Brotherhood of Iron Redux

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]jo3 wrote:
crod266 wrote:
i have a question for you guys, how important do you guys think casein protein is? I mean if i had tuna which i do is it really that big of a deal?

I don’t quite understand your question. Casein isolate/concentrate (think Metabolic Drive) is good because casein digests more slowly. This is beneficial if you have it right before going to bed (so your body has nutrition throughout your sleep) or if you’re dieting and need something to keep you fuller for a longer period of time (think V-Diet). However, casein hydrosylate (Anaconda, PeptoPro) is supposedly the fastest-absorbing protein out there, so it’s good if you need a quick protein fix (think CT’s amino pulsing protocol).

In the end, I honestly don’t think protein type really matters unless you’re already pretty big and are not getting anywhere with your current eating habits. But I guess we’ll see once I, Bodybuilder comes out.[/quote]

haha i shud of been more clear, i know casein is good before bed haha im asking is it really a big deal if you just have a solid protein source from real food like tuna.I know it digests slowly but is it really that much slower than food?

42

I think Scot replied once in BBB thread, saying his girlfriend thought his arms were more muscled or something lol.

43

[quote]xb-C wrote:
Couple questions:

Do you think doing 531 for front squat would be bad?[/quote] Not bad, no. You might end up like me though and run into trouble with progression… I couldn’t go all-out for 8+ reps because the bar was starting to choke me and distract me… Thus I’d personally go for cluster sets of somewhat less reps. [quote] It’s either that or doing the cluster sets you described.

If I did bench or incline bench on chest day using 531, would doing CGB on arms day be again too much? [/quote] It worked fine for me… But you could also just ramp up. [quote] Or would you just ramp up to something like 60-70% of my 1rm[/quote] Forget about that percent of 1RM stuff for your assistance work. CGP can be stronger than traditional bench (it certainly is in my case)… .You just try to stay in a rep range maybe… 6-12, 8-15, whatever… Or the 2 sets thing I mentioned in that other post of mine… (6-8, then 5-7 with a little more weight on… For example)… I had howie do that I think, sure seemed to work well for him, but I haven’t had any contact with him in ages since my pm’s are dead… [quote] and rep it out?

Overall I think the way you have 531 set up is pretty solid. I’ll take the rest of the week off, I’ve got plans to squat next monday so I will do that and take it easy the rest of that week and hopefully start 531. Thanks a lot C_C[/quote]

No problem. I dunno though… I think we could still fix you up with that yates routine… We’ll see.

44

[quote]xb-C wrote:
I understand what you’re talking about. I was having a little trouble figuring out how I would set up 531 on the split you posted for it earlier. I like the idea of the yates 3 way with alternating heavy and light days or whatever. It sure beats going heavy ALL the time and feeling like shit afterwards.
[/quote] Yeah, give me half an hour and I’ll write it out for you… Gotta get that bowl of rice down first… Bah, bland shit, I ran out of my favorite spice/salt combo.
Blast. That’s what you get for allowing your woman access to the kitchen. (this is me being angry, not emo, btw. So nobody comment on it.) [quote]
And what do you mean by AMRAP?
[/quote] As Many Reps As Possible

45

Ok, xb-C, I guess you could do it sort of like this (no 5/3/1 here, could still be incorporated though, but it’s not necessary I’d say):

Here is for normal frequency and one top-set per exercise (day 1 on, day 2 on, day 3 off, day 4 on, day 5 off, repeat),

Chest, Bis, Tris
-Low-Incline Press BB DB Machine
-Flat Press (or the other way around)

-Alt. DB or some such
-Pinwheels (or the other way around)

-Board Presses, IH Presses, SWRGB… That kind of thing.
-Bent-over Extensions with rope handle (Justin Harris/scott style), Dead Skulls/extensions, PJR’s… Whatever

Legs
-Calves
-Hams
-Quads
or the other way around.
-abs?

Delts, Back
-Overhead press of any kind
-Laterals or machine laterals. If doing laterals, might want to use skip laterals or similar. Keep weight close-ish to the body, mix of upright row and lateral raise. Makes it sort of a compound exercise, allows for more weight. You initiate as a lateral with db’s on thighs but largely focus on elbows and pull shoulders back/retract shoulder blades as you come up, and also pull elbows back to some degree… Ah, hard to describe.

-Backwidth
-Backthickness
or the other way around.

Okay, this is rotation A, 6-10 reps per top-set or so… If you want to do 2 top sets instead (8-12, 5-8, or so, depends on exercise…), might want to reduce amount of chest exercises by 1.

Rotation B would be just one exercise per bodypart and do it for high reps, 12-20 or so, with one top-set.

Example:

Chest, Bis, Tris
-HS Presses (towel trick or plates under lever arms or whatever) 12-20

-Machine Curls 12-20, or Pinwheels, or EZ/BB…

-PJR’s or IH or Board presses…

Legs (ok, legs are just one exercise per bodypart anyway, no real change, just do 12-20 reps)

-Quads
-Hams
-Calves
or other way around
-abs

Delts, Back
-Skip laterals or standing DB overhead presses (not starting like arnold presses, just like a seated db press but standing, I’m starting to like those) or machine presses 12-20

-Kroc rows for back… 12-25… Like a real kroc set, hard and heavy with some pauses perhaps and straps… This helps balance out pressing and back work.

-Could do some pullover machine or pulldowns for 12-20 still if you wanted here… .Your call

Okay… What do you think?

How many exercises you do per bodypart on A rotation days depends on your overall frequency…

With standard frequency (2 off days per cycle) you could do 2, but if you go 3 on, 1 off or so, or you want to do multiple work sets or whatever, you might have to cut some stuff out.

Just some ideas, mainly.

46

Alright C_C thanks a bunch of writing all that out I appreciate it. I read through it two times just so I understand everything. Would rack lockouts be an ok tricep exercise, they are similar to board presses, figured I would ask anyways to make sure.

Also when would you suggest I do deadlifting, I’d like to get my deadlift up to 405 or so for reps, is there room in the yates 3 way for me to do this?

47

[quote]crod266 wrote:
i have a question for you guys, how important do you guys think casein protein is? I mean if i had tuna which i do is it really that big of a deal?[/quote]

I don’t think it matters at all in the scheme of things if you are eating enough throughout the day that there is always food in the system.

48

[quote]xb-C wrote:
Alright C_C thanks a bunch of writing all that out I appreciate it. I read through it two times just so I understand everything. Would rack lockouts be an ok tricep exercise, they are similar to board presses, figured I would ask anyways to make sure. [/quote] You mean those partial overhead presses? Meh, too much pressure on the shoulders with the right weight imo… I’d go with pressing from the pins on a flat bench, just like board presses, sort of. Enough ROM to hit the tris well without having to go all the way to lockout, but short enough ROM to avoid the bottom part of the lift/sticking point. [quote]

Also when would you suggest I do deadlifting, I’d like to get my deadlift up to 405 or so for reps, is there room in the yates 3 way for me to do this?[/quote]

If you do front squats on leg day, you should be able to do conventional deadlifts on delt/back day as your last exercise (backthickness) on A workouts.

If you pull sumo and not conventional, you might want to do them as your hamstring exercise on Leg day A though after front-squats (or do leg extensions there as quad exercise for 12-25, making sure not to bend your knees too much… 90 degrees or so is fine on leg extensions… Then you do front squats heavy on B days and pair it up with 12-25 reps on the leg curl or so… That would mean mixing your heavy/light leg days sort of, but it allows for full intensity on both sumo pulls and front squats… Your call)

49

cc, if i have a question for you should i just leave it here since u cant pm lol

50

[quote]crod266 wrote:
cc, if i have a question for you should i just leave it here since u cant pm lol[/quote]

you could leave it in my training thread instead, if you want.

51

To get this thread in the right direction, how about everyone post their present routine?

I am doing DC (go to IM and read the stickies for an explanation or see the DC threads here at T-Nation)

A1
Decline bench (11-15RP)
HS front shoulder press (11-20RP)
Reverse grip bench press in the smith (11-20RP)
Wide arc lat pulldown (11-20RP)
Rack pulls below the knee (4-8 SS, 9-12SS)

B1
Alt DB curls (11-20RP)
EZ Hammer Curls (11-20SS)
Calf extensions (12 DC style)
Seated leg curls (15-30RP)
Leg press (4-8 SS, Widowmaker)

A2
Incline bench (11-15RP)
DB shoulder press (11-20RP)
Dead skulls (11-20RP)
Rack chins (11-20RP)
Kroc Rows (4-8 SS, 15-20SS)

B2
EZ Bar curls (11-20RP)
Reverse cable curls (11-20SS)
HS Calf extensions (12 DC style)
Standing single-legged leg curls (15-30RP)
HS Leg press (4-8 SS, Widowmaker)

A3
HS flat bench (11-15RP)
SHIPs (11-20RP)
close grip bench press in the smith (11-20RP)
close grip pulldown (11-20RP)
T-bar rows (4-8 SS, 9-12SS)

B3
HS curls (11-20RP)
Alt DB Hammer Curls (11-20SS)
HS seated calf raises (12 DC style)
Lying leg curls (15-30RP)
Front squats in the smith (4-8 SS, Widowmaker)

Six weeks in and loving it!

52

Deadlift-
135 x 10
185 x 5
225 x 5
265 x 5
305 x 5
345 x 9

Yates Row-
225 x 8 x4

Pullup-
bw x 8 x3

Incline DB Curl-
30 x 10 x3

One-armed Machine Preacher Curl-
55 x 15 x2

53

Skipped training today. Body was telling me to. I wanna heal up to close to 100% before gettin back in there. Tomorrow’s workout is pretty vigorous, so I’m gonna pound down the food and hopefully I’ll be ready to go.

My weight hasn’t really dropped by more than a pound or so, which is good. Of course, I feel soft, fat, small, etc, but that’s normal.

A question regarding food to you guys: I’m getting tired as fuck of how I’m preparing my food. Chicken breasts are fine the way I’ve been doing them, but I’m eating a lot of ground beef now, and drenching it in marinara sauce is just getting old. Anyone have any good suggestions for how to prepare it?

The head trainer at the gym my gf lifts at is competing in a show this Saturday, so I’ll be attending the night show with her. I went to this show last year – was fucking bad ass! It’s amazing how small you feel at a bodybuilding show.

Glad to see this thread is movin in the right direction. Might as well call it the Brotherhood of Xb-C ;). Kidding.

54

Bug - I do taco seasoning. And I have ground beef at least 3x a day…lol

55

xb-c, my two cents,

All the stuff CC is recommending is great, but I think before you move into another high volume routine, you need to give your body a rest. 5/3/1 set up would be perfect, and I’m talking 5/3/1 without a huge amount of accessory. Just maybe a month or two, drive up your main lifts, then continue with the high volume stuff. I really think you could benefit from just eating huge(er), and trying to get strong as balls(er).

I’m not saying the high volume thing sucks, clearly it’s working wonders for Bug and yourself, but you might need to tone it down for a while just so you can give your joints and crap a break. I’m the same age as you, and I don’t need to ice crap after any workouts (ok well maybe once a month).

In short, I don’t really think the training matters, as long as you give it all you have and have faith in the program, and EAT TO GAIN SIZE YOU LANKY MOFO (no relation to the real lank mofo). But if I were you, I’d give high volume a break for now and just try a simpler, lower volume approach. It will give your body a break, and who knows, you might even do better on it.

As my for current plan: Just straightup 5/3/1

monday:
5/3/1 military
HS shoulder press - working up sets of 5
leaning lateral raise - rep out 20-30lbs
PJRs working up to sets of 12
straight bar press downs done rest paused

tuesday:
5/3/1 d-d-d-d-deadlifts
strapless kroc rows, 3-5 sets of 10
straight arm pulls down - whatever to progress
horizontal row - whatever to progress
misc. abz, rear delt, lower back

thursday:
5/3/1 bench
DB incline - rest pause or just working up to sets of 8 (might switch out soon)
pec dec - working up to sets of 12-15
spider curls - rest paused
pinwheels - one all out set

friday:
5/3/1 squizats
front squats - whatever i feel like
good mornings - whatever i want
maybe some leg curl/ext.

Thats my shit right now, the days dont always land like that, but I like to go 2 on, 1 off, 2 on, 2 off sorta deal if I can to keep it in a week. I’m trying to keep it simple

56

Josh, how do you cook it? I find sometimes it just gets too dry… and if it’s too fatty (because, say, it was on sale), then the smell of the lard makes me nauseous. Haha, thanks brotha

57

@ stuntman mike, ya a break is in order for me. I’ll be taking the rest of this week off, I’ll squat monday cause I’ve made plans to, but then take that week off and see how things are come the 2nd wek of august.

I think one good thing that can be taken from my training, is that I’ve gone in, even when I was feeling beat up and shit and just about 99% of the time come out with a PR so if I can get this good of results going 2x a week, backing it down to only once a week might just be what I need to start gaining sum more weight again. I’m sure the week and a half I take off will help too, gonna need to get my bib out

58

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Skipped training today. Body was telling me to. I wanna heal up to close to 100% before gettin back in there. Tomorrow’s workout is pretty vigorous, so I’m gonna pound down the food and hopefully I’ll be ready to go.

My weight hasn’t really dropped by more than a pound or so, which is good. Of course, I feel soft, fat, small, etc, but that’s normal.

A question regarding food to you guys: I’m getting tired as fuck of how I’m preparing my food. Chicken breasts are fine the way I’ve been doing them, but I’m eating a lot of ground beef now, and drenching it in marinara sauce is just getting old. Anyone have any good suggestions for how to prepare it?

The head trainer at the gym my gf lifts at is competing in a show this Saturday, so I’ll be attending the night show with her. I went to this show last year – was fucking bad ass! It’s amazing how small you feel at a bodybuilding show.

Glad to see this thread is movin in the right direction. Might as well call it the Brotherhood of Xb-C ;). Kidding.[/quote]

I personally think my ground beef recipe is awesome, tasty and simple but that’s just me. I just cook the ground beef, put it in a big bowl, throw in a couple handfuls of spinach leaves and then pour a good bit of mild picante sauce over it and mix it all up. I never get tired of that.

59

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Josh, how do you cook it? I find sometimes it just gets too dry… and if it’s too fatty (because, say, it was on sale), then the smell of the lard makes me nauseous. Haha, thanks brotha[/quote]

taco sauce again is the shit dude it makes it taste so good or if u wanted to u cud always add rice or pasta. or if its high in fat like if u get 80 cause its on sale you could always drain it, that way its not to bad and u get the sale haha

60

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Josh, how do you cook it? I find sometimes it just gets too dry… and if it’s too fatty (because, say, it was on sale), then the smell of the lard makes me nauseous. Haha, thanks brotha[/quote]

Cook it in crumbles in a pan… when browned toss it in a pasta strainer and run very hot water all over till it runs clear. Fat content is reduced immensely, I’ve seen 50-66%.

Return to pan(rinse the pan as well) and add seasoning of your choice.