Ok, I have been doing the Frequent and Furious workout for the last seven weeks and today I switched over to Westside.
I was giddy as a schoolgirl walking into the gym but my optimism soon faded after I set up for my first box squat.
I placed the bench behind me (I am 6’5" and the bench put me about an inch and a half below parallel as I could figure).
I assumed the position under an empty bar and tried to sit back, with my abs tight, chest out, elbows tight and back arched, moving with my hips first and spreading the floor with my knees.
Two things that seemed oh-not-so-good happened. First, I was able to make it about 3/4 of the way before I sorta “fell” onto the bench. This was embarassing. After falling onto the bench, I relaxed for a moment and tried to initiate the movement. I pushed my knees out and pushed back with my upper body. I was able to move up but my toes LIFTED off the ground. I was really unstable and ended up doing a pitiful box squat.
I repeated this for about 4 sets of 6 with an empty bar before driving home to get hang my head in shame and seek help on the forum. Am I doomed to Westside failure? Should I hang up any hopes of powerlifting and instead join an aerobics class? My moral is gone and I need help.
Patrick,
You have not failed my man you have just learned how weak you are in your glutes,hip flexors and hamstrings.
The Box Squat Checklist.
How wide is your stance?
Push out through the sides of your training shoes when in the stance.
Wear a belt,This teaches you to push your belly out,this is very important for the box squat.
Sit back,really sit back,then when you touch down on the box FLEX and drive yourself up again.
It is hard to give good advice without,being able to see your form.
However the box squat is very different to a normal squat in that,you really are working your posterior chain a lot more and in this case yours do seem to be quite weak.
This is not unusual,I see this in a lot of Pro Athletes that I coach,you need to really work on Hips,Glutes and Hams.
Plenty of Good Mornings,Pull throughs,and Box Squats.
At the moment why go below Parallel?
Raise the bench a bit higher,until you can control the whole movement.
And make sure you do it with speed,fast as you go down and drive on the way up.
Dont let it get you down,I spent two months at Westside being taught by Louie.And during that time I saw a lot,and I mean a lot of strong men humbled the first time they tried to box squat.
Thanks for the tips, Coach. I had my feet out real wide with my toes pointed forward to keep my lower body tight.
I forgot about the belt and will definitely add that to my arsenal.
I am staying very straight when I sit back and I wonder if this is part of the problem because I do sort of fall near the end. But then again, I do not want to push with my legs to start the movement. I want to make sure to drive with my upper body.
Patrick,
I found the box squat a bit awkward at first. Just start with the bar until you get comfortable. Your strength will climb rather quickly once you develop your form and comfort level. I know alot of people that don’t even bother to squat let alone try something like a box squat. Keep at it brother you will squatting big weight soon!
Patrick,
I started off very weak with the box squat also. What helped me get to the point where I could do the bar is that I sat on a stool (lower than a box or bench) and placed DBs in each hand. I just did 10 reps then increased until I could perform 40 -50 lbs DBs in each hand with ease. This only took a couple of weeks. I climbed rather quickly. My Post-chain, hams, and glutes where dying to get stronger. This would probably prime you for performing the box squat.
If your moral is low, I suggest enrolling in seminary. They’re the best thing I know for morals.
As for box squats, keep at 'em. It takes a couple of weeks to get comfortable with the movement and learn how to really sit back into it. Defintely don’t quit until you’ve given it a good two months or so to see how it’s working for you.
Pardon my spelling mistake, char. I meant “morale.”
I don’t plan on giving up with the box squat or Westside. My only question then would be should I just work the box squat on dynamic days with just the bar until my form improves? Or should I do regular squats on DE days and do box squats as a supplementary exercise like 3X10 @ Bar? Or should I do box squats on ME days? Working with the bar and then trying to add weight?
Goodmorning, goodmornings, goodmornings
best thing for a beginner.
i know, i am one, So I have recently had the same problems. Strengthen up your hammies, do goodmornings on your ME day and practice, practice, practice.
Keep doing the DE Box squats. Regular squats won’t teach you how to sit back in the same way. Also, work on bringing up your good morning. You can do box squats as a ME exercise, but at this stage it probably isn’t a great idea. You can also start on a higher than parallel box and gradually take 1/2" or 5/8" boards off until you get below parallel. Only take boards off if your form stays good though.
As a good morning beginner, what kind of weight should you start with? The bar? Something that feels light but doesn’t make you feel like a pussy (which the bar will)? And then how should you go about upping the weight?
Goldberg, if I am doing box squats on DE day then I will go high sets, low reps. I am wondering if I should just work on getting the box squat movement down at the end of my ME squat/dlift day with a couple high rep sets.
I think there’s only one thing that hasn’t been addressed yet and that was your problem with too short of a bench. I’m 6’1 and a bench works nicely for me, but you may want to go Goldberg style and use Aerobic steps to get it right. You can see the picture of him using them in the Squat425 thread.
I’d say start with the bar and then move up from there. It depends on how strong your low back, glutes, and hamstrings already are. I was able to add weight quickly when I started because my posterior chain was already relatively strong.
One thin that I would emphasize with these is that like most of the westside movements for the lower body, you really want to sit back. So you’re not really bending over at the waist, instead as your hips move back your trunk just sort of naturally comes forward. There was a good picture of Goldberg doing these on the photo forum a while ago and I think he might have reposted it on squat1000’s thread.
Based on my low back, glute, and hamstring strength, I may just stick with a little pink dumbell.
I actually just tried the bar, it felt good, so then I think I tried 95, and it felt good too. I’ve just been doing 135 since then in the 6-10 rep range for several sets. It seems that my form starts to deteriorate somewhere after 5 reps, so I stop whenever that happens.
One thing I’ll add to that hasn’t been mentioned is the box doesn’t have to parallel to the rack. If you look at some of the pics on the Elite website, the box is actually facing the rack by one of its four points, like a diamond…if that makes sense.
In fact because my stance is so wide, this seems the only way you could really do it. I make sure my calves stay to the sides of the box while I sit back.
It makes me laugh when people ask how much weight they should start with. How am is somebody else supposed to know? In every exercise i start with the bar anyway. just keep adding weight until you cant move it anymore.
I was thinking about doing some empty bar box squats on my ME squat and ME bench days AFTER the rest of the workout, just to get the technique down. Does anyone see any problems with this?
P.S. Goldberg, I am beginning humbly with just the bar…I am taking it slow cuz I don’t want to end up on my ass in the squat rack looking like Charlie Brown after he tried to kick Lucy’s football. Damn that bitch.