Bulking How Its Done

[ryan_b_96]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m not sure if this was addressed earlier or not but what is the purpose of “the bulk” in this thread?

Because obviously goals mean a whole bunch when it comes to answering the question of “How do you guys go about a bulk?”

Distinctions must be made.

Distinctions are always important.

I’ve a feeling there will be less overall disagreement when the varying possible goals are distinguished.
[/quote]
For me personally its about getting bigger and leaner but if your goals are only stronger and bigger go ahead on how you approach that.[/quote]

Well, this path is well trod here on TN but one thing is an absolute certainty in my opinion – more weight, GENERALLY SPEAKING, will produce more strength whether the weight includes copious amounts of fat or not.

The “I gotta always see my abz” boys may throw the Dave Tate’s of the world under the bus because of his, at times, large amounts of adipose tissue but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is not as strong as Dave Tate.

Fat WILL make you stronger, both from the joint cushion it provides and the better levers and I will straight up tell you that all the extra food will fuel your strength training better. NO, you will not have a better Spartan Race finish but you will deadlift, squat and press more weight. I will argue this with anybody anywhere.

So if goal is BIGGER and LEANER one must obviously be careful with the fat cells.

If goal is BIGGER and STRONGER one can turn on the spigot a little higher.

If goal is SIGNIFICANTLY and BEASTLY BIGGER and STRONGER then turn the damn thing wide open.
[/quote]

just a question. why can one not become a “beast” and crazy strong without getting as big and fat as dave did?

there are alot of great powerlifters who have never been fat or gotten to the size of dave tate.

[BrickHead]

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m not sure if this was addressed earlier or not but what is the purpose of “the bulk” in this thread?

Because obviously goals mean a whole bunch when it comes to answering the question of “How do you guys go about a bulk?”

Distinctions must be made.

Distinctions are always important.

I’ve a feeling there will be less overall disagreement when the varying possible goals are distinguished.
[/quote]
For me personally its about getting bigger and leaner but if your goals are only stronger and bigger go ahead on how you approach that.[/quote]

Well, this path is well trod here on TN but one thing is an absolute certainty in my opinion – more weight, GENERALLY SPEAKING, will produce more strength whether the weight includes copious amounts of fat or not.

The “I gotta always see my abz” boys may throw the Dave Tate’s of the world under the bus because of his, at times, large amounts of adipose tissue but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is not as strong as Dave Tate.

Fat WILL make you stronger, both from the joint cushion it provides and the better levers and I will straight up tell you that all the extra food will fuel your strength training better. NO, you will not have a better Spartan Race finish but you will deadlift, squat and press more weight. I will argue this with anybody anywhere.

So if goal is BIGGER and LEANER one must obviously be careful with the fat cells.

If goal is BIGGER and STRONGER one can turn on the spigot a little higher.

If goal is SIGNIFICANTLY and BEASTLY BIGGER and STRONGER then turn the damn thing wide open.
[/quote]

just a question. why can one not become a “beast” and crazy strong without getting as big and fat as dave did?

there are alot of great powerlifters who have never been fat or gotten to the size of dave tate.
[/quote]

True, but they likely didn’t achieve the ABSOLUTE strength of the superheavies like Andrew Bolton, Donnie Thompson, and Brad Gillngham. I know what exactly what you’re saying, and I also know what Push is saying. One has to decide what he wants though when it comes to strength: keep “in shape” and lift as much as one can do like that, or gain WEIGHT (fat included, that is) and see how far they can go with the absolute strength.

Many powerlifters in the 275 class and below were or are very muscular.

What I think some people neglect is the fact that in some cases, an increase in fat can cause an increase in strength, even if there is no or a negligible increase in muscle mass. Some superheavyweight powerlifters dieted down and don’t look anything better than their counterparts of the same height. In fact, in some cases I BELIEVE or THINK they look less impressive than their counterparts, POSSIBLY because the amount of punishment they need to go through to shed 50+ pounds of fat.

[Mtag666]

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m not sure if this was addressed earlier or not but what is the purpose of “the bulk” in this thread?

Because obviously goals mean a whole bunch when it comes to answering the question of “How do you guys go about a bulk?”

Distinctions must be made.

Distinctions are always important.

I’ve a feeling there will be less overall disagreement when the varying possible goals are distinguished.
[/quote]
For me personally its about getting bigger and leaner but if your goals are only stronger and bigger go ahead on how you approach that.[/quote]

Well, this path is well trod here on TN but one thing is an absolute certainty in my opinion – more weight, GENERALLY SPEAKING, will produce more strength whether the weight includes copious amounts of fat or not.

The “I gotta always see my abz” boys may throw the Dave Tate’s of the world under the bus because of his, at times, large amounts of adipose tissue but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is not as strong as Dave Tate.

Fat WILL make you stronger, both from the joint cushion it provides and the better levers and I will straight up tell you that all the extra food will fuel your strength training better. NO, you will not have a better Spartan Race finish but you will deadlift, squat and press more weight. I will argue this with anybody anywhere.

So if goal is BIGGER and LEANER one must obviously be careful with the fat cells.

If goal is BIGGER and STRONGER one can turn on the spigot a little higher.

If goal is SIGNIFICANTLY and BEASTLY BIGGER and STRONGER then turn the damn thing wide open.
[/quote]

just a question. why can one not become a “beast” and crazy strong without getting as big and fat as dave did?

there are alot of great powerlifters who have never been fat or gotten to the size of dave tate.
[/quote]

True, but they likely didn’t achieve the ABSOLUTE strength of the superheavies like Andrew Bolton, Donnie Thompson, and Brad Gillngham. I know what exactly what you’re saying, and I also know what Push is saying. One has to decide what he wants though when it comes to strength: keep “in shape” and lift as much as one can do like that, or gain WEIGHT (fat included, that is) and see how far they can go with the absolute strength.

Many powerlifters in the 275 class and below were or are very muscular.

What I think some people neglect is the fact that in some cases, an increase in fat can cause an increase in strength, even if there is no or a negligible increase in muscle mass. Some superheavyweight powerlifters dieted down and don’t look anything better than their counterparts of the same height. In fact, in some cases I BELIEVE or THINK they look less impressive than their counterparts, POSSIBLY because the amount of punishment they need to go through to shed 50+ pounds of fat. [/quote]

We also have to remember alot of the pictures posted of powerlifters that are fat as shit are multiply lifters. And extra fat makes squat suits tighter which makes you “stronger” (by multiply definitions lol). In raw lifting being lean(er) is definitely the trend all around lately.

[ryanbCXG]

There are some pretty insanely strong plers lifting below the super heavies. And many look damn good. Putting up 3x bw or more lifts is damn impressive far better than 2.5x bw when you are 300. Even with that said there are super heavies that look pretty good and certainly not as sloppy as some get

[MassiveGuns]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m not sure if this was addressed earlier or not but what is the purpose of “the bulk” in this thread?

Because obviously goals mean a whole bunch when it comes to answering the question of “How do you guys go about a bulk?”

Distinctions must be made.

Distinctions are always important.

I’ve a feeling there will be less overall disagreement when the varying possible goals are distinguished.
[/quote]
For me personally its about getting bigger and leaner but if your goals are only stronger and bigger go ahead on how you approach that.[/quote]

Well, this path is well trod here on TN but one thing is an absolute certainty in my opinion – more weight, GENERALLY SPEAKING, will produce more strength whether the weight includes copious amounts of fat or not.

The “I gotta always see my abz” boys may throw the Dave Tate’s of the world under the bus because of his, at times, large amounts of adipose tissue but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is not as strong as Dave Tate.

Fat WILL make you stronger, both from the joint cushion it provides and the better levers and I will straight up tell you that all the extra food will fuel your strength training better. NO, you will not have a better Spartan Race finish but you will deadlift, squat and press more weight. I will argue this with anybody anywhere.

So if goal is BIGGER and LEANER one must obviously be careful with the fat cells.

If goal is BIGGER and STRONGER one can turn on the spigot a little higher.

If goal is SIGNIFICANTLY and BEASTLY BIGGER and STRONGER then turn the damn thing wide open.
[/quote]

Spot on the mark.

I really think that it is important to draw the distinction between the “perma bulking” that is often thrown around here as a reason not to significantly over eat.

As a natural, unless you are a freak, then you absolutely cannot gain muscle without putting on SOME fat. You just cannot get around this, it’s absolutely necessary.

There aren’t many people here (i think?) that would argue against that carrying more bodyfat and eating more means you make more progress weights wise.

More energy in the gym + more strength = more work done in less time = more muscle gain.

If someone wants to challenge the idea that being able to lift more weight for more reps does not equal more muscle, then go ahead. I know what you’re going to say “you can get stronger without getting bigger”. Of course you can, but this doesn’t mean it’s easy to do that.

Carrying more bodyfat does not reduce the work done lifting a weight from A to B. Fact.

Find me one person who added 30% to their 10RM on squats whose muscle mass stayed the same and ill find you 10 people who did that and gained lbm. Staying in a weight class and getting SIGNIFICANTLY stronger is way harder than getting stronger and bigger, and that ain’t no chicken dinner either.

Bearing this in mind, you need to eat more to get stronger and bulk, but you also don’t want to go so far you really screw your health.

The gut reaction to getting fat is to think “well that wasn’t great”, and then jump to the other end of the spectrum. Just add a few hundred calories to your exact calculated maintence calories and keep accurately readjusting et voila, add 50lbs musclemass over a couple of years and never break 10% bodyfat… Yeah right…

You simply cannot track your bodies calorie requirements accurately enough to do this. What if you walk more this week than last? Moving house in two weeks? Got some other physical activity thrown in there? Feeling hornier than usual and decide to bang the missus for four hours? You cannot accurately enough track your ACTUAL maintenance calories so that you can always be 300cal over or whatever it is.

The only way to know that you’ve got maintenance covered and had a bit of surplus is if your scale weight goes up, and you are eating enough to make this happen. Does this mean that scale weight is all that matters? fuck no, measure your bf too and track it. It will go up, and it should, but your lbm will also go up if you’re training and sleeping right.

IMO It doesn’t make any sense to write off the positive effects of a SIGNIFICANT bump in calories just because you or someone you know got on the bulking train to gainsville and forgot to get off. You need to do it, and you need to know when to stop and back off so you can do it again.

[BrickHead]

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

Carrying more bodyfat does not reduce the work done lifting a weight from A to B. Fact.
[/quote]

Not a fact for all exercises. If you become fatter, you reduce the bench press stroke. So less work is being done. Same can be said for the squat.

[Ripsaw3689]

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m not sure if this was addressed earlier or not but what is the purpose of “the bulk” in this thread?

Because obviously goals mean a whole bunch when it comes to answering the question of “How do you guys go about a bulk?”

Distinctions must be made.

Distinctions are always important.

I’ve a feeling there will be less overall disagreement when the varying possible goals are distinguished.
[/quote]
For me personally its about getting bigger and leaner but if your goals are only stronger and bigger go ahead on how you approach that.[/quote]

Well, this path is well trod here on TN but one thing is an absolute certainty in my opinion – more weight, GENERALLY SPEAKING, will produce more strength whether the weight includes copious amounts of fat or not.

The “I gotta always see my abz” boys may throw the Dave Tate’s of the world under the bus because of his, at times, large amounts of adipose tissue but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is not as strong as Dave Tate.

Fat WILL make you stronger, both from the joint cushion it provides and the better levers and I will straight up tell you that all the extra food will fuel your strength training better. NO, you will not have a better Spartan Race finish but you will deadlift, squat and press more weight. I will argue this with anybody anywhere.

So if goal is BIGGER and LEANER one must obviously be careful with the fat cells.

If goal is BIGGER and STRONGER one can turn on the spigot a little higher.

If goal is SIGNIFICANTLY and BEASTLY BIGGER and STRONGER then turn the damn thing wide open.
[/quote]

Spot on the mark.

I really think that it is important to draw the distinction between the “perma bulking” that is often thrown around here as a reason not to significantly over eat.

As a natural, unless you are a freak, then you absolutely cannot gain muscle without putting on SOME fat. You just cannot get around this, it’s absolutely necessary.

There aren’t many people here (i think?) that would argue against that carrying more bodyfat and eating more means you make more progress weights wise.

More energy in the gym + more strength = more work done in less time = more muscle gain.

If someone wants to challenge the idea that being able to lift more weight for more reps does not equal more muscle, then go ahead. I know what you’re going to say “you can get stronger without getting bigger”. Of course you can, but this doesn’t mean it’s easy to do that.

Carrying more bodyfat does not reduce the work done lifting a weight from A to B. Fact.

Find me one person who added 30% to their 10RM on squats whose muscle mass stayed the same and ill find you 10 people who did that and gained lbm. Staying in a weight class and getting SIGNIFICANTLY stronger is way harder than getting stronger and bigger, and that ain’t no chicken dinner either.

Bearing this in mind, you need to eat more to get stronger and bulk, but you also don’t want to go so far you really screw your health.

The gut reaction to getting fat is to think “well that wasn’t great”, and then jump to the other end of the spectrum. Just add a few hundred calories to your exact calculated maintence calories and keep accurately readjusting et voila, add 50lbs musclemass over a couple of years and never break 10% bodyfat… Yeah right…

You simply cannot track your bodies calorie requirements accurately enough to do this. What if you walk more this week than last? Moving house in two weeks? Got some other physical activity thrown in there? Feeling hornier than usual and decide to bang the missus for four hours? You cannot accurately enough track your ACTUAL maintenance calories so that you can always be 300cal over or whatever it is.

The only way to know that you’ve got maintenance covered and had a bit of surplus is if your scale weight goes up, and you are eating enough to make this happen. Does this mean that scale weight is all that matters? fuck no, measure your bf too and track it. It will go up, and it should, but your lbm will also go up if you’re training and sleeping right.

IMO It doesn’t make any sense to write off the positive effects of a SIGNIFICANT bump in calories just because you or someone you know got on the bulking train to gainsville and forgot to get off. You need to do it, and you need to know when to stop and back off so you can do it again.

[/quote]

Good post.

While gaining, you WILL add fat. How much one is comfortable with is a completely individual thing. Gains with a full, ripped six pack may not come as quick because sporting that usually means you are not eating a ton of calories.

On the maintenance calories, I think it is important that you consistently eat the same food/macros. This allows you to easily adjust. Feeling really hungry one week? Your body is telling you it wants more nutrients. Bump up the calories. Two weeks later you have less of an appetite. Bring calories back to what they were before(assuming its above your estimated maintenance). I feel like this is a good way for damage control as well as optimal growth. Listening to your body will give you better results than what you are supposed to eat on paper(Don’t eat the paper though).

[BlueCollarTr8n]

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

Carrying more bodyfat does not reduce the work done lifting a weight from A to B. Fact.
[/quote]

Not a fact for all exercises. If you become fatter, you reduce the bench press stroke. So less work is being done. Same can be said for the squat. [/quote]

I suspect that is not the case with the amount of weight gain he is advocating.

[bpick86]

I have let myself get a little fatter than I have in the past, since I started a strength centered routine and I have to say that my joints have actually felt a lot better than the last time I did this when I was leaner. I dunno if that is just coincidental but works for me. I have always had abs that stay pretty visible abs when flexed at nearly 20% though so I still feel like I look alright.

[Smashingweights]

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
As a natural, unless you are a freak, then you absolutely cannot gain muscle without putting on SOME fat. You just cannot get around this, it’s absolutely necessary.
[/quote]
As far as I have ever seen, NO ONE has said anything contrary to this.
Some fat? Yes
A lot of fat? No

There aren’t many people here (i think?) that would argue against that carrying more bodyfat and eating more means you make more progress weights wise.

As in gaining weight?

Carrying more bodyfat does not reduce the work done lifting a weight from A to B. Fact.

See Bricks response

Bearing this in mind, you need to eat more to get stronger and bulk, but you also don’t want to go so far you really screw your health.

This has basically been the point the whole time.
“Bulk” is such a stupid word

The gut reaction to getting fat is to think “well that wasn’t great”, and then jump to the other end of the spectrum. Just add a few hundred calories to your exact calculated maintence calories and keep accurately readjusting et voila, add 50lbs musclemass over a couple of years and never break 10% bodyfat… Yeah right…

No one ever said this.

You simply cannot track your bodies calorie requirements accurately enough to do this. What if you walk more this week than last? Moving house in two weeks? Got some other physical activity thrown in there? Feeling hornier than usual and decide to bang the missus for four hours? You cannot accurately enough track your ACTUAL maintenance calories so that you can always be 300cal over or whatever it is.

First of all, this isn’t true.
Secondly, if it was true then your response is “well I can’t accurately asses my calories this week cause I had so much sex so lets just eat an extra 2,000 kcals a day. That should do it!”
Come on

The only way to know that you’ve got maintenance covered and had a bit of surplus is if your scale weight goes up, and you are eating enough to make this happen. Does this mean that scale weight is all that matters? fuck no, measure your bf too and track it. It will go up, and it should, but your lbm will also go up if you’re training and sleeping right.

You are arguing against things that no one has said, but you know this.
Who is telling people to gain weight by not being in a caloric surplus?

IMO It doesn’t make any sense to write off the positive effects of a SIGNIFICANT bump in calories just because you or someone you know got on the bulking train to gainsville and forgot to get off. You need to do it, and you need to know when to stop and back off so you can do it again.

Do I need to say it again Mr Guns?
Who is arguing against a caloric bump?
If someone finds their maintenance level to be 2,500 and after 2 weeks they have pushed their kcals up to 3,000

[Smashingweights]

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
Good post.

While gaining, you WILL add fat. How much one is comfortable with is a completely individual thing. Gains with a full, ripped six pack may not come as quick because sporting that usually means you are not eating a ton of calories.

On the maintenance calories, I think it is important that you consistently eat the same food/macros. This allows you to easily adjust. Feeling really hungry one week? Your body is telling you it wants more nutrients. Bump up the calories. Two weeks later you have less of an appetite. Bring calories back to what they were before(assuming its above your estimated maintenance). I feel like this is a good way for damage control as well as optimal growth. Listening to your body will give you better results than what you are supposed to eat on paper(Don’t eat the paper though).
[/quote]
Good post!
The thing about those in the “you cannot possible know how many calories you need” crew is that they do not do what you wrote about in your last paragraph.
Tracking macros EVERY day and hitting the numbers EVERY day.
It is not hard to do if you approach the kitchen with as much dedication as you approach the weight room.
Apparently some of the perma bulkers have the INSTINCTIVE Training approach to the kitchen lol

[ryanbCXG]

Weighing out food and tracking macros adds very little extra time after the first week or two

[Smashingweights]

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Weighing out food and tracking macros adds very little extra time after the first week or two[/quote]
Especially if you do big meal preps.
I cook big on Wednesdays and Sundays.
Spend 1-1:30 or so to cook, measure out and package my meals for the next few days
Shakes excluded obviously.

Then you don’t need to cook or even think about food 5 days out of the week.
Everything is cooked and weighed and you’re good to go.

[bpick86]

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Weighing out food and tracking macros adds very little extra time after the first week or two[/quote]

And you don’t even have to measure after a little while. If you measure for a while and use the same dishes repeatedly you get a pretty good idea of where 1 cup hits in a bowl or how many spoonfulls it is. Portion control is incredibly easy after you get used to it. Also the prep before hand that Smashingweights is talking about helps out drastically. And I have a deep hatred for measuring food so if I can do it anyone can.

[Ripsaw3689]

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Weighing out food and tracking macros adds very little extra time after the first week or two[/quote]

And you don’t even have to measure after a little while. If you measure for a while and use the same dishes repeatedly you get a pretty good idea of where 1 cup hits in a bowl or how many spoonfulls it is. Portion control is incredibly easy after you get used to it. Also the prep before hand that Smashingweights is talking about helps out drastically. And I have a deep hatred for measuring food so if I can do it anyone can.[/quote]

Right. I like to remeasure every few weeks to make sure I am accurate as well. And I agree on the cooking large portions. Saves a TON of time because I don;t really like cooking at 8 PM after the gym when I want to be in bed by 9. Usually once a week I’ll cook up 5 lbs of hamburger and 2 times a week cook a few lbs of chicken since it doesn’t keep as well as the beef. The rest is veggies or rice which takes little time/effort to prepare.

Previously, I would cook my food for the next day and I ended up cooking non stop it seemed. Definitely not good for time management.

[MassiveGuns]

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
As a natural, unless you are a freak, then you absolutely cannot gain muscle without putting on SOME fat. You just cannot get around this, it’s absolutely necessary.
[/quote]
As far as I have ever seen, NO ONE has said anything contrary to this.
Some fat? Yes
A lot of fat? No

There aren’t many people here (i think?) that would argue against that carrying more bodyfat and eating more means you make more progress weights wise.

As in gaining weight?

Carrying more bodyfat does not reduce the work done lifting a weight from A to B. Fact.

See Bricks response

Bearing this in mind, you need to eat more to get stronger and bulk, but you also don’t want to go so far you really screw your health.

This has basically been the point the whole time.
“Bulk” is such a stupid word

The gut reaction to getting fat is to think “well that wasn’t great”, and then jump to the other end of the spectrum. Just add a few hundred calories to your exact calculated maintence calories and keep accurately readjusting et voila, add 50lbs musclemass over a couple of years and never break 10% bodyfat… Yeah right…

No one ever said this.

You simply cannot track your bodies calorie requirements accurately enough to do this. What if you walk more this week than last? Moving house in two weeks? Got some other physical activity thrown in there? Feeling hornier than usual and decide to bang the missus for four hours? You cannot accurately enough track your ACTUAL maintenance calories so that you can always be 300cal over or whatever it is.

First of all, this isn’t true.
Secondly, if it was true then your response is “well I can’t accurately asses my calories this week cause I had so much sex so lets just eat an extra 2,000 kcals a day. That should do it!”
Come on

The only way to know that you’ve got maintenance covered and had a bit of surplus is if your scale weight goes up, and you are eating enough to make this happen. Does this mean that scale weight is all that matters? fuck no, measure your bf too and track it. It will go up, and it should, but your lbm will also go up if you’re training and sleeping right.

You are arguing against things that no one has said, but you know this.
Who is telling people to gain weight by not being in a caloric surplus?

IMO It doesn’t make any sense to write off the positive effects of a SIGNIFICANT bump in calories just because you or someone you know got on the bulking train to gainsville and forgot to get off. You need to do it, and you need to know when to stop and back off so you can do it again.

Do I need to say it again Mr Guns?
Who is arguing against a caloric bump?
If someone finds their maintenance level to be 2,500 and after 2 weeks they have pushed their kcals up to 3,000 [/quote]

As in strength and reps

I’m not advocating growing man tits to shorten a bench stroke, and regardless of fat level a squat to parallel travels the same distance

I like the word bulk

People have said it.

With regard to calories you are talking in retrospect. The body makes muscle gains in the present. You can’t say “well I burned 2783 calories per day last week” and then eat your surplus in retrospect. (hang on, maybe that isn’t such a bad idea?! Maintenance calories during the week, then pig out at the weekend)

No one has directly said it yet, but the whole lean gains mentality is setting people up for less than optimal results. People underestimate how many calories they actually need to grow.

Lets say your an average 200lb muscular, trained guy who decides to do a ten week bulk.

Maintenance BMR est. 2700cal x 7
Three HEAVY weights sessions per week 4500cal total(EPOC+plus work done, quite possibly more)
Cardio 3x per week 900 cal
Shagging 200cal per session 600-1400

total: 25000 per week = aprx 3500 per day, just to keep going.

So really you need at least 4000 calories a day. I’m willing to bet that most people think that’s too much, and that’s my point. Most people don’t need to focus so much on the watching the calories, increasing work capacity and controlling fat gains through the training is more important and productive.

Years ago I think Beradi wrote an article along these lines?

[dt79]

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
Good post.

While gaining, you WILL add fat. How much one is comfortable with is a completely individual thing. Gains with a full, ripped six pack may not come as quick because sporting that usually means you are not eating a ton of calories.

On the maintenance calories, I think it is important that you consistently eat the same food/macros. This allows you to easily adjust. Feeling really hungry one week? Your body is telling you it wants more nutrients. Bump up the calories. Two weeks later you have less of an appetite. Bring calories back to what they were before(assuming its above your estimated maintenance). I feel like this is a good way for damage control as well as optimal growth. Listening to your body will give you better results than what you are supposed to eat on paper(Don’t eat the paper though).
[/quote]
Good post!
The thing about those in the “you cannot possible know how many calories you need” crew is that they do not do what you wrote about in your last paragraph.
Tracking macros EVERY day and hitting the numbers EVERY day.
It is not hard to do if you approach the kitchen with as much dedication as you approach the weight room.
Apparently some of the perma bulkers have the INSTINCTIVE Training approach to the kitchen lol[/quote]

I’ve always thought “bulking” referred to doing exactly this (both posts), unless one is severely limited in financial resources or time.

[Smashingweights]

Mr Gunzzz,
You know that figuring out your maintenance level calories for training individuals doesn’t work like that.
You figure out your maintenance by tracking macros and doing what you normally do (gym, cardio, sexy time, etc)
If your weight doesn’t change, you’re eating maintenance.
If you’re weight is going down, you are eating below.
The calorie expenditure is already accounted for.
Then you bump up calories accordingly.
It’s not difficult.
If you do all your work, consume 2,700 calories a day for a week or two with zero weight change and then bump it up to 4,000 that would most certainly be overkill.
Adding 50% more calories right off the bat?
Too much.

[Smashingweights]

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
Good post.

While gaining, you WILL add fat. How much one is comfortable with is a completely individual thing. Gains with a full, ripped six pack may not come as quick because sporting that usually means you are not eating a ton of calories.

On the maintenance calories, I think it is important that you consistently eat the same food/macros. This allows you to easily adjust. Feeling really hungry one week? Your body is telling you it wants more nutrients. Bump up the calories. Two weeks later you have less of an appetite. Bring calories back to what they were before(assuming its above your estimated maintenance). I feel like this is a good way for damage control as well as optimal growth. Listening to your body will give you better results than what you are supposed to eat on paper(Don’t eat the paper though).
[/quote]
Good post!
The thing about those in the “you cannot possible know how many calories you need” crew is that they do not do what you wrote about in your last paragraph.
Tracking macros EVERY day and hitting the numbers EVERY day.
It is not hard to do if you approach the kitchen with as much dedication as you approach the weight room.
Apparently some of the perma bulkers have the INSTINCTIVE Training approach to the kitchen lol[/quote]

I’ve always thought “bulking” referred to doing exactly this (both posts), unless one is severely limited in financial resources or time.
[/quote]
That is the problem with the term “bulking”
People define it differently.
Some think of bulking in the “classic” application of stuffing your face with epic food portions and ballooning up in weight like the old pros used to do.
Some, the “new school” approach, think of “bulking” as intelligently approaching nutrition in order to gain muscle along with MINIMAL fat gain.
As a natural we all know you cannot force feed muscular gains.
There is a point of diminishing returns.

[dt79]

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
Good post.

While gaining, you WILL add fat. How much one is comfortable with is a completely individual thing. Gains with a full, ripped six pack may not come as quick because sporting that usually means you are not eating a ton of calories.

On the maintenance calories, I think it is important that you consistently eat the same food/macros. This allows you to easily adjust. Feeling really hungry one week? Your body is telling you it wants more nutrients. Bump up the calories. Two weeks later you have less of an appetite. Bring calories back to what they were before(assuming its above your estimated maintenance). I feel like this is a good way for damage control as well as optimal growth. Listening to your body will give you better results than what you are supposed to eat on paper(Don’t eat the paper though).
[/quote]
Good post!
The thing about those in the “you cannot possible know how many calories you need” crew is that they do not do what you wrote about in your last paragraph.
Tracking macros EVERY day and hitting the numbers EVERY day.
It is not hard to do if you approach the kitchen with as much dedication as you approach the weight room.
Apparently some of the perma bulkers have the INSTINCTIVE Training approach to the kitchen lol[/quote]

I’ve always thought “bulking” referred to doing exactly this (both posts), unless one is severely limited in financial resources or time.
[/quote]
That is the problem with the term “bulking”
People define it differently.
Some think of bulking in the “classic” application of stuffing your face with epic food portions and ballooning up in weight like the old pros used to do.
Some, the “new school” approach, think of “bulking” as intelligently approaching nutrition in order to gain muscle along with MINIMAL fat gain.
As a natural we all know you cannot force feed muscular gains.
There is a point of diminishing returns.[/quote]

Hmmm… perhaps whichever definition of the word should be coupled with the disclaimer “use with an additional portion of common sense”.

But i gotta clarify 2 things as people respond differently to weight gain and have different lifestyles:

1. If an individual is genetically predisposed to fat gain along with muscle, do people here agree that planning and applying concise macro breakdowns will still lead to a loss of leaness to maximise muscle gains.

2. Would consciously attempting to make all this part of one’s lifestyle while taking extra time to memorise different food labels be more important than actual logging daily macros. For example, once I had finances and didnt’t have to eat crap, I would eat the same thing every for all meals. So, if I needed to increase calories and/or protein according to how my body responded weekly, I would just add in some steak or chicken or even milk in needed portions as I would know exactly how much p/f/c there was in there from memory. Perhaps this can be called “instinctive bulking”?

This is still part of my lifestyle after years of doing things that way, so even if I’m not training and eating crap, I would actually eat the same crap everyday too.