[quote]Razamataz wrote:
This is pretty much the apporach I’ve been using for a while since reading Berardi’s ‘Grappler’s Guide to Sports Nutrition’. It’s worked great for me.[/quote]
So I am assuming that you have experience an overall improvement in body composition since incorporating carb backloading?
Great articles, i homed in on this bit:
“Imagine waiting until 3 or 4 in the evening to lift. Not eating carbs up to this point, neither fat nor muscle has had much of a signal to grow. After training, the consumption of carbs begins en masse, starting with the post-workout shake containing copious amounts of a simple carbohydrate powder. A massive growth signal ensues, but in the evening after lifting, only muscle can take advantage of the signal and not body fat. This effect continues on through the night until bedtime. No more back-fat growth; no more beer-belly expansion; no more second chin. Back-loading carbs in the day tunes the body to grow primarily muscle.”
The sooner one trains+eats, the sooner one grows? This ties in with Strongman competitors, all the ones i’ve seen are up at 5am training on a massive breakfast.
Doesn’t it also suggest that training later in the day can be manipulated to have the same fatloss, if you delay the carbs with it, but doesn’t that mean you spend less time growing?
My own trials don’t relate to the fatloss part, but the gowing part. I’m useless at getting up early, and for 90% of my training life i trained in the afternoon (when not at work) or afterwork in the evenings and had moderate success (comparative to next obs.) but when training first thing in the morning, despite feeling weaker and being knackered, not only regularly set PRs but also regained/increased strength/muscle alot quicker.
I didn’t gain fat with this either, as by virtue of training first thing in the morning, you’ve not given yourself enough time to eat, so you eat after, so you’re backloading by default.
's what i noticed, anyway. I train in the mornings now. 
H
[quote]2thepain wrote:
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
This is pretty much the apporach I’ve been using for a while since reading Berardi’s ‘Grappler’s Guide to Sports Nutrition’. It’s worked great for me.[/quote]
So I am assuming that you have experience an overall improvement in body composition since incorporating carb backloading?[/quote]
Not only improved body composition, but much better recovery. I wasn’t following any kind of plan, just kind of eating what I though was “right” (whatever the hell that means) I was training 20hrs/week of BJJ and constantly overtraining and losing weight. Part of my sucess was just eating more protein, using supplements (this is the first thing I did and it was day and night), and more vegtables. I don’t know if it really had anything to do with what I was eating carbs, but I’ve stuck with this approach even when lifting (and not doing BJJ) and it’s allowed me to put on muscle without increasing my bf%.
[quote]huscarl wrote:
Great articles, i homed in on this bit:
“Imagine waiting until 3 or 4 in the evening to lift. Not eating carbs up to this point, neither fat nor muscle has had much of a signal to grow. After training, the consumption of carbs begins en masse, starting with the post-workout shake containing copious amounts of a simple carbohydrate powder. A massive growth signal ensues, but in the evening after lifting, only muscle can take advantage of the signal and not body fat. This effect continues on through the night until bedtime. No more back-fat growth; no more beer-belly expansion; no more second chin. Back-loading carbs in the day tunes the body to grow primarily muscle.”
The sooner one trains+eats, the sooner one grows? This ties in with Strongman competitors, all the ones i’ve seen are up at 5am training on a massive breakfast.
Doesn’t it also suggest that training later in the day can be manipulated to have the same fatloss, if you delay the carbs with it, but doesn’t that mean you spend less time growing?
My own trials don’t relate to the fatloss part, but the gowing part. I’m useless at getting up early, and for 90% of my training life i trained in the afternoon (when not at work) or afterwork in the evenings and had moderate success (comparative to next obs.) but when training first thing in the morning, despite feeling weaker and being knackered, not only regularly set PRs but also regained/increased strength/muscle alot quicker.
I didn’t gain fat with this either, as by virtue of training first thing in the morning, you’ve not given yourself enough time to eat, so you eat after, so you’re backloading by default.
's what i noticed, anyway. I train in the mornings now.
H[/quote]
The earlier, the better…to a point. It seemed like he was looking for 6-8 hours of carb loading after the workout. You could do this earlier in the day, but the problem then is that fat cells are still insulin sensitive. So the ideal time to train is whatever gives you only those 6-8 hrs. Said another way, you want to train early enough to give you time to eat all those carbs, but late enough so that fat cells are not very sensitive to insulin.
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
[quote]2thepain wrote:
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
This is pretty much the apporach I’ve been using for a while since reading Berardi’s ‘Grappler’s Guide to Sports Nutrition’. It’s worked great for me.[/quote]
So I am assuming that you have experience an overall improvement in body composition since incorporating carb backloading?[/quote]
Not only improved body composition, but much better recovery. I wasn’t following any kind of plan, just kind of eating what I though was “right” (whatever the hell that means) I was training 20hrs/week of BJJ and constantly overtraining and losing weight. Part of my sucess was just eating more protein, using supplements (this is the first thing I did and it was day and night), and more vegtables. I don’t know if it really had anything to do with what I was eating carbs, but I’ve stuck with this approach even when lifting (and not doing BJJ) and it’s allowed me to put on muscle without increasing my bf%.
[/quote]
Good to hear. I was originally concerned about going into workouts in a carb depleted state but it sounds as if it really was not a factor for yourself. It sounds as if your Workouts were strong and productive.
Super Human Radio. Episode #451 plus a follow up episode #501 by Dr Di Pasquale. In short, an intelligent discussion as to why carbs, including high GI carbs like dextrose, close the metabolic window with a bang.
On another note, there is no such thing as a carb depleted state. Your body does not burn carbs. It burns glucose. The carbs are converted to glucose for the body to use. If you eat a lot of carbs then your body will prefer carbs for fuel. If not, you won’t die, get small or weak. Your body will just find other sources for glucose such as ingested fats or, wait for it, BODY FAT!!! Coooool huh?
I follow the Metabolic/Anabolic diet. 30g carbs max per day, all from fibrous vegetables. I have carbs on the weekend only. I eat protein and fat an hour before training, some BCAA’s and glutamine pre and post training, my post workout meal is steak and broccoli. I am stronger, bigger and leaner every month. Go figure.
[quote]huscarl wrote:
Great articles, i homed in on this bit:
“Imagine waiting until 3 or 4 in the evening to lift. Not eating carbs up to this point, neither fat nor muscle has had much of a signal to grow. After training, the consumption of carbs begins en masse, starting with the post-workout shake containing copious amounts of a simple carbohydrate powder. A massive growth signal ensues, but in the evening after lifting, only muscle can take advantage of the signal and not body fat. This effect continues on through the night until bedtime. No more back-fat growth; no more beer-belly expansion; no more second chin. Back-loading carbs in the day tunes the body to grow primarily muscle.”
The sooner one trains+eats, the sooner one grows? This ties in with Strongman competitors, all the ones i’ve seen are up at 5am training on a massive breakfast.
Doesn’t it also suggest that training later in the day can be manipulated to have the same fatloss, if you delay the carbs with it, but doesn’t that mean you spend less time growing?
My own trials don’t relate to the fatloss part, but the gowing part. I’m useless at getting up early, and for 90% of my training life i trained in the afternoon (when not at work) or afterwork in the evenings and had moderate success (comparative to next obs.) but when training first thing in the morning, despite feeling weaker and being knackered, not only regularly set PRs but also regained/increased strength/muscle alot quicker.
I didn’t gain fat with this either, as by virtue of training first thing in the morning, you’ve not given yourself enough time to eat, so you eat after, so you’re backloading by default.
's what i noticed, anyway. I train in the mornings now.
H[/quote]
You missed the point of backloading. Did you see the first sentence?
“Imagine waiting until 3 or 4 in the evening to lift.”
The article explains that with the backloading strategy, you DO NOT WANT insulin in the morning because insulin sensitivity is naturally higher – in BOTH muscle and fat cells. By waiting to raise insulin in the evening, when sensitivity is lower in both fat and muscle, but then selectively raise it in muscle by training, the insulin is used more to build muscle than fat.
You can’t get this effect by training in the morning because insulin sensitivity is higher in the fat cells at that time.
[quote]iamthewolf wrote:
yeah i read this as well. i’m coming out of a low carb phase so as i’m adding them back in i’m going to back load just to see what it’s like.[/quote]
Did you indeed start this? If so, how is it going?
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
I just started working with Keifer on this this week. if I remember, I will post back in a bit.
Jason[/quote]
How is this going Jason?
[quote]Mateus wrote:
[quote]iamthewolf wrote:
yeah i read this as well. i’m coming out of a low carb phase so as i’m adding them back in i’m going to back load just to see what it’s like.[/quote]
Did you indeed start this? If so, how is it going?
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
I just started working with Keifer on this this week. if I remember, I will post back in a bit.
Jason[/quote]
How is this going Jason?[/quote]
Thus far, ~2 weeks in, BF% is down 1.5% with no change in scale weight, Im still at 302lbs. I like it. It lets me eat like total shit in the evening. Strength is still getting better as well. Hit 580 and 240lbs of chains for a double off of a box last week.
Jason
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
[quote]Mateus wrote:
[quote]iamthewolf wrote:
yeah i read this as well. i’m coming out of a low carb phase so as i’m adding them back in i’m going to back load just to see what it’s like.[/quote]
Did you indeed start this? If so, how is it going?
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
I just started working with Keifer on this this week. if I remember, I will post back in a bit.
Jason[/quote]
How is this going Jason?[/quote]
Thus far, ~2 weeks in, BF% is down 1.5% with no change in scale weight, Im still at 302lbs. I like it. It lets me eat like total shit in the evening. Strength is still getting better as well. Hit 580 and 240lbs of chains for a double off of a box last week.
Jason
[/quote]
Nice! How are you handling your macros (if at all) in the evening once the binging begins Do you have target carbs, p, and f, or just going all out whenever your hungry at night?
Started it yesterday myself. We’ll see how it goes.
Cool stuff Jason, keep up with the updates if you can!
I’ve experimented with this approach now for the past 3-4 weeks and have to say that I am dismayed with my results. I saw better overall body composition and better overall strength gains, personally, when I had 1-2 carb meals before my workouts and at least 1 carb meal after my workouts.
I really think packing in my carbs before my workouts and not having any after has hindered my gains. Obviously this is my own personal experience, but I just thought I should post my results after experimenting with it.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I’ve experimented with this approach now for the past 3-4 weeks and have to say that I am dismayed with my results. I saw better overall body composition and better overall strength gains, personally, when I had 1-2 carb meals before my workouts and at least 1 carb meal after my workouts.
I really think packing in my carbs before my workouts and not having any after has hindered my gains. Obviously this is my own personal experience, but I just thought I should post my results after experimenting with it.[/quote]
Very interesting.
Are you going to continue this way?
Edit. Ooops I read this wrong, and I agree with other 2 posters–unless that’s a typo’— your doing it wrong.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I’ve experimented with this approach now for the past 3-4 weeks and have to say that I am dismayed with my results. I saw better overall body composition and better overall strength gains, personally, when I had 1-2 carb meals before my workouts and at least 1 carb meal after my workouts.
I really think packing in my carbs before my workouts and not having any after has hindered my gains. Obviously this is my own personal experience, but I just thought I should post my results after experimenting with it.[/quote]
The concept entails low-carbs until your workout, then packing in the carbs. Unless you mistyped something, it sounds like you did the exact opposite, i.e. eliminated carbs post-workout?
[quote]Blade_MyR wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I’ve experimented with this approach now for the past 3-4 weeks and have to say that I am dismayed with my results. I saw better overall body composition and better overall strength gains, personally, when I had 1-2 carb meals before my workouts and at least 1 carb meal after my workouts.
I really think packing in my carbs before my workouts and not having any after has hindered my gains. Obviously this is my own personal experience, but I just thought I should post my results after experimenting with it.[/quote]
The concept entails low-carbs until your workout, then packing in the carbs. Unless you mistyped something, it sounds like you did the exact opposite, i.e. eliminated carbs post-workout?[/quote]
I have to agree with the myoreps guy.
The whole point of this is similar to the way Berardi used to prescribe with the P+F and P+C meals. I know he uses AT and PW meals now, but its a similar concept of eating P+F before & leading up to your workouts then P+C during and after.
You look ripped (homo?) so you know what works for you, but you didn’t change the quality of your diet, did you? Because it sounds like some people on this board and others have taken this whole carb back-loading to an extreme whilst eating shittier.
[quote]Blade_MyR wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I’ve experimented with this approach now for the past 3-4 weeks and have to say that I am dismayed with my results. I saw better overall body composition and better overall strength gains, personally, when I had 1-2 carb meals before my workouts and at least 1 carb meal after my workouts.
I really think packing in my carbs before my workouts and not having any after has hindered my gains. Obviously this is my own personal experience, but I just thought I should post my results after experimenting with it.[/quote]
The concept entails low-carbs until your workout, then packing in the carbs. Unless you mistyped something, it sounds like you did the exact opposite, i.e. eliminated carbs post-workout?[/quote]
Completely placed this in the wrong thread, good catch. I have been experimenting with front loading my carbs with no carbs during or after my workouts, thank you for correcting me.
I am going to switch back to having 1-2 high carbs meals pre-workout and one carb meal post-workout, which was my old eating style and seemed to work much better than front loading.
*I just wanted to underscore how important it is to experiment with your diet to find what works for you. Just because a new article has been published or someone else has experienced tremendous benefits from a certain method doesn’t necessarily make it the best fit for you. Experiment, learn, grow.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]Blade_MyR wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
*I just wanted to underscore how important it is to experiment with your diet to find what works for you. Just because a new article has been published or someone else has experienced tremendous benefits from a certain method doesn’t necessarily make it the best fit for you. Experiment, learn, grow.
[/quote]
x2 QFT
[quote]ADvanced TS wrote:
I have to agree with the myoreps guy.
The whole point of this is similar to the way Berardi used to prescribe with the P+F and P+C meals. I know he uses AT and PW meals now, but its a similar concept of eating P+F before & leading up to your workouts then P+C during and after.
You look ripped (homo?) so you know what works for you, but you didn’t change the quality of your diet, did you? Because it sounds like some people on this board and others have taken this whole carb back-loading to an extreme whilst eating shittier. [/quote]
Berardi’s PW meals tend to still have a good amount of fat (10-20%). Kiefer does not in any way recommend limiting fat intake (actually he’s the one advocating all the junk food).
In my quest to limit calories as much as possible before lifting, I spread my fat intake evenly over all my meals. So what ends up happening is I only eat about 1/3 of my calories before working out. Protein intake goes up a bit PW, but the only real difference between my pre- and post-workout meals is a big helping of carbs.
I’m not going off the deep end though. Brown rice, Ezekiel bread, red and sweet potatoes, oats are my mainstays. The worst I’ll do is one of those Boboli pizzas on a high carb day.
this carb back loading is pretty good, have used it for some time now, major muscle gain and no fat
[quote]dieselallnight wrote:
this carb back loading is pretty good, have used it for some time now, major muscle gain and no fat [/quote]
Do you have before and after numbers/pictures? How long has it been?