[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
There is no reason to get to 20%. You are not gaining extra mass (ie muscle) while piling on that much fat. 15-17ish is plenty high for a first big push in weight after that if done right there will be no need to go above 12. It won’t help only hinder
[/quote]
This is a very elementary way of looking at this. No one is writing that there is a specific benefit from being exactly 20%…just like there is no specific benefit to being exactly 10%.
What matters is the muscle gained not some specific body fat percentage.
Question, if the guy who gained to 20% body fat also gained more muscle than his counterparts, didn’t he succeed?
If Bodybuilder A trains for 5 years, hits 20% during that time period but also gained 80lbs, why would he be that worried abou his body fat percentage?
It becomes a personal preference…and the main thing that should matter is gaining enough muscle to justify any fat gain.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
…If an obvious beginner came up to you, the resident gym swole-house, and asked for advice on getting big are you going to explain the most technical and precise dietary approach or are you going to tell them to eat big, then eat less? If someone does not have the necessary skills to maintain a consistent dietary surplus or deficit, how would they be able to do both during a given week based on bodily cues they have no attunement for?
Sometimes the question isn’t what is optimal but what is going to yield results for who is asking.
[/quote]
I can’t help but agree.
I believe the average “obvious” beginner, or even an intermediate, might just get too caught up in all the minutia of counting macros and being exquisitely precise in maintaining sub 15% when what he MAY really need is to open up the spigot (within reason) and flat out get after it for awhile.
Yes, he may overdo it. Yes, he may exceed 15% or even 20%. So what? If he’s got the will to lift, eat and sleep with sincere dedication he likely will have the will to go from 20% back down to 10 - 15%.
One of the positive aspects of the “Get outta my way, I gotta eat” approach is, for an ectomorph and/or one who has leaned ectomorph all his life, he finally sees the scale start to move and strength start to noticeably, sometimes dramatically increase. This psychological boost can be a tremendous motivator vs the slow, methodical, incremental .397 lbs per month alternative.
I’m not sure this has been mentioned before in these ongoing Bulk Battles but I personally attest to it. Do with it what you will.[/quote]
There is no reason to get to 20%. You are not gaining extra mass (ie muscle) while piling on that much fat. 15-17ish is plenty high for a first big push in weight after that if done right there will be no need to go above 12. It won’t help only hinder
[/quote]
If you say so.
I really fucked up with that extra 3%.[/quote]
Thank you.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
There is no reason to get to 20%. You are not gaining extra mass (ie muscle) while piling on that much fat. 15-17ish is plenty high for a first big push in weight after that if done right there will be no need to go above 12. It won’t help only hinder
[/quote]
Exactly why I said FOR SOME, they need to quit micro analyzing the living shit out of every single thing. You want to quibble about 3%.
BTW, tell us how YOU bulked up to the large, impressive male specimen of beast-ness that you are now. Tell me how YOU know what you said to be true in your individual case. You are one offering an awful lot of advice on how to bulk but yet I see no bulk.
According to your profile, you weigh now what I weighed when I started my bulk (and considered myself too small) but I am 5’8" and you are 6’. Tell us how you are qualified to teach how to squat when you haven’t squatted.
Don’t get too excited thinking I’m a big meanie.[/quote]
Oh dear…you will ruffle feathers with this one.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
There is no reason to get to 20%. You are not gaining extra mass (ie muscle) while piling on that much fat. 15-17ish is plenty high for a first big push in weight after that if done right there will be no need to go above 12. It won’t help only hinder
[/quote]
Exactly why I said FOR SOME, they need to quit micro analyzing the living shit out of every single thing. You want to quibble about 3%.
BTW, tell us how YOU bulked up to the large, impressive male specimen of beast-ness that you are now. Tell me how YOU know what you said to be true in your individual case. You are one offering an awful lot of advice on how to bulk but yet I see no bulk.
According to your profile, you weigh now what I weighed when I started my bulk (and considered myself too small) but I am 5’8" and you are 6’. Tell us how you are qualified to teach how to squat when you haven’t squatted.
Don’t get too excited thinking I’m a big meanie.[/quote]
Lol you said over 20%. That would be more than 3%. And I only said 17 Becuase it gets hard to start determining after 15.
My profile is old and have stated where I am at many times since the big mass monsters like you and X like to call me out. Started at 155. Now 220 kept my 6pack the whole time. Would you like more details?
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Lol you said over 20%. That would be more than 3%. And I only said 17 Becuase it gets hard to start determining after 15.
My profile is old and have stated where I am at many times since the big mass monsters like you and X like to call me out. Started at 155. Now 220 kept my 6pack the whole time. Would you like more details?[/quote]
Dude, do you realize how much taller you are? You have made good progress…but some of us do want more size than that.
Also, it does not get hard to dertermine body fat over 15%. Who told you this? Since MOST PEOPLE are over 15% that would completely eliminate fat readings for most of the population.
Also I am offering information from people who actually know what they are doing. Ebomb stu, zraw brick jm austin bicep bugThe people that are big and lean. The approaches I speak of and not getting sloppy are from them as well. They all are big and developed. Sorry I am not big enough to impress. I am happy with my 2 years of serious training progress. Give me a couple more before you go full retard pissy on me
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
There is no reason to get to 20%. You are not gaining extra mass (ie muscle) while piling on that much fat. 15-17ish is plenty high for a first big push in weight after that if done right there will be no need to go above 12. It won’t help only hinder
[/quote]
This is a very elementary way of looking at this. No one is writing that there is a specific benefit from being exactly 20%…just like there is no specific benefit to being exactly 10%.
What matters is the muscle gained not some specific body fat percentage.
Question, if the guy who gained to 20% body fat also gained more muscle than his counterparts, didn’t he succeed?
If Bodybuilder A trains for 5 years, hits 20% during that time period but also gained 80lbs, why would he be that worried abou his body fat percentage?
It becomes a personal preference…and the main thing that should matter is gaining enough muscle to justify any fat gain.[/quote]
Because a Bber needs to cut 50lbs then. Please ask any Bber that has needed to cut that much if they would ever do it again. Stu has stated it was dumb that he did it. JM hated that he did it. He didn’t gain any more mass than staying at 12.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Lol you said over 20%. That would be more than 3%. And I only said 17 Becuase it gets hard to start determining after 15.
My profile is old and have stated where I am at many times since the big mass monsters like you and X like to call me out. Started at 155. Now 220 kept my 6pack the whole time. Would you like more details?[/quote]
Dude, do you realize how much taller you are? You have made good progress…but some of us do want more size than that.
Also, it does not get hard to dertermine body fat over 15%. Who told you this? Since MOST PEOPLE are over 15% that would completely eliminate fat readings for most of the population.
[/quote]
Who said I am done? Why am I judged on what I have done in 2 years. Why do I have to stop at that size? I want more size lol
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Because a Bber needs to cut 50lbs then.
[/quote]
So?
Not only that, but no one should be going from that directly into some sort of contest prep anyway…and further, what if he never competes?
If someone is going to compete, I would recommend they try leaning up to 10% (or about, the number means little) and trying to hold that weight for a while.
Given that the idea is that the person feeding themselves enough will also make more progress if not dieting constantly, you are talking about walking around with some serious muscle that just needs to be dieted down.
I gained very quickly initially…which does help because that means I can spend even more time getting even bigger than someone who “slow gained” their way to 220lbs.
This is not a forum for contest prep…and many people here will never compete.
From MW (not my definition):
perma-bulker(s) (adj.) - Used to describe the individual who is in a perpetual state of “bulking”. They tend to engage in gluttunous eating habits, dabble with anabolic/androgenic steroids and countless supplements in order to grow as large and as heavy as they can with the false delusions of “ripping it down” for the next bodybuilding pageant 16 months away. As it gets closer to the pageant that was 16 weeks away their plans change to the NEXT pageant 8 months after the previous one. The cycle never ends. Often heard chirping remarks such as… " I should be like 230 at my show, dude… I’m gonna stay a Super, bro… I’m so winning that show next year, man… watch! "
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Because a Bber needs to cut 50lbs then. Please ask any Bber that has needed to cut that much if they would ever do it again. Stu has stated it was dumb that he did it. JM hated that he did it. He didn’t gain any more mass than staying at 12.
[/quote]
Don’t make this about bodybuilding. We aint all here as aspiring bb’ers. I’m not.
I want to be big and strong. Lean comes in third place FOR ME.[/quote]
Please go back and noticed X brought up a Bber and that’s why I continued with it
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Because a Bber needs to cut 50lbs then.
[/quote]
So?
Not only that, but no one should be going from that directly into some sort of contest prep anyway…and further, what if he never competes?
If someone is going to compete, I would recommend they try leaning up to 10% (or about, the number means little) and trying to hold that weight for a while.
Given that the idea is that the person feeding themselves enough will also make more progress if not dieting constantly, you are talking about walking around with some serious muscle that just needs to be dieted down.
I gained very quickly initially…which does help because that means I can spend even more time getting even bigger than someone who “slow gained” their way to 220lbs.
This is not a forum for contest prep…and many people here will never compete.[/quote]
So 65lbs over two years is slow gaining?
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
From MW (not my definition):
perma-bulker(s) (adj.) - Used to describe the individual who is in a perpetual state of “bulking”. They tend to engage in gluttunous eating habits, dabble with anabolic/androgenic steroids and countless supplements in order to grow as large and as heavy as they can with the false delusions of “ripping it down” for the next bodybuilding pageant 16 months away. As it gets closer to the pageant that was 16 weeks away their plans change to the NEXT pageant 8 months after the previous one. The cycle never ends. Often heard chirping remarks such as… " I should be like 230 at my show, dude… I’m gonna stay a Super, bro… I’m so winning that show next year, man… watch! "[/quote]
Lol perfect
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Also I am offering information from people who actually know what they are doing. Ebomb stu, zraw brick jm austin bicep bugThe people that are big and lean. The approaches I speak of and not getting sloppy are from them as well. They all are big and developed. Sorry I am not big enough to impress. I am happy with my 2 years of serious training progress. Give me a couple more before you go full retard pissy on me[/quote]
I respect each of them.
But honest-to-God you don’t need to speak for them. Seriously.[/quote]
I’m not I merely stating that I agree with them and it works
What always gets me is that X and push and others like them always talk down to guys like ryanbCXG, acting as if he’ll never get any bigger or stronger just because he decided to stay leaner. It just seems funny to me that you “bigger guys” always look at all the leaner guys as if that is all the progress they’ll ever make and that there is probably no way they’ll ever end up as big or strong as you. Really, push, you and X are big and strong. Hell, I’ve stated numerous times that I respect X’s physique and I can say I respect how much weight you are slinging around, push. However, you two are both quite a bit older than many of the “lean guys” that you are acting like will never get near as big or strong as you. I mean, really, X is quite a bit bigger than I am at this point. However, I’m only 22. That means I have another 13-15 years of controlled bulking to get to his size. I think I’ll do just fine. Just because some of the young whipper-snappers aren’t doing things how you did doesn’t mean they won’t end up big and mean in the end just like you two.
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
What always gets me is that X and push and others like them always talk down to guys like ryanbCXG, acting as if he’ll never get any bigger or stronger just because he decided to stay leaner. It just seems funny to me that you “bigger guys” always look at all the leaner guys as if that is all the progress they’ll ever make and that there is probably no way they’ll ever end up as big or strong as you. Really, push, you and X are big and strong. Hell, I’ve stated numerous times that I respect X’s physique and I can say I respect how much weight you are slinging around, push. However, you two are both quite a bit older than many of the “lean guys” that you are acting like will never get near as big or strong as you. I mean, really, X is quite a bit bigger than I am at this point. However, I’m only 22. That means I have another 13-15 years of controlled bulking to get to his size. I think I’ll do just fine. Just because some of the young whipper-snappers aren’t doing things how you did doesn’t mean they won’t end up big and mean in the end just like you two.[/quote]
Thanks man. I have a long way to go and a lot of time. I am new to serious training for bbing. 2 years IMO is pretty new. I had lifted and trained hard for sports for plenty of time before that. But not bbing and not eating for it.
But just keep doing your thing. If something stops working find out what to do to progress and keep pushing. As long as you make progress year to year.