Bulking: How Often Should You Gain?

Training
41

[quote]gregron wrote:
I don’t have a problem with people who want a “full house” look. Everyone has different goals… But I think most would be extremely surprised at how much actual muscle mass they had if they did diet down to contest condition (since you brought up dieting down)[/quote]

Why would you care?

It is great if the idea that the big guy in the gym will lose all his muscle helps you sleep at night. I am not sure why you or anyone else would be that negative towards the personal goals of someone else…and just a head’s up, but many dudes in the gym working on getting huge don’t give a shit about “contest condition” even if the goal is to look good.

[quote]

Using a hypothetical example of a 5’10 natty who bulks up to 300lbs to get huge. Obviously there would be a considerable amount of fat gained along with muscle to get that heavy at that height. Once dieted down to contest level the natty could only hope to be 210-220lbs (EXTREME MAX) that means he shed 80-90lbs of fat. (not talking about the dehydration aspect here)[/quote]

You seem to be missing the entire subject of genetics. Who the fuck cares if he reached his goal? Further, how do you know what someone else will diet down to before they do it?

You seem to care WAY more than you should about what other people are doing who by all signs are reaching their goals.

If the dude is a giant and has his strength up, it seems some of you would actually spend time hating on him because all abs aren’t visible at 17%.

You only see shit like that on the internet.

[quote]
Even if te example person started at 150lbs he would have gained 60-70 lbs of muscle (which would be incredible) while gaining 70-80 lbs of fat. That would still be a less muscle than fat gain on what most would consider a very successful bulk.[/quote]

And if he has a fast metabolism, your point is what?

42

[quote]gregron wrote:

You literally did not adress a single thing I said.[/quote]

I actually did by addressing your “gained more fat than muscle” directly by pointing out genetics and the length of time spent gaining.

Maybe you should read it again.

43

You’re going off on your own thing here and trying to argue points that I did not make.

I’m down for a legitimate discussion but this not really that. I don’t want to argue with you over semantics.

I made my point as an objective observation with no intentions of putting anyone, or their goals, down.

44

Biting my tongue so hard right now lol.

I agree with you greg.

45

[quote]gregron wrote:
You’re going off on your own thing here and trying to argue points that I did not make.

I’m down for a legitimate discussion but this not really that. I don’t want to argue with you over semantics.

I made my point as an objective observation with no intentions of putting anyone, or their goals, down.[/quote]

This response is confusing considering I did answer your points directly.

If your belief and outward statements hold that the impressively huge guy in the gym will lose all his muscle dieting down based on nothing but you looking at them, you are showing bias and might be seen as putting that person down.

How is it you don’t see that?

46

Is this guy a bodybuilder?

-Zep

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
You’re going off on your own thing here and trying to argue points that I did not make.

I’m down for a legitimate discussion but this not really that. I don’t want to argue with you over semantics.

I made my point as an objective observation with no intentions of putting anyone, or their goals, down.[/quote]

This response is confusing considering I did answer your points directly.

If your belief and outward statements hold that the impressively huge guy in the gym will lose all his muscle dieting down based on nothing but you looking at them, you are showing bias and might be seen as putting that person down.

How is it you don’t see that?[/quote]

I didn’t say that this hypotjetical “impressively huge guy” would “lose all his muscle.” what I said is that he would be surprised at how much actual muscle he had if he dieted down to contest level. That is not a slight on the hypothetical impressively huge guy, it is just a fact.

The top natty BBers in the world aren’t coming on stage at 220+ at average height. Saying that this hypothetical person could diet down and still be 220 would be a compliment. He would be right up there with the best in the world.

48

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
You’re going off on your own thing here and trying to argue points that I did not make.

I’m down for a legitimate discussion but this not really that. I don’t want to argue with you over semantics.

I made my point as an objective observation with no intentions of putting anyone, or their goals, down.[/quote]

This response is confusing considering I did answer your points directly.

If your belief and outward statements hold that the impressively huge guy in the gym will lose all his muscle dieting down based on nothing but you looking at them, you are showing bias and might be seen as putting that person down.

How is it you don’t see that?[/quote]

I didn’t say that this hypotjetical “impressively huge guy” would “lose all his muscle.” what I said is that he would be surprised at how much actual muscle he had if he dieted down to contest level. That is not a slight on the hypothetical impressively huge guy, it is just a fact.

The top natty BBers in the world aren’t coming on stage at 220+ at average height. Saying that this hypothetical person could diet down and still be 220 would be a compliment. He would be right up there with the best in the world.[/quote]

You are attempting to make some absolute statement about what all humans can achieve based only on people competing in natural comps…which would only hold as significant if it was proven that the people with the best genetics in the world compete in natural bodybuilding at all.

Once again, you are making an assumption that this guy will be surprised at his level of muscle mass. Why would that be the only way that scenario pans out? You really can’t see how negative that is to place a limit on someone else based not on that person’s actual genetic talent, but on what someone else can do?

The bottom line is, it makes little sense why this would be of some concern to you or why you would assume such a negative outcome. if that lifter is happy with his results…where is the issue?

49

So by me sayiing that this guy could come in weighing more than the best natural Bodybuilfers in the world I am putting him down?

Come on.

If you would like to believe that this hypothetical impressively huge gym goer can far exceed the best natural BBers in the world then go right ahead.

50

[quote]gregron wrote:
So by me sayiing that this guy could come in weighing more than the best natural Bodybuilfers in the world I am putting him down?

Come on.

If you would like to believe that this hypothetical impressively huge gym goer can far exceed the best natural BBers in the world then go right ahead.[/quote]

? It isn’t about what I believe. It is about why you feel the need to take what you believe based on no valid scientific data other than “the people who have competed so far in natural bodybuilding” and make it a RULE.

Your statement was casting doubt that this hypothetical person could do it at all based on what other people have done.

Yes, that would be negative and completely unnecessary unless you were literally a part of his contest prep.

51

I already said I don’t care I’d someone wants to be shredded to the bone or have the “full house” look. You brought up contest lean and so I made my statements

52

[quote]gregron wrote:

I already said I don’t care I’d someone wants to be shredded to the bone or have the “full house” look. You brought up contest lean and so I made my statements[/quote]

…and your statements have been directly addressed.

Have a great one!

53

So let me get this straight, the new word for fat bastard is “Fullhouse”?

54

Decent discussion here:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_alpha/bodyweight_and_size?id=2255267&pageNo=0

55

CT wrote this on page 5

[quote]You do not need to be fat to gain muscle; however you need an excess nutrients intake. Some peoples who are sensitive to gaining fat will be more likely to gain fat when eating to build muscle while others can stay quite lean (or not gain much fat) when doing the same thing.

Some others tend to overdo the ‘‘excess nutrients intake’’ thing and end up gaining more fat than necessary.

Finally you have some peoples who are so un-gifted to gain muscle that they will NEED to consume so much nutrients/food to force their body to build muscle that fat gain is inevitable.

So there is no universal answer.

Even in the bodybuilding world we can see examples of all types…

Guys like Shawn Ray, George Farah, Stan McQuay, Lee Labrada, Rich Gaspari, Dexter Jackson, Dennis Wolf, and even Jay Cutler do tend to stay within striking distance (10-20lbs) of their contest shape.

Some others tend to bulk up a lot during their off-season and succesfully diet down to contest shape while keeping a lot of the added muscle during their bulk… good examples of this are Kai Greene, Phil Heath, Lee Priest, Dorian Yates, Johnny Jackson, Brench Warren.

Others go the bulking route but end up with little gains, (or even look worse) when they diet down. A perfect example of this is Trey Brewer… he won the Excalibur show at 260lbs last year… he bulked up to 340 this year and yesterday he weighted in at 249 at the Junior Nationals and he wasn’t in much better condition than last year.

So in his case the 80lbs of added ‘‘bulk’’ actually did not lead to any muscle gain (probably had to diet so hard that he lost a lot of muscle).

Finally you have/had guys who would actually gain size while getting ready for a show. Kevin Levrone, Lee Haney, Arnold, Franco Columbo and Serge Nubret are good examples of this. However I do suspect that this is only possible with the most genetically gifted athletes.[/quote]

The bottom line is, do what makes YOU swole or reach whatever goal you have.

Some random guy’s opinion on the internet about what most can’t do probably shouldn’t be your final stop.

56

He never said the person would lose “all his muscle dieting down.”

This is why more and more people don’t like you. You constantly bitch and moan about other peoples’ allegedly poor reading comprehension skills, yet you continue to construct straw man arguments. Then you have the balls to tell people to “read it again,” as if reading your ridiculous posts two or three times will change anything.

You are frustratingly dense and egotistical.

57

What the fuck is Prof.X talking about? Points he is trying to make Greg never brought up.

58

+1.

Greg is making good points and being civil and polite, no need to respond like this.

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The bottom line is, do what makes YOU swole or reach whatever goal you have.
[/quote]

I whole heartedly agree. The only thing that it seems like we disagree on is how much actual muscle mass this hypothetical “full house”/“incredibly swole” guy is actually carrying.

You have a great one too.

60

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
+1.

Greg is make good points and being civil and polite, no need to respond like this.[/quote]
X is being civil too, just having a strongly worded discussion - Greg understands this because he’s an adult. Stop being a troll.