So this should not have been posted in the bodybuilding forum. It should have been in the powerlifting forum where it would have been over a long time ago. No, if it doesn’t touch your chest it’s not an official bench press. It also has to pause to be official. Now were talking about the muscle building aspects and range of motion which has nothing to do with the op. Do what works for you and if some guy is bragging about his quarter rep bench, he’s a fucking fag.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t use full rom for chest presses. Am I reading right that some of you actually think this is wrong now?[/quote]
If the argument was about who is doing a legal lift by powerlifting standards, which is what the OP is implying, yea, you’d be wrong.
In a bodybuilding context there is no such thing as ‘right or wrong’ when it comes to ROM, obviously.
this thread sucks. can it be moved to PWI or something?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t use full rom for chest presses. Am I reading right that some of you actually think this is wrong now?[/quote]
If the argument was about who is doing a legal lift by powerlifting standards, which is what the OP is implying, yea, you’d be wrong.
In a bodybuilding context there is no such thing as ‘right or wrong’ when it comes to ROM, obviously. [/quote]
Then why isn’t this thread in powerlifting?
I mean, honestly, how many “bodybuilding” threads are accidentally popping up over there or in combat sports?
Any?
Is this forum just more popular?
Further, that would mean all of these other people are powerlifters…who all just logged in here to make sure ALL LIFTERS use a full rom by powerlifting standards?
???
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Then why isn’t this thread in powerlifting?
Is this forum just more popular?
[/quote]
cause the OP posted it here by mistake
yes I think so… and its the first one that pops up in the drop down forum list
.greg.
[quote]CPerfringens wrote:
Maybe, but then there are fat asses like Dave Tate that have a 6" ROM anyway, while normal people have over 2 feet, so it blurs the line of what’s acceptable and what’s not to me.
[/quote]
Yup, a real fat ass that Dave Tate:
@ 2:15 in the video if the link didn’t work.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t use full rom for chest presses. Am I reading right that some of you actually think this is wrong now?[/quote]
If the argument was about who is doing a legal lift by powerlifting standards, which is what the OP is implying, yea, you’d be wrong.
In a bodybuilding context there is no such thing as ‘right or wrong’ when it comes to ROM, obviously. [/quote]
Then why isn’t this thread in powerlifting?
I mean, honestly, how many “bodybuilding” threads are accidentally popping up over there or in combat sports?
Any?
Is this forum just more popular?
Further, that would mean all of these other people are powerlifters…who all just logged in here to make sure ALL LIFTERS use a full rom by powerlifting standards?
???[/quote]
What do you mean. Are you saying that the 54 year old woman doing static holds with the lat pulldown set to 20lbs isnt bodybuilding??? Psht you crazee
I understand the partial-rep thing. Really. I use them myself. But the question was whether you can claim a partial-rep press as a legitimate max. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a 1RM or a 12RM, if it doesn’t touch then it doesn’t count.
I don’t think it really matters what forum this thread is in, either. Martial artist, powerlifter, bodybuilder, football player, whatever. A bench press is a bench press.
If you are ‘benching’ using a HS machine and not using full-ROM, that’s not a bench press. I guess you’d call it a chest press (as PX did), since it’s a press purposely designed to build your chest.
I agree Jay^
How did some of you read this thread and assume it was about the supposed ineffectiveness of a short ROM? This is about comparing lifts. Even if it was comparing a 10 rep max (bodybuilding?), should the relative ROM not be the same?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is retarded. You can also look at the same fucking people and tell who has big chest muscles and who doesn’t. We aren’t talking about some fucking clueless newb here.
if the guy is 250+lbs with arms as big as your legs, shut the fuck up about his form.
Further, why the hell is anyone in a bodybuilding forum bragging about a ONE REP MAX???
I use HS machines for most of my chest training. I also have stated many times the weight I use FOR REPS (which usually means the weight I use for my last set up to 8 times or more…NOT ONCE).
Most of you this concerned about form ARE NOT BIG AT ALL so why does your opinion matter so much?[/quote]
First of all I can’t even begin to understand why the hell you are so pissed on every post you respond. Secondly, I never said bragging about 1RM on bodyubuilding is good, I just got into the conversation about bench press rom. And yes, again 9/10 times I see someone not touching his chest on bench he has a damn small chest. Whatever, let people do shit, it’s their progress who gets jacked.
Whether the bench press is for bodybuilding or powerlifting, no-one can brag that they’re lifting more than someone else when they’re hardly even moving the bar much.
The same applies for squats, sure, you can do partial squats for bodybuilding, but don’t brag about what you’re “lifting” (unless you state that it’s partial ROM)…in fact, just don’t brag in the first place.
If the trainee is lifting huge loads using limited ROM, that is still very impressive (think Ronnie Coleman)…but come on, everyone knows that the person who’s most likely to brag about what they lift are young ones who managed to get the bar to move 3 inches probably with the help of 2 friends…and then they’ll proceed to log online and “poo poo” someone else’s lifts who actually built up to a respectable level over the years and has the body to prove it.
These one’s are more likely to feel a smug sense of superiority for the sake of lifting some weight without moving it far and without any proper control/tension/dominance of the weight or anything…
The OP wrote-
Does bringing the bar down until your arms are 90 degrees, without touching the chest, deserve bragging rights as your 1 rep bench max?
I am taking it upon myself to create some Gym Rules to help clear up issues like this.
Rule #1- If someone asks- “How much ya bench hoss??” The person being asked must assume they are talking about a full ROM bench brought down to the chest and taken to full lockout without a spotter touching it. This rule also applies to squat as well-squat to at least parallel without a spotter wrapped around you. Also, these lifts are also to be assumed to be free weighted, not smith or hammmerzzz strength.
Feel free to add to the list of Gym Rules. Although adoption of said rule must be approved by me to become law. I feel qualified for such an endeavor considering I have been both a bodybuilder and powerlifter and am not biased either way.
[quote]desolator wrote:
And yes, again 9/10 times I see someone not touching his chest on bench he has a damn small chest.
[/quote]
9/10 people at the gym make zero progress anyway, so who gives a shit what they do? You are looking at teh world from the complete opposite point of view than the person you are talking to.
Outside of those lucky enough to train around serious people, some people on this board need to stop using their gym as the gospel and open their minds in general, and no, that doesn’t mean read a few books and consider yourself an expert either.
Bragging in general is fucking stupid. Asking someone what their bench is, comparing lifts, being excited about a PR and posting a video, or even using your numbers to defend yourself against e-bullshit? Fine, but bragging makes you a doucher.
I will also go out on a limb and state that most people busting balls about ROM and lbs lifted in a bodybuilding context are probably pretty small. (Again without being provoked to do so by the conversation.) And in that same vein, someone rambling on about the size of their chest and arms in a powerlifting context, probably has a shit total, or at least one that can’t back up their mouth.
Here is a solution: Get your bench numbers high enough where simply unracking the fucking thing is impressive, and everyone can promptly kiss your ass. How’s that?
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
The OP wrote-
Does bringing the bar down until your arms are 90 degrees, without touching the chest, deserve bragging rights as your 1 rep bench max?
I am taking it upon myself to create some Gym Rules to help clear up issues like this.
Rule #1- If someone asks- “How much ya bench hoss??” The person being asked must assume they are talking about a full ROM bench brought down to the chest and taken to full lockout without a spotter touching it. This rule also applies to squat as well-squat to at least parallel without a spotter wrapped around you. Also, these lifts are also to be assumed to be free weighted, not smith or hammmerzzz strength.
Feel free to add to the list of Gym Rules. Although adoption of said rule must be approved by me to become law. I feel qualified for such an endeavor considering I have been both a bodybuilder and powerlifter and am not biased either way.
[/quote]
Rule 2: Anyone under 5’10" pulling sumo is a dirty dirty cheaterface. 
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
The OP wrote-
Does bringing the bar down until your arms are 90 degrees, without touching the chest, deserve bragging rights as your 1 rep bench max?
I am taking it upon myself to create some Gym Rules to help clear up issues like this.
Rule #1- If someone asks- “How much ya bench hoss??” The person being asked must assume they are talking about a full ROM bench brought down to the chest and taken to full lockout without a spotter touching it. This rule also applies to squat as well-squat to at least parallel without a spotter wrapped around you. Also, these lifts are also to be assumed to be free weighted, not smith or hammmerzzz strength.
Feel free to add to the list of Gym Rules. Although adoption of said rule must be approved by me to become law. I feel qualified for such an endeavor considering I have been both a bodybuilder and powerlifter and am not biased either way.
[/quote]
Rule 2: Anyone under 5’10" pulling sumo is a dirty dirty cheaterface. ;)[/quote]
Being 5’8" myself, i’m not even going to send that application onto myself for a vote.
verdict- denied.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
The OP wrote-
Does bringing the bar down until your arms are 90 degrees, without touching the chest, deserve bragging rights as your 1 rep bench max?
I am taking it upon myself to create some Gym Rules to help clear up issues like this.
Rule #1- If someone asks- “How much ya bench hoss??” The person being asked must assume they are talking about a full ROM bench brought down to the chest and taken to full lockout without a spotter touching it. This rule also applies to squat as well-squat to at least parallel without a spotter wrapped around you. Also, these lifts are also to be assumed to be free weighted, not smith or hammmerzzz strength.
Feel free to add to the list of Gym Rules. Although adoption of said rule must be approved by me to become law. I feel qualified for such an endeavor considering I have been both a bodybuilder and powerlifter and am not biased either way.
[/quote]
Rule 2: Anyone under 5’10" pulling sumo is a dirty dirty cheaterface. ;)[/quote]
Being 5’8" myself, i’m not even going to send that application onto myself for a vote.
verdict- denied.
[/quote]
LOL, you know who should pull sumo? King Beef. dude has like 6’ long arms. He would move the bar a total of 5" and pwn da iron.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
The OP wrote-
Does bringing the bar down until your arms are 90 degrees, without touching the chest, deserve bragging rights as your 1 rep bench max?
I am taking it upon myself to create some Gym Rules to help clear up issues like this.
Rule #1- If someone asks- “How much ya bench hoss??” The person being asked must assume they are talking about a full ROM bench brought down to the chest and taken to full lockout without a spotter touching it. This rule also applies to squat as well-squat to at least parallel without a spotter wrapped around you. Also, these lifts are also to be assumed to be free weighted, not smith or hammmerzzz strength.
Feel free to add to the list of Gym Rules. Although adoption of said rule must be approved by me to become law. I feel qualified for such an endeavor considering I have been both a bodybuilder and powerlifter and am not biased either way.
[/quote]
I dont think its too plausible to hold bodybuilders to a powerlifter’s standards. Cant really declare 1 movement as “This and only this” while both bodybuilders and powerlifters do that same movement differently.
And if it will also please the court, id like to move that ‘a Max lift CAN be declared for HS or smith if said machine was included in one’s declaration,’ IE “My max is 5 plates on each side for a HS incline bench.”
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
The OP wrote-
Does bringing the bar down until your arms are 90 degrees, without touching the chest, deserve bragging rights as your 1 rep bench max?
I am taking it upon myself to create some Gym Rules to help clear up issues like this.
Rule #1- If someone asks- “How much ya bench hoss??” The person being asked must assume they are talking about a full ROM bench brought down to the chest and taken to full lockout without a spotter touching it. This rule also applies to squat as well-squat to at least parallel without a spotter wrapped around you. Also, these lifts are also to be assumed to be free weighted, not smith or hammmerzzz strength.
Feel free to add to the list of Gym Rules. Although adoption of said rule must be approved by me to become law. I feel qualified for such an endeavor considering I have been both a bodybuilder and powerlifter and am not biased either way.
[/quote]
So if you are a taller lifter do you get to include a multiplier to your weight? Consider that at 6’3 in order to complete a full range of motion (ie touch the tits) I have to move the bar a full 3 feet where the avg joe is probably only doing 2 feet. Since my overall workload is higher what’s my multiplier?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]desolator wrote:
And yes, again 9/10 times I see someone not touching his chest on bench he has a damn small chest.
[/quote]
9/10 people at the gym make zero progress anyway, so who gives a shit what they do? You are looking at teh world from the complete opposite point of view than the person you are talking to.
Outside of those lucky enough to train around serious people, some people on this board need to stop using their gym as the gospel and open their minds in general, and no, that doesn’t mean read a few books and consider yourself an expert either.
Bragging in general is fucking stupid. Asking someone what their bench is, comparing lifts, being excited about a PR and posting a video, or even using your numbers to defend yourself against e-bullshit? Fine, but bragging makes you a doucher.
I will also go out on a limb and state that most people busting balls about ROM and lbs lifted in a bodybuilding context are probably pretty small. (Again without being provoked to do so by the conversation.) And in that same vein, someone rambling on about the size of their chest and arms in a powerlifting context, probably has a shit total, or at least one that can’t back up their mouth.
Here is a solution: Get your bench numbers high enough where simply unracking the fucking thing is impressive, and everyone can promptly kiss your ass. How’s that?[/quote]
Great post. The lack of pictures of all of these people isn’t surprising, but the desire they seem to have to ACT like they are making more progress than anyone else is fucking strange.
I really don’t think most of them have even seen someone really big up close since most seem to respond as if guys who would go unnoticed in most gyms are the biggest people they ever see.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
The OP wrote-
Does bringing the bar down until your arms are 90 degrees, without touching the chest, deserve bragging rights as your 1 rep bench max?
I am taking it upon myself to create some Gym Rules to help clear up issues like this.
Rule #1- If someone asks- “How much ya bench hoss??” The person being asked must assume they are talking about a full ROM bench brought down to the chest and taken to full lockout without a spotter touching it. This rule also applies to squat as well-squat to at least parallel without a spotter wrapped around you. Also, these lifts are also to be assumed to be free weighted, not smith or hammmerzzz strength.
Feel free to add to the list of Gym Rules. Although adoption of said rule must be approved by me to become law. I feel qualified for such an endeavor considering I have been both a bodybuilder and powerlifter and am not biased either way.
[/quote]
I dont think its too plausible to hold bodybuilders to a powerlifter’s standards. Cant really declare 1 movement as “This and only this” while both bodybuilders and powerlifters do that same movement differently.
And if it will also please the court, id like to move that ‘a Max lift CAN be declared for HS or smith if said machine was included in one’s declaration,’ IE “My max is 5 plates on each side for a HS incline bench.” [/quote]
i think you are reading too much into this. i’m not talking bodybuilding or powerlifting. If that were the case i could throw in a whole list of rules that i have to follow for a bench to be really considered a bench attempt. I could have easily said that your feet can’t move, you can’t press until the bar is motionless on your chest, you can’t let it dip before pressing…etc. IMO, when someone asks how much a person benches, the vast majority of people assume that the movement will be full ROM. i have nothing against partial ROM movements. I use them pretty much everytime i train. I’ll go even further to say that I would never have gotten to my present level of strength without doing partials. But with that said, when someone asks what i bench i tell them what i can touch and go bench because that’s what people think of when they are asking.
I think some people are getting their panties in a wad because they feel like this is personal or that one way is better than another. Everything works. But we all know when some person asks us how much ya bench, they aren’t asking what someone benches on some machine or how much they can bench with half ROM or How much they can bench to a board or whatever. I would bet that I do more bench variations than anyone on this forum. If i wanted to I could say that i bench 675lbs because I’ve done that to a four board. But we know that would be absurd when in reality the question was really how much i could bench for a full ROM.
So if as a bodybuilder one is asked how much they bench, then the answer should be either this is how much i bench to my chest or I don’t do full ROM benches for a 1 rep max. It’s that simple.
As for your request to have Hammerzz strength machines made an option for being an alternative to the “waddya bench?” , I’ll have to decline your application. Everyone knows that if you are truely strong, there’s no way you could get enough weight on a hammmerzz strength machine to actually test a 1 RM:) good try though.