Bulking by T-Nation Standards

Nutrition
121

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]jotenko wrote:
Hello all

First of all, Im a portuguese bodybuilder, im about 178cm, at 73kg, 16%BF. I was 60 kg when I started ± 1 year ago, though I go to the gym about 3 years.

I guess this is a though road for learning.

I come to this forum once in a while, and I notice that your mindset is much wider concerning food. I mean, normally, everywhere you see something like “dont eat garbage!” “only eat clean foods” “stay away from beer, not even one a year!!” “dont eat fast food” etc etc

When I come here, I see people talking about alcohol, and eating at macdonalds, and it seems to be fine to everyone.

For my experience, during the time I ate dirty, I had the most impressive results, but also my BF really increased. Once I cleaned up my diet, and I mean REALLY CLEANING IT UP, I had gains but slower gains.

What’s your opinion here about this??? And why do I find people in this forum which think it is OK to have some alcohol and “bad” foods??

Thanks[/quote]

At 16 % bf,you should start a fat-cutting phase ,until you get to about 10%.
[/quote]

Waiting for Professor X and camp followers to see this one. :)[/quote]

Why?

The retard level of this site is growing way too fast to worry about responding to all of it.

But it is nice to see people relying on some arbitrary number instead of any critical thinking skills.

Our course of evolution has been set…a few more thousand years, and we won’t even need that brain that is getting in the way of making more room for really cool hairstyles.

122

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.

123

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]jotenko wrote:
Hello all

First of all, Im a portuguese bodybuilder, im about 178cm, at 73kg, 16%BF. I was 60 kg when I started ± 1 year ago, though I go to the gym about 3 years.

I guess this is a though road for learning.

I come to this forum once in a while, and I notice that your mindset is much wider concerning food. I mean, normally, everywhere you see something like “dont eat garbage!” “only eat clean foods” “stay away from beer, not even one a year!!” “dont eat fast food” etc etc

When I come here, I see people talking about alcohol, and eating at macdonalds, and it seems to be fine to everyone.

For my experience, during the time I ate dirty, I had the most impressive results, but also my BF really increased. Once I cleaned up my diet, and I mean REALLY CLEANING IT UP, I had gains but slower gains.

What’s your opinion here about this??? And why do I find people in this forum which think it is OK to have some alcohol and “bad” foods??

Thanks[/quote]

At 16 % bf,you should start a fat-cutting phase ,until you get to about 10%.
[/quote]

Waiting for Professor X and camp followers to see this one. :)[/quote]

Why?

The retard level of this site is growing way too fast to worry about responding to all of it.

But it is nice to see people relying on some arbitrary number instead of any critical thinking skills.

Our course of evolution has been set…a few more thousand years, and we won’t even need that brain that is getting in the way of making more room for really cool hairstyles.
[/quote]

Hey X,

I was just being goofy–nothing against you. I was just alluding to the fact that this topic has been beaten to death.

I’m neither absolutely for or against big bulking. It depends on the person–genetics, how much they want to sacrifice and calculate things, their budget and time, etc.

Yes, the retard level of this site is off the charts at this point, hence why the entertainment factor of posting has gone downhill for me and why I don’t post much anymore.

As I’ve said a million times: I’m surprised most on here can hold down a job or complete a college course–not because of low intellectual ability, but because of the constant nitpicking and need for hand holding and questioning–ENDLESS fucking questioning and analyzing and comparing!

Comparing: “You’re telling me to do _____?! Christian Thib and Poliquin don’t do that!” AS IF any one nutritionist or trainer is god and holds the only keys and secrets to getting bigger and better.

Analyzing: “Yeah, I heard the RFL diet is good. But like… wouldn’t you start burning protein for fuel if you’re low on carbs and fat?” AS IF any of us would need to or be inclined to use respiratory gas analysis to figure out what nutrient we’re using as a fuel source during every waking moment of the day.

Questioning: “I’m on a cut. Here’s my diet. How’s it look?” This one actually requires 30 to 60 minutes of work to take care of adequately–analyzing and re-calculating a diet if necessary.

124

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
As I’ve said a million times: I’m surprised most on here can hold down a job or complete a college course–not because of low intellectual ability, but because of the constant nitpicking and need for hand holding and questioning–ENDLESS fucking questioning and analyzing and comparing!
[/quote]

I was just talking about this with a friend the other day. I am in school right now working on my EMT/Paramedic certification and during class we have people asking the stupidest questions. They ask the most obscure things that you really dont even need to know in order to pass the national registry.

They over analyze EVERYTHING in the class and all it does is distract/confuse other students with their lame ass 1 in a million scenario questions. I guess the “Common sense isnt so common these days” saying really does apply.

125

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.

126

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.[/quote]

The thing is that people CAN (that is, they have the ability) to consume a relatively high calorie diet (5,000+) with “clean foods”. However, it can become absolute drudgery for some to do this; it’s time consuming and unenjoyable for most. Some don’t have a problem though. Mike Francois consumed 8,000+ calories per day from chicken, fish, rice, pasta, oatmeal, and egg white. Same goes for Dorian Yates, albeit less calories (6,000 to 7,000). But these are guys whose livelihood was dependent on this shit and all they did was train, sleep, and eat.

Michael Phelps consumes 10,000 calories a day, most of it from “dirty” foods (pastries, waffles, pizza, all sorts of fried shit). It CAN be done clean, but this guy actually has to train 4 to 6 hours per day plus do all the other stuff required to be a human being (socialize, errands).

127

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.[/quote]

The thing is that people CAN (that is, they have the ability) to consume a relatively high calorie diet (5,000+) with “clean foods”. However, it can become absolute drudgery for some to do this; it’s time consuming and unenjoyable for most. Some don’t have a problem though. Mike Francois consumed 8,000+ calories per day from chicken, fish, rice, pasta, oatmeal, and egg white. Same goes for Dorian Yates, albeit less calories (6,000 to 7,000). But these are guys whose livelihood was dependent on this shit and all they did was train, sleep, and eat.

Michael Phelps consumes 10,000 calories a day, most of it from “dirty” foods (pastries, waffles, pizza, all sorts of fried shit). It CAN be done clean, but this guy actually has to train 4 to 6 hours per day plus do all the other stuff required to be a human being (socialize, errands). [/quote]

I take in more than 5,000cals a day to maintain my weight right now (may be closer to 6 some days but I don’t count so this is all estimation). The majority of my diet is steaks, ground beef, protein supplements (I drink MAG-10 all day long right now), rice and things like that.

However, you can bet I will be stopping off for 2 large sliced beef sandwiches from Papa’s Barbeque this afternoon and may eat out again later on tonight…because if I didn’t eat those, I would literally have to find a way to shoe horn in two more meals during the day while treating patients…which is difficult to say the least.

What you just wrote is why. You have to eat in a way that will produce gains AND in a way that actually fits into your own individual lifestyle.

It makes no sense at all to sit there and not grow for years because you were afraid to eat any foods from the “non clean” category even though your body needed more calories.

If you can get away with it. COOL! Good for you! I eat more clean now because I can afford to. But let’s face it, I don’t think some of these guys really understand how much a larger bodybuilder spends on food in a week or the amount of time it takes to prep and eat it all…especially if he is trying to get all of his food from fish and chicken.

Also, not all of us are students who can eat all day if necessary. I can’t exactly stop in the middle of a procedure to go eat a pound of steak for 20min or however long it takes to get it down without indigestion. That is why shakes get thrown in or why some food is substituted for more calorically dense foods.

128

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.[/quote]

The thing is that people CAN (that is, they have the ability) to consume a relatively high calorie diet (5,000+) with “clean foods”. However, it can become absolute drudgery for some to do this; it’s time consuming and unenjoyable for most. Some don’t have a problem though. Mike Francois consumed 8,000+ calories per day from chicken, fish, rice, pasta, oatmeal, and egg white. Same goes for Dorian Yates, albeit less calories (6,000 to 7,000). But these are guys whose livelihood was dependent on this shit and all they did was train, sleep, and eat.

Michael Phelps consumes 10,000 calories a day, most of it from “dirty” foods (pastries, waffles, pizza, all sorts of fried shit). It CAN be done clean, but this guy actually has to train 4 to 6 hours per day plus do all the other stuff required to be a human being (socialize, errands). [/quote]

I take in more than 5,000cals a day to maintain my weight right now (may be closer to 6 some days but I don’t count so this is all estimation). The majority of my diet is steaks, ground beef, protein supplements (I drink MAG-10 all day long right now), rice and things like that.

However, you can bet I will be stopping off for 2 large sliced beef sandwiches from Papa’s Barbeque this afternoon and may eat out again later on tonight…because if I didn’t eat those, I would literally have to find a way to shoe horn in two more meals during the day while treating patients…which is difficult to say the least.

What you just wrote is why. You have to eat in a way that will produce gains AND in a way that actually fits into your own individual lifestyle.

It makes no sense at all to sit there and not grow for years because you were afraid to eat any foods from the “non clean” category even though your body needed more calories.

If you can get away with it. COOL! Good for you! I eat more clean now because I can afford to. But let’s face it, I don’t think some of these guys really understand how much a larger bodybuilder spends on food in a week or the amount of time it takes to prep and eat it all…especially if he is trying to get all of his food from fish and chicken.

Also, not all of us are students who can eat all day if necessary. I can’t exactly stop in the middle of a procedure to go eat a pound of steak for 20min or however long it takes to get it down without indigestion. That is why shakes get thrown in or why some food is substituted for more calorically dense foods.[/quote]

x, i have a question…
i am a former fatass who lost about 50 lbs(211-165). i am now 169@14%bf.
i’m currently bulking, as if go any lower there will be no muscle to show.
my diet is “clean”, as i can get over 4000 calories this way without a problem.

my question is, if i ever get too fat for my liking during the bulk, how do i do damage control?(quick loss of fat without sabotaging the bulk)?
thanks in advance!

129

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.[/quote]

The thing is that people CAN (that is, they have the ability) to consume a relatively high calorie diet (5,000+) with “clean foods”. However, it can become absolute drudgery for some to do this; it’s time consuming and unenjoyable for most. Some don’t have a problem though. Mike Francois consumed 8,000+ calories per day from chicken, fish, rice, pasta, oatmeal, and egg white. Same goes for Dorian Yates, albeit less calories (6,000 to 7,000). But these are guys whose livelihood was dependent on this shit and all they did was train, sleep, and eat.

Michael Phelps consumes 10,000 calories a day, most of it from “dirty” foods (pastries, waffles, pizza, all sorts of fried shit). It CAN be done clean, but this guy actually has to train 4 to 6 hours per day plus do all the other stuff required to be a human being (socialize, errands). [/quote]

I take in more than 5,000cals a day to maintain my weight right now (may be closer to 6 some days but I don’t count so this is all estimation). The majority of my diet is steaks, ground beef, protein supplements (I drink MAG-10 all day long right now), rice and things like that.

However, you can bet I will be stopping off for 2 large sliced beef sandwiches from Papa’s Barbeque this afternoon and may eat out again later on tonight…because if I didn’t eat those, I would literally have to find a way to shoe horn in two more meals during the day while treating patients…which is difficult to say the least.

What you just wrote is why. You have to eat in a way that will produce gains AND in a way that actually fits into your own individual lifestyle.

It makes no sense at all to sit there and not grow for years because you were afraid to eat any foods from the “non clean” category even though your body needed more calories.

If you can get away with it. COOL! Good for you! I eat more clean now because I can afford to. But let’s face it, I don’t think some of these guys really understand how much a larger bodybuilder spends on food in a week or the amount of time it takes to prep and eat it all…especially if he is trying to get all of his food from fish and chicken.

Also, not all of us are students who can eat all day if necessary. I can’t exactly stop in the middle of a procedure to go eat a pound of steak for 20min or however long it takes to get it down without indigestion. That is why shakes get thrown in or why some food is substituted for more calorically dense foods.[/quote]

x, i have a question…
i am a former fatass who lost about 50 lbs(211-165). i am now 169@14%bf.
i’m currently bulking, as if go any lower there will be no muscle to show.
my diet is “clean”, as i can get over 4000 calories this way without a problem.

my question is, if i ever get too fat for my liking during the bulk, how do i do damage control?(quick loss of fat without sabotaging the bulk)?
thanks in advance![/quote]

im not the professor (obviously) but use the search function to get some ideas. personally, if i find fat is getting out of control, i start going for a walk in the morning (half hour of brisk walking, nothing too crazy) before breakfast on off days.

130

[quote]actionboy wrote:

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.[/quote]

The thing is that people CAN (that is, they have the ability) to consume a relatively high calorie diet (5,000+) with “clean foods”. However, it can become absolute drudgery for some to do this; it’s time consuming and unenjoyable for most. Some don’t have a problem though. Mike Francois consumed 8,000+ calories per day from chicken, fish, rice, pasta, oatmeal, and egg white. Same goes for Dorian Yates, albeit less calories (6,000 to 7,000). But these are guys whose livelihood was dependent on this shit and all they did was train, sleep, and eat.

Michael Phelps consumes 10,000 calories a day, most of it from “dirty” foods (pastries, waffles, pizza, all sorts of fried shit). It CAN be done clean, but this guy actually has to train 4 to 6 hours per day plus do all the other stuff required to be a human being (socialize, errands). [/quote]

I take in more than 5,000cals a day to maintain my weight right now (may be closer to 6 some days but I don’t count so this is all estimation). The majority of my diet is steaks, ground beef, protein supplements (I drink MAG-10 all day long right now), rice and things like that.

However, you can bet I will be stopping off for 2 large sliced beef sandwiches from Papa’s Barbeque this afternoon and may eat out again later on tonight…because if I didn’t eat those, I would literally have to find a way to shoe horn in two more meals during the day while treating patients…which is difficult to say the least.

What you just wrote is why. You have to eat in a way that will produce gains AND in a way that actually fits into your own individual lifestyle.

It makes no sense at all to sit there and not grow for years because you were afraid to eat any foods from the “non clean” category even though your body needed more calories.

If you can get away with it. COOL! Good for you! I eat more clean now because I can afford to. But let’s face it, I don’t think some of these guys really understand how much a larger bodybuilder spends on food in a week or the amount of time it takes to prep and eat it all…especially if he is trying to get all of his food from fish and chicken.

Also, not all of us are students who can eat all day if necessary. I can’t exactly stop in the middle of a procedure to go eat a pound of steak for 20min or however long it takes to get it down without indigestion. That is why shakes get thrown in or why some food is substituted for more calorically dense foods.[/quote]

x, i have a question…
i am a former fatass who lost about 50 lbs(211-165). i am now 169@14%bf.
i’m currently bulking, as if go any lower there will be no muscle to show.
my diet is “clean”, as i can get over 4000 calories this way without a problem.

my question is, if i ever get too fat for my liking during the bulk, how do i do damage control?(quick loss of fat without sabotaging the bulk)?
thanks in advance![/quote]

im not the professor (obviously) but use the search function to get some ideas. personally, if i find fat is getting out of control, i start going for a walk in the morning (half hour of brisk walking, nothing too crazy) before breakfast on off days. [/quote]

i used the search function. i got the word 'damage control" from some t-cell thread.
i have school, football, rifling, and lacrosse practice so the only damage control i could do is dietary.

131

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.[/quote]

The thing is that people CAN (that is, they have the ability) to consume a relatively high calorie diet (5,000+) with “clean foods”. However, it can become absolute drudgery for some to do this; it’s time consuming and unenjoyable for most. Some don’t have a problem though. Mike Francois consumed 8,000+ calories per day from chicken, fish, rice, pasta, oatmeal, and egg white. Same goes for Dorian Yates, albeit less calories (6,000 to 7,000). But these are guys whose livelihood was dependent on this shit and all they did was train, sleep, and eat.

Michael Phelps consumes 10,000 calories a day, most of it from “dirty” foods (pastries, waffles, pizza, all sorts of fried shit). It CAN be done clean, but this guy actually has to train 4 to 6 hours per day plus do all the other stuff required to be a human being (socialize, errands). [/quote]

I take in more than 5,000cals a day to maintain my weight right now (may be closer to 6 some days but I don’t count so this is all estimation). The majority of my diet is steaks, ground beef, protein supplements (I drink MAG-10 all day long right now), rice and things like that.

However, you can bet I will be stopping off for 2 large sliced beef sandwiches from Papa’s Barbeque this afternoon and may eat out again later on tonight…because if I didn’t eat those, I would literally have to find a way to shoe horn in two more meals during the day while treating patients…which is difficult to say the least.

What you just wrote is why. You have to eat in a way that will produce gains AND in a way that actually fits into your own individual lifestyle.

It makes no sense at all to sit there and not grow for years because you were afraid to eat any foods from the “non clean” category even though your body needed more calories.

If you can get away with it. COOL! Good for you! I eat more clean now because I can afford to. But let’s face it, I don’t think some of these guys really understand how much a larger bodybuilder spends on food in a week or the amount of time it takes to prep and eat it all…especially if he is trying to get all of his food from fish and chicken.

Also, not all of us are students who can eat all day if necessary. I can’t exactly stop in the middle of a procedure to go eat a pound of steak for 20min or however long it takes to get it down without indigestion. That is why shakes get thrown in or why some food is substituted for more calorically dense foods.[/quote]

Exactly!

132

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

my question is, if i ever get too fat for my liking during the bulk, how do i do damage control?(quick loss of fat without sabotaging the bulk)?
thanks in advance![/quote]

Dude, I don’t mean to sarcastic here. However, I ask: What do you think?!

You subtract calories from your diet for some time until you’re at a place you want to be in. Isn’t that pretty simple? (Again, not being sarcastic or derogatory.)

You can do a “mini-diet” of sorts. It’s what Shelby Starnes does with his clients. Some people have done a two week stint of a protein sparing modified fast and then get back to what they initially were doing.

This is not complicated.

133

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]actionboy wrote:

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Not all calories are created equal, I guarentee a “clean” bulk will provide more muscle mass and less fat gain than “dirty” bulking even if the same amount of calories are consumed in each persons diet.[/quote]

^^I dont think anyone will argue this point.
[/quote]

I will because that depends on what “clean” even is and that individual’s personal metabolism. Guy A may not be able to eat many carbs at all without gaining a ton of fat. Guy B may need WAY more carbs to gain optimally. The same goes for fat intake and overall calories. That is why guys like Ced McMillan claim they didn’t grow until they loosened up on their diets a little.

Like I wrote already, STOP THINKING IN A BOX.

These terms are great for people who can’t think for themselves. Hell, those types won’t be growing much anyway.

If you plan to stand out, learn to think beyond these sweeping generalizations.

In the end, you need to find what works for you. The LAST thing you need to do is simply follow someone else’s guideline while ignoring your own progress.

No one cares how “clean” you ate if you aren’t gaining muscle well.[/quote]

The thing is that people CAN (that is, they have the ability) to consume a relatively high calorie diet (5,000+) with “clean foods”. However, it can become absolute drudgery for some to do this; it’s time consuming and unenjoyable for most. Some don’t have a problem though. Mike Francois consumed 8,000+ calories per day from chicken, fish, rice, pasta, oatmeal, and egg white. Same goes for Dorian Yates, albeit less calories (6,000 to 7,000). But these are guys whose livelihood was dependent on this shit and all they did was train, sleep, and eat.

Michael Phelps consumes 10,000 calories a day, most of it from “dirty” foods (pastries, waffles, pizza, all sorts of fried shit). It CAN be done clean, but this guy actually has to train 4 to 6 hours per day plus do all the other stuff required to be a human being (socialize, errands). [/quote]

I take in more than 5,000cals a day to maintain my weight right now (may be closer to 6 some days but I don’t count so this is all estimation). The majority of my diet is steaks, ground beef, protein supplements (I drink MAG-10 all day long right now), rice and things like that.

However, you can bet I will be stopping off for 2 large sliced beef sandwiches from Papa’s Barbeque this afternoon and may eat out again later on tonight…because if I didn’t eat those, I would literally have to find a way to shoe horn in two more meals during the day while treating patients…which is difficult to say the least.

What you just wrote is why. You have to eat in a way that will produce gains AND in a way that actually fits into your own individual lifestyle.

It makes no sense at all to sit there and not grow for years because you were afraid to eat any foods from the “non clean” category even though your body needed more calories.

If you can get away with it. COOL! Good for you! I eat more clean now because I can afford to. But let’s face it, I don’t think some of these guys really understand how much a larger bodybuilder spends on food in a week or the amount of time it takes to prep and eat it all…especially if he is trying to get all of his food from fish and chicken.

Also, not all of us are students who can eat all day if necessary. I can’t exactly stop in the middle of a procedure to go eat a pound of steak for 20min or however long it takes to get it down without indigestion. That is why shakes get thrown in or why some food is substituted for more calorically dense foods.[/quote]

x, i have a question…
i am a former fatass who lost about 50 lbs(211-165). i am now 169@14%bf.
i’m currently bulking, as if go any lower there will be no muscle to show.
my diet is “clean”, as i can get over 4000 calories this way without a problem.

my question is, if i ever get too fat for my liking during the bulk, how do i do damage control?(quick loss of fat without sabotaging the bulk)?
thanks in advance![/quote]

im not the professor (obviously) but use the search function to get some ideas. personally, if i find fat is getting out of control, i start going for a walk in the morning (half hour of brisk walking, nothing too crazy) before breakfast on off days. [/quote]

i used the search function. i got the word 'damage control" from some t-cell thread.
i have school, football, rifling, and lacrosse practice so the only damage control i could do is dietary.[/quote]

Generally speaking, diet is more important for fat loss anyway.

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[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

my question is, if i ever get too fat for my liking during the bulk, how do i do damage control?(quick loss of fat without sabotaging the bulk)?
thanks in advance![/quote]

Dude, I don’t mean to sarcastic here. However, I ask: What do you think?!

You subtract calories from your diet for some time until you’re at a place you want to be in. Isn’t that pretty simple? (Again, not being sarcastic or derogatory.)

You can do a “mini-diet” of sorts. It’s what Shelby Starnes does with his clients. Some people have done a two week stint of a protein sparing modified fast and then get back to what they initially were doing.

This is not complicated. [/quote]

yeah, i kinda knew what to do, but i didn’t know if it would “sabotage” the bulk or not.
thanks for the quick answer!

135

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

my question is, if i ever get too fat for my liking during the bulk, how do i do damage control?(quick loss of fat without sabotaging the bulk)?
thanks in advance![/quote]

Dude, I don’t mean to sarcastic here. However, I ask: What do you think?!

You subtract calories from your diet for some time until you’re at a place you want to be in. Isn’t that pretty simple? (Again, not being sarcastic or derogatory.)

You can do a “mini-diet” of sorts. It’s what Shelby Starnes does with his clients. Some people have done a two week stint of a protein sparing modified fast and then get back to what they initially were doing.

This is not complicated. [/quote]

yeah, i kinda knew what to do, but i didn’t know if it would “sabotage” the bulk or not.
thanks for the quick answer![/quote]

Dude, it’s not like you can gain so much muscle in such a short amount of time anyway, nor are your muscles going to whither away in a few weeks just because you went on some mini-diet provided you keep training as you always do.

Over-bulking sabotages things as much as over-dieting.

136

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In the end, you need to find what works for you. [/quote]

QFT

It all boils down to that. Have to admit it is nice when you finally know what works best for yourself.

137

Ate a few burgers tonight so good. Love BBQ sauce too, add some tobasco and I can eat that shit plain.

138

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Some of you majored in Taking Things out of Context.

Yes, calorie-wise, you could argue that eating clean vs. dirty shouldn’t matter for physique goals, but can you argue that they’re the same with respect to long-term health effects?

Come on.[/quote]

x 593827239812900912

what’s the point of being muscular if you’re going to be suffering from bad health 10 years down the road

139

1 Cup Soy
5 Cloves Garlic
A few mixed veggies chopped (onion, carrots, celery)
Some orange marmalaid
Some fresh ginger
3 pounds diced chicken breasts.

Blend all that up, cook chicken, add marinade, cover, cook for 20 more minutes and throw over some brown rice…Yummmm…It’s 1 am, that’s my last meal and probably half my food for tomorrow.

140

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
1 Cup Soy
5 Cloves Garlic
A few mixed veggies chopped (onion, carrots, celery)
Some orange marmalaid
Some fresh ginger
3 pounds diced chicken breasts.

Blend all that up, cook chicken, add marinade, cover, cook for 20 more minutes and throw over some brown rice…Yummmm…It’s 1 am, that’s my last meal and probably half my food for tomorrow.[/quote]

damn that doesnt sound not good.