[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
I know one thing… there’s some fellers posting in this thread who flat out need to start eating more. A whole lot more. Good grief.[/quote]
LOL And there’s some that should probably stop eating so much.
That added nothing to this thread. You could add your opinion to this topic, because so far it’s been civil, and you seem like a pretty intelligent guy, without attempting to make comments on other’s progress. Just an idea. [/quote]
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Marc Bartley,after the cut
[/quote]
I don’t understand these pics. Are you arguing him being obese helped him get that much mass? And by that much I mean really nothing you couldn’t of done staying leaner. How long did he have to suffer to get there?[/quote]
This for fuck sake. His physique could have bee achieved just as easily without turning into a fat slob.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
If it works,it works-no matter what anyone said.
[/quote]
we are discussing naturals here so the Dave Tate example isnt relevant.
no one denied that it can work! just that its not the best way to do things as a natural…[/quote]
Right. And HOW did this work for him? It helped in his powerlifting endeavor. That’s it. I
t didn’t help in getting an aesthetic physique, or more athletic, or healthy. And that’s fine, because that’s not what he was after when he was a permabulker.
It also didn’t give him an advantage over others of similar height when he dieted down. Again, if I recall correctly, when he dieted down, he wound up being 230, which would be attainable for someone without bulking up to an obese 300 or so. He also wound up with hyperlipidemia, and if I recall correctly, hypertension.
How he looks right here would’ve been attainable without an outrageous bulk. However, I do know that’s not relevant because he had a different aim in the past.
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Marc Bartley,after the cut
[/quote]
Yeah, this could’ve been done without being obese at one point. But again, that wasn’t his aim during his powerlifting days.
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
If it works,it works-no matter what anyone said.
[/quote]
Guess what else works: offseason shape like this–you know, for one of the best bodybuilders who ever lived.
Dorian Yates, offseason. I guess he would’ve been even bigger onstage had he gained 50+ extra pounds of fat.
What else works: Nasser, offseason.
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
2-I’m poor. I can’t afford to eat as clean as I’d like. I mean, I’m broke. [/quote]
Possible solutions:
Reassess what exactly is “clean” and “dirty”.
Very cheap items: rice, potatoes, bread, oatmeal, canned beans, canned chicken and tuna, eggs, bread, cereals, grits, sardines, liver (I get chicken liver for two bucks a pound!), pasta, peanut butter.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
If it works,it works-no matter what anyone said.
[/quote]
we are discussing naturals here so the Dave Tate example isnt relevant.
no one denied that it can work! just that its not the best way to do things as a natural…[/quote]
Right. And HOW did this work for him? It helped in his powerlifting endeavor. That’s it. I
t didn’t help in getting an aesthetic physique, or more athletic, or healthy. And that’s fine, because that’s not what he was after when he was a permabulker.
It also didn’t give him an advantage over others of similar height when he dieted down. Again, if I recall correctly, when he dieted down, he wound up being 230, which would be attainable for someone without bulking up to an obese 300 or so. He also wound up with hyperlipidemia, and if I recall correctly, hypertension.
How he looks right here would’ve been attainable without an outrageous bulk. However, I do know that’s not relevant because he had a different aim in the past.
[/quote]
yes i agree completely. obviously the extra fat helps for powerlifting now doubt, but for a bodybuilder/physique athlete its just dumb.
@Brick-Hey, thanks for the suggestions. I might give the liver a try.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
If it works,it works-no matter what anyone said.
[/quote]
we are discussing naturals here so the Dave Tate example isnt relevant.
no one denied that it can work! just that its not the best way to do things as a natural…[/quote]
Right. And HOW did this work for him? It helped in his powerlifting endeavor. That’s it. I
t didn’t help in getting an aesthetic physique, or more athletic, or healthy. And that’s fine, because that’s not what he was after when he was a permabulker.
It also didn’t give him an advantage over others of similar height when he dieted down. Again, if I recall correctly, when he dieted down, he wound up being 230, which would be attainable for someone without bulking up to an obese 300 or so. He also wound up with hyperlipidemia, and if I recall correctly, hypertension.
How he looks right here would’ve been attainable without an outrageous bulk. However, I do know that’s not relevant because he had a different aim in the past.
[/quote]
yes i agree completely. obviously the extra fat helps for powerlifting now doubt, but for a bodybuilder/physique athlete its just dumb.
[/quote]
Chiming in as a other agree’er 
Can the old school approach to bulking “work”? (As in once all the fat is cut away you are left with a big muscular physique)
Sure it can.
People are just stating that they think there is a more efficient way.
If you are bodybuilding (attaining a lean symmetric physique) there is no point going obese. You will have troubles getting off the extra bellyfat, and if you went overboard obese, you will have loose skin hanging on top of that…
“For adult lifters, bulking makes them less of an athlete. They find it cumbersome and awkward to move. They have less energy for training, and may experience sleep apnea and higher blood pressure. In most cases, bulking programs are merely excuses for gluttony.” - Shelby
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
“For adult lifters, bulking makes them less of an athlete. They find it cumbersome and awkward to move. They have less energy for training, and may experience sleep apnea and higher blood pressure. In most cases, bulking programs are merely excuses for gluttony.” - Shelby
[/quote]
Changing the focus slightly, I’ll add this. In my experience, changing the physical volume of food you eat makes things much harder when you diet. If you start bulking and eat really clean then your food volume goes way up fast, which subsequently stretches your stomach. If you keep this up for very long periods of time then it gets harder and harder get full when you actually start going into a calorie deficit. That’s why I prefer to add calories in liquid form, such as good oils or cream and milk, and keep my solid food meal sizes about the same. That way come diet time it isn’t anywhere near so much of a shock to the system and it doesn’t immediately feel like you are starving when you cut out the extra calories.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
“For adult lifters, bulking makes them less of an athlete. They find it cumbersome and awkward to move. They have less energy for training, and may experience sleep apnea and higher blood pressure. In most cases, bulking programs are merely excuses for gluttony.” - Shelby
[/quote]
Changing the focus slightly, I’ll add this. In my experience, changing the physical volume of food you eat makes things much harder when you diet. If you start bulking and eat really clean then your food volume goes way up fast, which subsequently stretches your stomach. If you keep this up for very long periods of time then it gets harder and harder get full when you actually start going into a calorie deficit. That’s why I prefer to add calories in liquid form, such as good oils or cream and milk, and keep my solid food meal sizes about the same. That way come diet time it isn’t anywhere near so much of a shock to the system and it doesn’t immediately feel like you are starving when you cut out the extra calories.
[/quote]
Good point about the food volume.
The food choices you mentioned are very dense in calories.
It is pretty easy to get those couple of hundred extra cals if you add an extra scoop of VCO here or cream there.
[quote]NikH wrote:
If you are bodybuilding (attaining a lean symmetric physique) there is no point going obese. You will have troubles getting off the extra bellyfat, and if you went overboard obese, you will have loose skin hanging on top of that…[/quote]
Another thing, I have not seen anyone advocate or specifically tell lifters to get obese.
I think the problem is for a lot of lifters that just happens when they go ok these all out bulks and therefor getting very fat is equated with the classic bulking approach.
Although becoming very fat in the process is not specifically endorsed, the most prominent examples of the “permabulker” crowd on this site did that.
How many “failed bulk, need help” threads have we seen over the years?
The ONLY examples of successful prolonged bulks, where the lifter was quite overweight, and subsequently got very lean and was huge was the MegaNoob(leman) thread and Synergys before and afters. (Although the latter was a former NFL D Lineman and needed the extra weight for that)
Besides those two examples I cannot think of another example although there might be more?
Those two lifters didn’t exactly experience results that I would say are typical, especially for natural trainees.
I know no one has specifically said “bulk up bro, get obese in the process it’s ok”
But since that is what a lot have done, many see bulk=get very fat while adding muscle
End confusing ramblings lol 
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
I’m never going to “bulk” again. The only thing that did was leave me with a ton of work to cut back down. Don’t listen to fat, strong guys if you have any desire for a respectable physique. Listen to the big, lean guys because well, they are big and lean.
Eat a little above maintenance and adjust accordingly. Gaining 1-2 lbs a month by weighing yourself daily and taking the average is how I will continue to gain lean mass. I will cut when I am dieting down for a show. [/quote]
But…what happens if the big lean guys didn’t get big enough?[/quote]
Then you keep going. Trying to force feed growth beyond how fast your body can genetically build it will only lead to fat gain. It’s not a point of contention no matter how much you want it to be.
S[/quote]
I do believe I have already discussed how age relates to the gains someone can see from how they eat and train.
It is strange you ignore this constantly.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If your body is ready to grow 5lbs and you only feed it enough for 2, you will hold yourself back.[/quote]
How have you figured out when your body is primed to gain 2 or 5 pounds of muscle in a specific time frame and how can you tell?
[/quote]
That’s the point, you can’t tell. You have to make sure you are providing what your body needs when IT is ready to grow the most.
[quote]
I assume–though wrongfully so–that your implied strategy is just gross overeating. I’ve asked your strategy before and we’re talking about others’ strategies here. Care to share yours… with some details that is?[/quote]
Gross overeating? If someone is gaining too much fat they cut back on calories or carbs. You are the only one making this complicated.
10 years of the same stuff…
