Bulking, Good Progress But I Want More

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Alright, and I added more volume to my workouts, and added at least one more top set to each exercise, following something similar to kingbeefs 5x split recommendation.

As far as the cardio, when do you recommend I do it? After workouts and on free days? so something like on chest day, on one rest day, and on shoulder day?

…btw I am excited to have made these improvements…It is so awesome when people tell me “wow you have gotten so much bigger” so I am definitely determined to get even bigger and leaner!

Thanks for all the help so far man

Also, what are your reasons for adding cardio? health? keep gains lean? combination of the two?
jw, im still adding it but wanna knwo your reasons[/quote]

I do cardio for health reasons…because I also believe it or not like running. I used to run close to 35 miles or so a week when I weighed about 140lbs…So running is not something I just decided to get rid of when I made an effort to gain size again. I now run 2-3 days a week depending on how I feel, look, weigh…and I typically do it on rest days. Usually on an empty stomach in the morning before I go to work. But, if I don’t have time before work…I’ll just run at night when I get off work. At the end of the day its the calorie intake and expenditure that matter MOST. That’s not to say you won’t burn fatty acid stores a bit more effectively if it is fasted in the morning…you will to an extent. But, those types of details tend to only matter when someone is attempting to get into single digit bodyfat… For most other people just fitting in it will be beneficial in terms of health and in my opinion helps keep conditioning under control.

2-3 days a week man…20-30 days simple solid state. If you include HIIT or sprint work…you are going to need to treat that like another training session. I typically don’t do sprint work at all…my job is already too labor intensive and I eat under maintenence calories on my rest days…I just don’t feel it’s conducive for me.[/quote]
Alright thanks, started cardio for the first time this morning, woke up (fasted obviously) and went for a 25 minutes jog whoo that felt good!

Do you take BCAAs or anything before morning runs? or do you just go completely fasted? I have been trying to get out of the mentality of “my muscles are burning right now” if I am fasted. When I got home, I had a normal post workout meal- chicken breast, bunch of white rice, olive oil shot.

How should I treat my nutrition around cardio? Just like weight training? Like for example, the same post workout meal after cardio?

Also, I will be doing cardio on one of my training days (probably on an upper body day, like shoulders or chest), so should I do the cardio right after my weight training workout? Like just do a chest workout then go straight to the treadmill (or stairstepper or whatever I feel like) and go right into 20-30 minutes steady pace?
My body wont be in a “muscle burning state” (for lack of better term) if I go right into cardio after a workout, will it?

BTW thanks a whole damn lot WOW I feel good after this thread

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
Question, wouldn’t fasting and then eating a large meal over long periods of time have a diabetic effect on your body? Or atleast ur pancreas? It sounds like its having to work doubly hard. ( I know doubly is not a word, I think it sounds cool. Double-ly)

I still haven’t studied on mcdonalds articles yet. so from someone who has(researched fasting), do you think there are any risk involved?[/quote]

Enough already Mike T, just stop.

Google “top ten fasting myths” and educate yourself already.

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
My body wont be in a “muscle burning state” (for lack of better term) if I go right into cardio after a workout, will it?[/quote]
Not any more than when you do it fasted, both time glycogen stores are pretty much empty and you are in an optimal state for fat burning.

Wheres the Creatine?

[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
My body wont be in a “muscle burning state” (for lack of better term) if I go right into cardio after a workout, will it?[/quote]
Not any more than when you do it fasted, both time glycogen stores are pretty much empty and you are in an optimal state for fat burning.[/quote]
Ahh ok gotcha

I actually read that exercising (cardio) while in a fasted state does not burn any more fat than if you were to have had carbs beforehand…

Feel free to add your input on this, as it is an interesting point.

Cant find the article now BTW but lets discuss

T-Nation: Holy crap, Lowery, leave something for the others to talk about! Okay, Barr, let’s hear your opinion. Is fasted cardio good or bad?

David Barr: It’s horrible! We should never be completely fasted for any reason. As soon as you’re protein starved, you start breaking down muscle, which directly contradicts our goals, whether they be fat loss, muscle growth, or athletic performance.

Throw a catabolic activity like cardio on top of that and you’re practically begging to waste away. Fortunately, it’s not too difficult to prevent this muscle catabolism, because all we have to do is eat a little protein.

…Taken from article

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
T-Nation: Holy crap, Lowery, leave something for the others to talk about! Okay, Barr, let’s hear your opinion. Is fasted cardio good or bad?

David Barr: It’s horrible! We should never be completely fasted for any reason. As soon as you’re protein starved, you start breaking down muscle, which directly contradicts our goals, whether they be fat loss, muscle growth, or athletic performance.

Throw a catabolic activity like cardio on top of that and you’re practically begging to waste away. Fortunately, it’s not too difficult to prevent this muscle catabolism, because all we have to do is eat a little protein.

…Taken from article[/quote]

I just don’t buy that man… Think about this logically…you have plenty of fatty acid stores in your body, and on top of that you have plenty of glycogen stores via the liver and skeletal muscle storage. We know that low to moderate intensity activity favors fatty acids for fuel and higher intensity favors glucose basically. We also know how difficult of a process it is to convert protein into fatty acids in the body…

Why would your body try to do that and use muscle protein as fuel when you clearly have fatty acid stores as well as glycogen stores? Whether or not aminos are in your blood or not…why would your body do that?

I disagree with Barr.

Great reply…

As far as post workout nutrition, should I treat it the same as post workout (weights)?
Also, is cardio right after a chest workout ok? (no break or whey between)

Thanks man

BCAA’s before fasted cardio = a must

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
BCAA’s before fasted cardio = a must[/quote]

Honestly…do you wake up every morning and read The Broscience Bible?

WOW…Just calculated my protein for the day to see where I am at…
Fucking 180 grams?!

WTF… isnt 1.5 to 2 G per POUND OF BODYWEIGHT necessary? I am way fucking under that considering I weight 234. Another wake up call from this thread

Gosh damn this is gonna be a challenge to pretty much almost DOUBLE MY PROTEIN…

today, for example:

cardio,
chicken+rice+olive oil- 700 cals, 33 g protein
whey+ oats shake= 300 cals, 25 G protein
chicken+rice+olive oil- 500 cals, 26 G protein
chicken+rice+olive oil- 500 cals, 26 G protein
whey+milk= 250 cals, 35 G protein
whey+olive oil= 350 cals, 26 G protein

…2600 cals and 180 G protein. Fucking low on cals too wow

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
WOW…Just calculated my protein for the day to see where I am at…
Fucking 180 grams?!

WTF… isnt 1.5 to 2 G per POUND OF BODYWEIGHT necessary? I am way fucking under that considering I weight 234. Another wake up call from this thread

Gosh damn this is gonna be a challenge to pretty much almost DOUBLE MY PROTEIN…

today, for example:

cardio,
chicken+rice+olive oil- 700 cals, 33 g protein
whey+ oats shake= 300 cals, 25 G protein
chicken+rice+olive oil- 500 cals, 26 G protein
chicken+rice+olive oil- 500 cals, 26 G protein
whey+milk= 250 cals, 35 G protein
whey+olive oil= 350 cals, 26 G protein

…2600 cals and 180 G protein. Fucking low on cals too wow[/quote]

Yea man…those macros are more like mine dude an I’m about 150lbs. Today I had approx 230g of protein…

See…It’s good to check your cals and macros to REALLY know how much you are eating. About 1g per lb of bodyweight is a good starting point…so if you can get your protein to around 240gs or so a day at first, that would be good.

Yea man I calculated it three times, like “wtf? I havent eaten shit today!”

Guess I’ll squeeze in more carbs (for cals) and some more chicken breast somewhere for protein!

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
BCAA’s before fasted (heavy) lifting = a must[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
T-Nation: Holy crap, Lowery, leave something for the others to talk about! Okay, Barr, let’s hear your opinion. Is fasted cardio good or bad?

David Barr: It’s horrible! We should never be completely fasted for any reason. As soon as you’re protein starved, you start breaking down muscle, which directly contradicts our goals, whether they be fat loss, muscle growth, or athletic performance.

Throw a catabolic activity like cardio on top of that and you’re practically begging to waste away. Fortunately, it’s not too difficult to prevent this muscle catabolism, because all we have to do is eat a little protein.

…Taken from article[/quote]

I just don’t buy that man… Think about this logically…you have plenty of fatty acid stores in your body, and on top of that you have plenty of glycogen stores via the liver and skeletal muscle storage. We know that low to moderate intensity activity favors fatty acids for fuel and higher intensity favors glucose basically. We also know how difficult of a process it is to convert protein into fatty acids in the body…

Why would your body try to do that and use muscle protein as fuel when you clearly have fatty acid stores as well as glycogen stores? Whether or not aminos are in your blood or not…why would your body do that?

I disagree with Barr.[/quote]

I bet even Barr doesn’t believe that anymore.

Times change, new research gets produced and incorporated, “conventional wisdom” goes from passe to en vogue and back again…

point being: keep an open mind and keep reading

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]Mike T. wrote:
BCAA’s before fasted cardio = a must[/quote]

Honestly…do you wake up every morning and read The Broscience Bible?[/quote]

I only go to service on Sundays :frowning: