[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
That is the problem with the term “bulking”
People define it differently.
Some think of bulking in the “classic” application of stuffing your face with epic food portions and ballooning up in weight like the old pros used to do.
[/quote]
IMO…the terms deficit and surplus work much better.
FTR…I understand that the ‘classic’ bulk is currently defined as the ‘stuffing your face with epic portions(see-food)’ approach. I started training in 1983…a period still dominated by the classic approach to both training and nutrition. The majority of lifters did not approach their bulk ‘carelessly’. The conditioning standard was certainly different and that allowed a larger margin for error, but lifters that had their shit together counted macros and placed solid limits on weight gain between deficit periods. The percentage of perma-bulkers was about the same as today; and for the same reasons.
What happened to just getting big? Isn’t not putting weight on because you might lose your abs what all the 150lb “bodybuilders” do and consequently never get anywhere with their physique.
[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
What happened to just getting big? Isn’t not putting weight on because you might lose your abs what all the 150lb “bodybuilders” do and consequently never get anywhere with their physique. [/quote]
I would take a look at the name of the forum. Bigger stronger LEANER. If just taking up space is your goal. Or competeing in pl at the super heavies then yes just put on weight. But if you want a good physique ie lean and big, or you want to compete In a weight class than no its not just about weight. It’s about quality weight.
[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
What happened to just getting big? Isn’t not putting weight on because you might lose your abs what all the 150lb “bodybuilders” do and consequently never get anywhere with their physique. [/quote]
I would take a look at the name of the forum. Bigger stronger LEANER. If just taking up space is your goal. Or competeing in pl at the super heavies then yes just put on weight. But if you want a good physique ie lean and big, or you want to compete In a weight class than no its not just about weight. It’s about quality weight. [/quote]
Well it’s working alright for me, you cant put weight on without gaining fat its impossible.
[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
What happened to just getting big? Isn’t not putting weight on because you might lose your abs what all the 150lb “bodybuilders” do and consequently never get anywhere with their physique. [/quote]
I would take a look at the name of the forum. Bigger stronger LEANER. If just taking up space is your goal. Or competeing in pl at the super heavies then yes just put on weight. But if you want a good physique ie lean and big, or you want to compete In a weight class than no its not just about weight. It’s about quality weight. [/quote]
Well it’s working alright for me, you cant put weight on without gaining fat its impossible.[/quote]
Why is it that so many here seem confused?
No one has EVER said that you put on pure muscle with zero fat gains?
No one.
The goal is MINIMAL fat gains.
Minimal =/= none
[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
Well it’s working alright for me, you cant put weight on without gaining fat its impossible.[/quote]
Well, whether it’s impossible or not, some people’s acid test of whether they’re eating enough to make muscular gains is the complete loss of all visible abs. What you can’t argue is that it is possible to pack on lean muscle while still maintaining a fairly lean (in terms of general population of course) physique.
[please don’t let this thread turn into the usual BS “but you can’t put on extreme levels of muscle by not bulking” nonsense]
As BlueColler pointed out, even in the older days of bodybuilding, the majority of “bulkers” had a fairly good idea of what they were doing. It’s simply the misperception by others of what they were doing, and in attempts to emulate have probably done more to propagate the notion of getting sloppy as a pre-req for adding size than the guys they were trying to imitate.
[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
What happened to just getting big? Isn’t not putting weight on because you might lose your abs what all the 150lb “bodybuilders” do and consequently never get anywhere with their physique. [/quote]
I would take a look at the name of the forum. Bigger stronger LEANER. If just taking up space is your goal. Or competeing in pl at the super heavies then yes just put on weight. But if you want a good physique ie lean and big, or you want to compete In a weight class than no its not just about weight. It’s about quality weight. [/quote]
Well it’s working alright for me, you cant put weight on without gaining fat its impossible.[/quote]
[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
Well it’s working alright for me, you cant put weight on without gaining fat its impossible.[/quote]
Well, whether it’s impossible or not, some people’s acid test of whether they’re eating enough to make muscular gains is the complete loss of all visible abs. What you can’t argue is that it is possible to pack on lean muscle while still maintaining a fairly lean (in terms of general population of course) physique.
[please don’t let this thread turn into the usual BS “but you can’t put on extreme levels of muscle by not bulking” nonsense]
As BlueColler pointed out, even in the older days of bodybuilding, the majority of “bulkers” had a fairly good idea of what they were doing. It’s simply the misperception by others of what they were doing, and in attempts to emulate have probably done more to propagate the notion of getting sloppy as a pre-req for adding size than the guys they were trying to imitate.
S[/quote]
Lol if I compared my leanness to the general population I would be contest ready soon
While gaining, you WILL add fat. How much one is comfortable with is a completely individual thing. Gains with a full, ripped six pack may not come as quick because sporting that usually means you are not eating a ton of calories.
On the maintenance calories, I think it is important that you consistently eat the same food/macros. This allows you to easily adjust. Feeling really hungry one week? Your body is telling you it wants more nutrients. Bump up the calories. Two weeks later you have less of an appetite. Bring calories back to what they were before(assuming its above your estimated maintenance). I feel like this is a good way for damage control as well as optimal growth. Listening to your body will give you better results than what you are supposed to eat on paper(Don’t eat the paper though).
[/quote]
Good post!
The thing about those in the “you cannot possible know how many calories you need” crew is that they do not do what you wrote about in your last paragraph.
Tracking macros EVERY day and hitting the numbers EVERY day.
It is not hard to do if you approach the kitchen with as much dedication as you approach the weight room.
Apparently some of the perma bulkers have the INSTINCTIVE Training approach to the kitchen lol[/quote]
I’ve always thought “bulking” referred to doing exactly this (both posts), unless one is severely limited in financial resources or time.
[/quote]
That is the problem with the term “bulking”
People define it differently.
Some think of bulking in the “classic” application of stuffing your face with epic food portions and ballooning up in weight like the old pros used to do.
Some, the “new school” approach, think of “bulking” as intelligently approaching nutrition in order to gain muscle along with MINIMAL fat gain.
As a natural we all know you cannot force feed muscular gains.
There is a point of diminishing returns.[/quote]
I believe the terms are dirty bulk and clean bulk.
[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
What happened to just getting big? Isn’t not putting weight on because you might lose your abs what all the 150lb “bodybuilders” do and consequently never get anywhere with their physique. [/quote]
OMFG its like people are purposely mis-reading what is being said.
no one said dont be afraid to loose some ab definition… what people here are arguing against is that one must gain massive amounts of fat to get big. a bit of gained fat is inevitable, but people that get up into the 20-30% BF range as a natural really are deluded about the amount of muscle they are putting on and carrying. you CANNOT force feed muscle growth as a natural!
an average trainer who does everything correct should expect muscular gains that look something like this.
1st year - 20-25 lbs (2lb a month)
2nd year - 10-12 lbs (1lb per month)
3rd year - 5-6 lbs (0.5lb per month)
4th year - 2-3 lbs (not worth calculating)
now this isnt exact, some genetic elite may be able to gain a bit more but this is a very good guide line for the average lifter.
I don’t understand these pics. Are you arguing him being obese helped him get that much mass? And by that much I mean really nothing you couldn’t of done staying leaner. How long did he have to suffer to get there?
I’m not trying to insult anyone here, but it seems like all those saying that the “eat big and get big” approach is the end-all-be-all of bulking approaches are just having a hard time letting go of the “golden years”. Just because they did it “back in the day” and that’s how you like to do it doesn’t mean it’s working. I mean, how can one honestly believe that all out bulking by eating copious amounts of food leads to more muscle gains than just tracking what you eat and counting macros. Like some have said, you can’t make your body add more muscle more quickly by force-feeding it. I, personally, have been counting my macros and keeping track of what I eat for months now. Whenever I get a bit impatient and eat a bit too much, do you know what happens? More fat gain. That’s all. I mean, to be honest, I’ve put on quite a bit of fat since I started training with purpose. I credit that to a number of things: 1-I’ve put on about 60lbs since I started, so there’s going to be fat gain. 2-I’m poor. I can’t afford to eat as clean as I’d like. I mean, I’m broke. 3-I have let myself go a bit trying to push up the weight on my main lifts. However, that’s just my goal for right now and I know, deep down, it doesn’t really mean I’ve gained “more muscle” just because I’ve been eating a bit more. Closing not: Don’t be a pussy and start eating what you need to put on muscle, but don’t think that going far past that means far more muscle. Don’t kid yourself.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
I know one thing… there’s some fellers posting in this thread who flat out need to start eating more. A whole lot more. Good grief.[/quote]
LOL And there’s some that should probably stop eating so much.
That added nothing to this thread. You could add your opinion to this topic, because so far it’s been civil, and you seem like a pretty intelligent guy, without attempting to make comments on other’s progress. Just an idea.
lol[/quote]
