Bulking How Its Done

Training
381

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Since you brought it up what was your first cycle and what did you gain MG?[/quote]

If I remember correctly, and I’m a little fuzzy. It started off at 3-400mg of test cyp, I soon added in equivalent amounts of deca, and gradually increased the dosage over the next 16-20 weeks, throwing in dbol along the way, and I think drol at the end??. After I’d come off and recovered I kept just under 20lbs.
[/quote]

hold on just a minute, so you cycled for twice as long as me, used more than twice the amount of total gear (increasing as you went), used stronger anabolic compounds and kept just under 20lbs?

I cycled for half the time, used less than half your total gear, only used one compound and kept the dosages the same and gained 8lbs.

Was my cycle really so bad? Seems to me like comparatively speaking we were about the same.

382

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Oh, and, inb4 X with, “I’m never mean, I just tell the truth. Show me one time that I haven’t been respectful of another person’s opinion”, and the subsequent SS long post of all the times he hasn’t.[/quote]

Oh, you mean this?

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:
I generally find X annoying and argumentative, but why the fuck is everyone so willing to argue semantics in this case. Let’s just get back to the stuff that is entertaining at least. [/quote]

This is all they do. As if it was ever different?

They spend hours literally lying and making shit up just to argue even if they really agree with what was written…and then some of you keep cheering it on…[/quote]

Because you’ve done it for 11 years and people are finally tired of your BS. That’s why it gets cheered on. It’s like seeing the school bully finally get his ass kicked, or the loudmouth, shit-talking drunk getting punched in the face.

It did used to be different in that people used to simply tolerate your attitude. It didn’t have to be this way. You made your bed now you have to lie in it.

[/quote]

Ahh, so in your twisted head, you are going to act in a way you claim you hate?

You do realize what a hypocrite is, right?[/quote]

Absolutely. But the kicker is I only do it to you. An eye for an eye. You, on the other hand, are a complete dick to everyone that disagrees with anything you have to say.

Stop being a prick and you will stop seeing prickish posts from me to you. I’m not going to hold my breath.[/quote]

LOl at this. Apparently telling you the truth is “being a prick” to you.

You can rant about how lean you are, but if I ever mention I have more muscle than you, then that is me acting “superior”.

Got it.

You guys are a waste and detriment to this forum if this is all you are about.

For real.[/quote]

Wrong. The “truth” has nothing to do with it.

THIS is being a prick:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I hope what you just wrote doesn’t make sense to even you.[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Thank you for that. I have “doctor” in front of my name but there is always basic shit about biology that I missed. I shall credit that for my weight gain.
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I could say that this is one more reason why you should not limit your thinking. You can make huge assumptions when you do. I am a DMD, the type who uses a scalpel and sutures on an almost daily basis.
[/quote]

THIS is being a prick:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Or more recently, the famous pre-fatigue thread where you completely got the concept wrong, refused to admit you were wrong, but later changed you’re mind without offering an apology.

first…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would I want to “pre-fatigue” my chest on CHEST DAY???[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.
I’m doing it wrong.[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You usually only pre-fatigue a muscle if it is interfering or becoming the optimal mover in an exercise when the goal is another muscle group. [/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That is WHY you pre-exhaust a muscle group…so it fails first and doesn’t interfere with the TARGET muscle group.

That is why pre-exhausting chest on CHEST DAY makes little sense.[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would I want to weaken my chest WHEN TRAINING MY CHEST IN PRIORITY??
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am laughing at how the definition got switched.
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Now mind you, your own personal experience shows this to be the case…but somehow I got it wrong.

I know this term may be used now in fitness sites, but in bodybuilding historically years ago, I think it meant getting a muscle that fires first when you don’t want it to to tire first.[/quote]

then later…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am also NOT disagreeing with the other concept if anyone is still arguing that for some reason.
[/quote][/quote]

THIS is being a prick:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

Reminds people constantly he’s a doctor.

Brags constantly about his education.

Asks people if they need him to repeat what he just wrote.

Asks people if he needs to write it out in crayon.

Asks people who argue with him in multiple threads if they’re gay.

Asks people if English is their first language.

Constantly tries to convince everyone to accept the inflated image he has of himself.

Is constantly sarcastic and condescending.

But I suppose none of the above is being a prick. It’s just pointing out when people are wrong.[/quote]

Let me end this by quoting the most famous asshole in all of T-Nation:

Let me know if I need to repeat that again lest that basic message be lost again.

  • Professor X
    [/quote]

Yes, I’m still waiting.

383

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
The OP really wasn’t asking for help. I saw this thread as more of a survey. Like, “Hey, how do you all like to do it?” Not, “Hey, tell me how your way is best”.[/quote]

Isn’t that essentially the same thing? Of course the way you do it is the way you think is the best and then give reasons why. [/quote]

I would say asking for help would be saying here is what I am doing fix it or tell me what to do.

A poll is more seeing how ppl prefer and why [/quote]

Yeah I’m all for that but there is some distinction between someone telling me how they prefer to gain muscle when they have looked essentially the same for the last ten years of their training life and have not reached a respectable level of development, and someone who has been in the trenches and accomplished something reasonable.

I see the same things over and over again. People use their own results and extrapolate their worldview from that. They do not ever assume at first that maybe they made a mistake somewhere. Then their world view becomes the only worldview possible.

For example, one person says that 8 pounds is perfectly acceptable for a 12 week first time test cycle, and suddenly thats the gold standard for first cycles. More people chime in with their own similar experience and all of a sudden thats all that is humanly possible from a first cycle.

Thats because some people know what the fuck they’re doing and most don’t. But everybody has an opinion. The truth is though there is a magic formula for muscle growth, and it sounds easy to grasp on paper. So easy in fact you can follow that paper theory, make some gains and think you’ve got it nailed.

The reality is though its more like playing a violin. Yeah, given the instructions most people could play one, and get something out of it, but the ones who’ve made it sing have learned the fine details of the art.

If you wanted to learn the violin, who would you want to learn from?
[/quote]

This was a good post.

Not only that, but I don’t see anyone here saying there was only one way to do things.

384

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
The OP really wasn’t asking for help. I saw this thread as more of a survey. Like, “Hey, how do you all like to do it?” Not, “Hey, tell me how your way is best”.[/quote]

Isn’t that essentially the same thing? Of course the way you do it is the way you think is the best and then give reasons why. [/quote]

Yes, that is essentially the same thing.

Perplexed at a thread about bulking containing people who bitch that people who did it are talking about it.

Holy crap what is wrong here?

385

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Since you brought it up what was your first cycle and what did you gain MG?[/quote]

If I remember correctly, and I’m a little fuzzy. It started off at 3-400mg of test cyp, I soon added in equivalent amounts of deca, and gradually increased the dosage over the next 16-20 weeks, throwing in dbol along the way, and I think drol at the end??. After I’d come off and recovered I kept just under 20lbs.
[/quote]

hold on just a minute, so you cycled for twice as long as me, used more than twice the amount of total gear (increasing as you went), used stronger anabolic compounds and kept just under 20lbs?

I cycled for half the time, used less than half your total gear, only used one compound and kept the dosages the same and gained 8lbs.

Was my cycle really so bad? Seems to me like comparatively speaking we were about the same.
[/quote]

It was a learning experience. I’d have done it differently if I knew what I know now. The cycle did not need to be as long as it was, most of the gains dried up after the twelve week mark. I still got stronger but not much bigger. And it really isn’t as simple as twice the dosage equals twice the gains, the returns are diminishing. Getting eight pounds out of a cycle is relatively easy. I always want at least 15lbs (dont get me wrong I have not got this out of every cycle I’ve ran) of keepable gains out of mine, so that changes things a little, espc since it gets harder and harder to do that each time I cycle.

In a way I’m agreeing with you, cycles don’t need to be run for more than 8 to 12 weeks, but my main point is if you’re going to do it then why not go all out and go for maximum gains. 8lbs is not a bad result, but if you can do better, then you should. Then the risk reward ratio for cycling is much more favourable.

And also, I am no easy gaining freak by any stretch of the imagination. Muscle gains for me are hard to come by, I feel like I’ve had to fight for every pound even with gear. I also think other people doing it right will get even more out of it than I have, I’m not exactly a spring chicken either.

386

I think most people have unrealistic expectations of what they will net from a cycle.

After the dust settles and your hormones return to normal, you may just end up with peanuts. And endocrine problems.

If you began after having an appreciable amount of bodily development, you might just be thrilled to hold on to a handful of pounds.

387

I really don’t understand why there is such a heated argument about the validity of the classic cutting/bulking notions.

People need to realize that information, ideas, modalities etc are not always meant to be adhered to by those from all grades of experience. If an obvious beginner came up to you, the resident gym swole-house, and asked for advice on getting big are you going to explain the most technical and precise dietary approach or are you going to tell them to eat big, then eat less? If someone does not have the necessary skills to maintain a consistent dietary surplus or deficit, how would they be able to do both during a given week based on bodily cues they have no attunement for?

Sometimes the question isn’t what is optimal but what is going to yield results for who is asking.

388

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
I really don’t understand why there is such a heated argument about the validity of the classic cutting/bulking notions.

People need to realize that information, ideas, modalities etc are not always meant to be adhered to by those from all grades of experience. If an obvious beginner came up to you, the resident gym swole-house, and asked for advice on getting big are you going to explain the most technical and precise dietary approach or are you going to tell them to eat big, then eat less? If someone does not have the necessary skills to maintain a consistent dietary surplus or deficit, how would they be able to do both during a given week based on bodily cues they have no attunement for?

Sometimes the question isn’t what is optimal but what is going to yield results for who is asking.
[/quote]

Well said.

389

Yay, X has another guy to agree with him. That’s like, what, 5 guys in 10 years? Not too shabby.

391

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

…If an obvious beginner came up to you, the resident gym swole-house, and asked for advice on getting big are you going to explain the most technical and precise dietary approach or are you going to tell them to eat big, then eat less? If someone does not have the necessary skills to maintain a consistent dietary surplus or deficit, how would they be able to do both during a given week based on bodily cues they have no attunement for?

Sometimes the question isn’t what is optimal but what is going to yield results for who is asking.
[/quote]

I can’t help but agree.

I believe the average “obvious” beginner, or even an intermediate, might just get too caught up in all the minutia of counting macros and being exquisitely precise in maintaining sub 15% when what he MAY really need is open up the spigot (within reason) and flat out get after it for awhile.

Yes, he may overdo it. Yes, he may exceed 15% or even 20%. So what? If he’s got the will to lift, eat and sleep with sincere dedication he likely will have the will to go from 20% back down to 10 - 15%.

One of the positive aspects of the “Get outta my way, I gotta eat” approach is, for an ectomorph and/or one who has leaned ectomorph all his life, he finally sees the scale start to move and strength start to noticeably, sometimes dramatically increase. This psychological boost can be a tremendous motivator vs the slow, methodical, incremental .397 lbs per month alternative.

I’m not sure this has been mentioned before in these ongoing Bulk Battles but I personally attest to it. Do with it what you will.[/quote]

I will say that a lot of people can do really well on a very simple diet that just sets up some ground rules on what you can and cannot eat and turns you loose. Tim Henriques The Simple Diet is an example of this.

392

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Yay, X has another guy to agree with him. That’s like, what, 5 guys in 10 years? Not too shabby.[/quote]

This is a popularity contest?

I thought this was about how to bulk.

393

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

…If an obvious beginner came up to you, the resident gym swole-house, and asked for advice on getting big are you going to explain the most technical and precise dietary approach or are you going to tell them to eat big, then eat less? If someone does not have the necessary skills to maintain a consistent dietary surplus or deficit, how would they be able to do both during a given week based on bodily cues they have no attunement for?

Sometimes the question isn’t what is optimal but what is going to yield results for who is asking.
[/quote]

I can’t help but agree.

I believe the average “obvious” beginner, or even an intermediate, might just get too caught up in all the minutia of counting macros and being exquisitely precise in maintaining sub 15% when what he MAY really need is open up the spigot (within reason) and flat out get after it for awhile.

Yes, he may overdo it. Yes, he may exceed 15% or even 20%. So what? If he’s got the will to lift, eat and sleep with sincere dedication he likely will have the will to go from 20% back down to 10 - 15%.

One of the positive aspects of the “Get outta my way, I gotta eat” approach is, for an ectomorph and/or one who has leaned ectomorph all his life, he finally sees the scale start to move and strength start to noticeably, sometimes dramatically increase. This psychological boost can be a tremendous motivator vs the slow, methodical, incremental .397 lbs per month alternative.

I’m not sure this has been mentioned before in these ongoing Bulk Battles but I personally attest to it. Do with it what you will.[/quote]

I definitely think this is a good way to kick start your LBM gains. Most here had a “heavy” bulking period which much mass was gained. Great for beginners who are typically teenagers and growing. This is how I got much of my mass as well as many others.

As someone continues to advance their nutrition and body, I believe this approach is like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight. It becomes way overkill. One is more in tune with their body and knows how it responds to different variables. Once progress seems to stall, adding in a few cheat days or weeks can definitely be beneficial to break a plateau, but anything more than that is completely unnecessary and counterproductive in my opinion.

394

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

I definitely think this is a good way to kick start your LBM gains. Most here had a “heavy” bulking period which much mass was gained. Great for beginners who are typically teenagers and growing. This is how I got much of my mass as well as many others.

As someone continues to advance their nutrition and body, I believe this approach is like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight. It becomes way overkill. One is more in tune with their body and knows how it responds to different variables. Once progress seems to stall, adding in a few cheat days or weeks can definitely be beneficial to break a plateau, but anything more than that is completely unnecessary and counterproductive in my opinion. [/quote]

That would depend on the end product.

I know my “shot gun” approach is what helped me stay focused through some seriously rough times in my life that would take many people out of the gym completely.

If at the end the guy is fucking huge and not obese, he did it right…no way around that.

I agree with you that as time moves on you adjust and make tighter controls on diet…but it is completely individual where that line is and is based on the RESULTS above all else.

397

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

…If an obvious beginner came up to you, the resident gym swole-house, and asked for advice on getting big are you going to explain the most technical and precise dietary approach or are you going to tell them to eat big, then eat less? If someone does not have the necessary skills to maintain a consistent dietary surplus or deficit, how would they be able to do both during a given week based on bodily cues they have no attunement for?

Sometimes the question isn’t what is optimal but what is going to yield results for who is asking.
[/quote]

I can’t help but agree.

I believe the average “obvious” beginner, or even an intermediate, might just get too caught up in all the minutia of counting macros and being exquisitely precise in maintaining sub 15% when what he MAY really need is to open up the spigot (within reason) and flat out get after it for awhile.

Yes, he may overdo it. Yes, he may exceed 15% or even 20%. So what? If he’s got the will to lift, eat and sleep with sincere dedication he likely will have the will to go from 20% back down to 10 - 15%.

One of the positive aspects of the “Get outta my way, I gotta eat” approach is, for an ectomorph and/or one who has leaned ectomorph all his life, he finally sees the scale start to move and strength start to noticeably, sometimes dramatically increase. This psychological boost can be a tremendous motivator vs the slow, methodical, incremental .397 lbs per month alternative.

I’m not sure this has been mentioned before in these ongoing Bulk Battles but I personally attest to it. Do with it what you will.[/quote]

There is no reason to get to 20%. You are not gaining extra mass (ie muscle) while piling on that much fat. 15-17ish is plenty high for a first big push in weight after that if done right there will be no need to go above 12. It won’t help only hinder

398

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

Most here had a “heavy” bulking period which much mass was gained.

[/quote]

Which is why I said, “average “obvious” beginner, or even an intermediate.”

Well, I did it in my 40’s.

At the age of 46 I decided I didn’t want to be what I considered “small” for the rest of my life (for whatever reasons). It was fun. It was exciting. The gawddamn scale finally started to move without the aid of a magnifying lens. It thrilled me to get to the gym and manipulate all those extra calories into muscle and strength.

Like I said, there’s more to this than just the physiological. The psychological plays a huge part.
[/quote]

I didn’t clarify fully on that. I meant a lot of people start lifting in high school, thus why I mentioned it.