Boxing Efficiancy

Training
61

The guy who can squat 600lbs is the one who won’t be getting close enough to me for that to be a deciding factor. The guy who backs up from the one who squats 600lbs needs to learn to use angles, and develop his skills to allow him to neutralise the advantages another fighter has over him.

Strength training has its place at the highest levels, but you can walk into amateur gyms all across the country and watch big strong guys get the living piss beaten out of them by weaker, more skillful fighters. I bet anyone who has ever boxed has had the experience where someone smaller, weaker, and probably half their age has beaten 8 shades of shit out of them.

62

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
you can walk into amateur gyms all across the country and watch big strong guys get the living piss beaten out of them by weaker, more skillful fighters.[/quote]

I always find it funny that people tend to think 400-600lbs squatters are big fat, slow and sluggish. And for one or other reason I always tend to have less skill according to people posting on forums.

Don’t twist reality to make your argument fit. First of all, the guy I was referring to was a little Indonesian guy training here at Amsterdam. Strength =/= size.

Secondly, you twisted your argument in such a way that you made one less to no skilled, and the other highly skilled.
Of course the highly skilled person is going to win. But try putting two equally experienced and skilled fighers against each other, one is 260 pounds and squats 600 pounds, the other fighter is 150 pound fighter that squats 150 pounds. I would watch that fight - out of pure sadistical motives. If you twist things to back your argument u

Also, I don’t get what you mean that strength training is required in the higher regions. On the contrary, strength training is most useful in an amateur fight. Anybody that had amateur fights knows why: it generaly lacks power in the lower regions and is mainly point based. Therefor anybody with a big strength capability would come like a “shock” in an amateur fight.

If you would fight as a 200lbs amateur (squatting 400 pounds) against another 200lbs amateur (squatting 150 pounds) you must be very skill-less not to dominate that fight. People mainly at forums (referring to 19 century knowledge) underestimate physical strength in boxing imo.

63

[quote]Kardash wrote:

In the boxing gym you can automaticly see which guy is the one able to squat 600lbs. It’s generaly the guy of who ppl back up from when sparring.

[/quote]

This is the biggest fucking piece of bullshit I have EVER seen on this forum. Ever. Ever. Ever.

Any good boxer doesn’t give two shits what you squat, and the bigger the guy, the crappier he is at sparring. I have seen this so many times I couldn’t even tell you.

This is another thing that makes me scratch my head.

After I’m done training, I can’t move. I just did 15 rounds and blew myself out, and now you want me to squat and deadlift? And then do another 15 rounds tomorrow?

It’s unrealistic. Totally unrealistic. Especially when considering most boxers have full time jobs because nearly everyone, except those at the very top, MUST WORK and can’t train all day.

64

Kardash,

FightinIrish’s statement was a generalization, and applied to the sport of boxing. I did not take it to mean combat sports in general.

[quote]Kardash wrote:
God, no offence- but I can’t believe some guys still defend the ‘strength training is bad’ argument. That is so outdated. Strength training won’t per se make you a better fighter - but it will give you an advantage over a weaker person in boxing. [/quote]
No one in this thread is stating “strength training is bad”. It is about reaching the point that effort spent on getting stronger should be spent on getting BETTER at boxing. I have never met a successful fighter who was “weak” by normal standards. Maybe by internet standards, but they are all pretty strong compared to the other folks at the grocery store.

To my knowledge I have never seen someone capable of a legit, RAW 600 pound squat compete in a pro boxing match.

Qualifiers:
They need to be able to hit 600 pounds in the week surrounding the fight date(original number was 500, but you added 100 pounds).

They need to have energy in the 4th round of the fight.

It needs to be a boxing match, not K-1/Muay Thai/MMA.

[quote]
However, your strength training must be embedded into your boxing training: lift weights only AFTER boxing training (or on the day after). This is to prevent the soreness from strength training kicking your butt at boxing training.

Stick to compound movements (Mainly deadlifts and squats, cleans if you know how to properly i.e. movements that force the hips+legs to do a lot of stregnth work).

Keep the reps low as possible, I’d say max. 3 reps on working sets. Remember, when incorporating strength training into boxing training your goal is to fatigue the muscles as less as possible - your CNS must do the main work. Unless you want to mass up a weight class, but that shouldn’t be your goal atm.

Good luck![/quote]

What is your point of reference for giving this advice? Do you train/coach at a boxing gym where the majority of active fighters have triple bodyweight squat numbers? I thought 500 was fairly beyond the pale since the majority of fighters I see get in the ring under 170 and a 500 pound squat at that weight is a serious accomplishment. Adding another 100 pounds means even the light heavies are over triple bodyweight. That is an elite strength level. Polymath’s exist, but they are rare.

Regards,

Robert A

65

[quote]Kardash wrote:
I always find it funny that people tend to think 400-600lbs squatters are big fat, slow and sluggish. And for one or other reason I always tend to have less skill according to people posting on forums.
[/quote]

Well most of the time they are. They sure as hell ain’t fast, and they sure as hell don’t run five miles every morning.

Maybe some do. Most don’t.

That’s why they have weight classes. But that has nothing to do with the weight they can or can’t squat, it’s just the sheer mass of the person and the reach advantage they’d have. Squats don’t figure into this conversation.

You’re operating under the WRONG assumption that strength equals punching power, which it does not. This whole thing is faulty.

I think you’re trolling us.

66

[quote]Kardash wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
you can walk into amateur gyms all across the country and watch big strong guys get the living piss beaten out of them by weaker, more skillful fighters.[/quote]

I always find it funny that people tend to think 400-600lbs squatters are big fat, slow and sluggish. And for one or other reason I always tend to have less skill according to people posting on forums.
[/quote]
Squatting 500-600 pounds at a bodyweight that people would be competitive at in the boxing ring is a serious accomplishment. For a variety of reasons it is better to come in tall for the weightclass in boxing. For a given fighter to be lean/tall enough for boxing AND to be capable of hitting a 500-600 pound squat is going to be pretty rare. That is going to be a 2.5-3X bodyweight squat for anyone but a heavyweight. Heavyweights are rare as it is.

I don’t know about your individual skill level so I cannot comment on that.

“Little” to me, with regards to boxing, would be welterweight and below. Are you claiming that a 147 pound fighter is hitting a legit 600 pound squat? That would be amazing. It would also be an exception to what we both know to be the norm.

The idea is that the “weaker” squater is able to dedicate more time to boxing practice and so improves. If the only variable is strenght, stronger is better than weaker. If the only variable is size, bigger and taller is usually better than smaller and shorter. The issue is that having an elite squat takes a lot of effort for MOST fighters. Thus they would have to take something away from their fight training.

Again, you are using an extreme example here. The crux of the point FightinIrish, LondonBoxer, Rich666, and myself are trying to make is that at some point the juice (squatting more) is no longer worth the squeeze (the training it takes to continue to put pounds on the bar). If a fighter does not have enough strength or mobility to hit a bodyweight squat (your Cruiserweight who can only do 150) than he will likely benefit from getting stronger. He is fucking weak. The notion is that somewhere between squatting a wobbly 150 pounds and hitting a 600 pound squat he would be better off just trying to maintain strength and work on things specific to boxing.

EDITED TO ADD: I just realized I was responding to a post you made specifically to LondonBoxer123. I apologize. I am not qualified to speak for him, or for any other members of this board.

Regards,

Robert A

67

[quote]Kardash wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
you can walk into amateur gyms all across the country and watch big strong guys get the living piss beaten out of them by weaker, more skillful fighters.[/quote]

I always find it funny that people tend to think 400-600lbs squatters are big fat, slow and sluggish. And for one or other reason I always tend to have less skill according to people posting on forums.

Don’t twist reality to make your argument fit. First of all, the guy I was referring to was a little Indonesian guy training here at Amsterdam. Strength =/= size.

Secondly, you twisted your argument in such a way that you made one less to no skilled, and the other highly skilled.
Of course the highly skilled person is going to win. But try putting two equally experienced and skilled fighers against each other, one is 260 pounds and squats 600 pounds, the other fighter is 150 pound fighter that squats 150 pounds. I would watch that fight - out of pure sadistical motives. If you twist things to back your argument u

Also, I don’t get what you mean that strength training is required in the higher regions. On the contrary, strength training is most useful in an amateur fight. Anybody that had amateur fights knows why: it generaly lacks power in the lower regions and is mainly point based. Therefor anybody with a big strength capability would come like a “shock” in an amateur fight.

If you would fight as a 200lbs amateur (squatting 400 pounds) against another 200lbs amateur (squatting 150 pounds) you must be very skill-less not to dominate that fight. People mainly at forums (referring to 19 century knowledge) underestimate physical strength in boxing imo.
[/quote]

You say that ‘Anybody that had amateur fights knows why: it generaly lacks power in the lower regions and is mainly point based.’ I have competed for 11 years now. As senior, I have competed at every single weight from lightwelter to heavyweight (where I was a lot smaller and weaker than the few guys I fought). I have never in any of my fights felt that being stronger would have affected the outcome, although I have on occassion wished for faster hands, or body armour.

I feel what you said contradicts itself. Points based scoring favours skills. If you want to succeed at amateur boxing, you need to develop kills. I have competed at the higher levels of the amateurs, and the only fights I have lost have been to guys with blistering hand speed, and slicker skills than me. They never hurt me, and I’d fancy my chances in the pros against them, but in the amateurs, skills and volume of punches wins fights, not power and strength.

I don’t believe I made any assertion that a guy who could squat 600lbs needed to be slow or fat, although I can see how you read that from my post. I don’t believe anyone who is 600lbs is as good a boxer as they should be, unless they have genes like Mike Tyson, and came out of the womb able to shift that kind of weight.

Show me two fighters of equal skill, in any weight class, where one can squat 200lbs, and one can squat 500lbs, and I’ll show you a fighter who should not be finding himself of equal skill to the guy weaker than him. The guy who can squat 500lbs would be better served AS A BOXER, to be of equal strength and greater skill to the guy he is fighting. I can’t see how this can be so controversial for you.

68

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
You say that ‘Anybody that had amateur fights knows why: it generaly lacks power in the lower regions and is mainly point based.’ I have competed for 11 years now. As senior, I have competed at every single weight from lightwelter to heavyweight (where I was a lot smaller and weaker than the few guys I fought). I have never in any of my fights felt that being stronger would have affected the outcome, although I have on occassion wished for faster hands, or body armour. [/quote]

So what’s your point? Your one-man general experience should not be a reason for fighters to stop gaining more strength. My own experience tells me that stronger guys generaly are better when it’s about close-in fighting and bodyshots. But again, personal experience should be a very small factor here.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I feel what you said contradicts itself. Points based scoring favours skills. If you want to succeed at amateur boxing, you need to develop kills. I have competed at the higher levels of the amateurs, and the only fights I have lost have been to guys with blistering hand speed, and slicker skills than me. They never hurt me, and I’d fancy my chances in the pros against them, but in the amateurs, skills and volume of punches wins fights, not power and strength. [/quote]

I don’t see the contradiction. Why? Because you presume I disavow skills. I don’t. In fact, punching technique and handspeed are #1 at boxing. I never claimed otherwise. However, that doesn’t mean there’s no place for strength and power.

Like I said, in a competetion where most guys just focus on scoring points, a strong fighter can sometimes steamwal the rest.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I don’t believe I made any assertion that a guy who could squat 600lbs needed to be slow or fat, although I can see how you read that from my post. I don’t believe anyone who is 600lbs is as good a boxer as they should be, unless they have genes like Mike Tyson, and came out of the womb able to shift that kind of weight. [/quote]

Slow and fat wasn’t the assertion I took from your post mate, that was just an example. However, you did say - or atleast imply - that a stronger fighter is a less skilled fighter, with which I dissagree. It’s not like the extra weight lifting session after boxing training before he grinds his lunch/dinner will make him less of an ameteur boxer.

Oh and 600lbs was just an example, make it 400lbs if you want to. The point remains valid.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Show me two fighters of equal skill, in any weight class, where one can squat 200lbs, and one can squat 500lbs, and I’ll show you a fighter who should not be finding himself of equal skill to the guy weaker than him. The guy who can squat 500lbs would be better served AS A BOXER, to be of equal strength and greater skill to the guy he is fighting. I can’t see how this can be so controversial for you.[/quote]

Eh? Again, why are you assuming one has a lesser skill than the other?

69

Because there are a limited amount of hours in a day that most of us can ‘train’ whatever that training may involve, apart from the unemployed and the very best pros. The rest of us have to work, cook food, deal with unexpected bullshit etc. With this limited number of hours, it’s my belief that time that would be spent lifting weights is better spent shadow boxing. Always.

I was careful to point out in my last post that I don’t think a stronger fighter is necessarily less skilled than the guy he his fighting, A STRONGER FIGHTER WHO HAS DEVELOPED THAT STRENGTH IN HIS LIMITED NUMBER OF FREE HOURS BY LIFTING WEIGHTS IS A LESS GOOD BOXER THAN HE AS AN INDIVIDUAL SHOULD BE. It is my belief that while strength may well be a small advantage, it is not as beneficial to a fighter as the increase in skills that that fighter would experience if he had dedicated the time to shadow boxing.

Everyone likes to think they are a skilled fighter, who at every moment is as good technically as they can be. The reality is that footwork amongst most amateurs is poor, they have a poor understanding of angles and they have predictable shot selection. This is true, in my individual personal experience, right up to some of the higher levels. I think a fighter is better focusing on his strengths and weaknesses, and dedicating any free training time to building an effective game plan around those abilities.

70

Again when it comes down to serious argument most people fall back on “Well most people only have so much time in the day and that time is better spent doing something other than strength training”

People that think of themselves as real fighters but won’t put the time in for real training. The point is most people do have the time to train, if you don’t have time to do strength training, don’t come on here and argue against it due to personal bias because “you don’t have the time”

Secondly, it’s dumb to think that some huge percentage of people that can squat 400 pounds are BIG AND SLOW. There’s a lot of athletes that can lift in that way, who are explosive and fast. For example some football players, hell, even some SPRINTERS CAN SQUAT PRETTY RIDICULOUSLY HEAVY at 170.

Certainly a 400pound squat would improve your ability to be a combat athlete in a wide variety of ways, a 400pound squat isn’t some insane feat to build up to that only some small portion of the human world can build up to, GO TO A FUCKING GYM AND LOOK AROUND, there are people who are compact, fairly small people, squatting these insane weights.

The point is it doesn’t take hours and hours per week to build up to a 400pound squat, it takes a couple hours a week, over a couple of years, it’s a progressive type of training that doesn’t steal all the time out of your weak.

#1 Squats won’t magically improve your punching/combat athleticism
#2. They will improve them if you are a skilled athlete and know how to use your body.
#3. squatting doesn’t make you big or slow.
#4. Lots of people who can squat 400pounds run 6 miles a day.

I have a high rep squat program, I run 6 miles a day, even in days where it’s -15, even though I can’t squat 400pounds (I can only squat 220 for 30 reps MAX and that is some insane feat where I almost puke) point is some people build up to doing high rep squats with 400pounds.

Look at Ken Liestner, he allegedly squatted 400pounds at 170 for REPS, like 20 reps. The guy is “tiny” you don’t want to fight someone who can lift like that, and know how to link a punch.

71

Also, strength training doesn’t just effect your strength. When you do 20-30 rep squats with anything over 200 pounds you are stressing your cardio-vascular system, your pulmonary system, and system that involves oxygen utilization, at rep 20 you are pouring sweat, all you can hear is yourself breathing like a horse, your heart pounding, you feel like you are about to collapse, when you reach rep 30 sometimes you do collapse and just breath and gasp for minutes.

This type training allows me to run FASTER for LONGER, it improves my ability to run dramatically, it improves my cardio-vascular endurance dramatically. To use the high rep squat will increase/improve most systems you use in fighting.

A lot of the same people here that say strength training is useless also don’t do sprint training, they don’t train their anaerobic endurance or burst power, they don’t realize they’d collapse on their knees after 30 seconds of fast/aggressive punching.

72

Though the average man that can squat 400 pounds would almost certainly destroy their own body by merely taking a swing. Torn pec, bicep, neck, tendons, etc.

It is pretty destructive to punch things with force, outside of training to do so, from the ground up, it becomes a fairly dangerous and risky thing to try. Certain tendons and muscles build themselves up slowly to help your body weather the storm of punching with extreme force, the neck/tendons there will get thicker, your back will build up in a distinct way, your own body will build up in a way to protect yourself from the strains of punching.

If you workout to some advanced degree but haven’t built your body up doing the movements of punching, throwing a powerful punch is likely to rip you apart.

It’d be pretty pathetic to tear a bicep or pec some-how while taking a swing, or fucking up your own shoulder.

73

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Again when it comes down to serious argument most people fall back on “Well most people only have so much time in the day and that time is better spent doing something other than strength training”

People that think of themselves as real fighters but won’t put the time in for real training. The point is most people do have the time to train, if you don’t have time to do strength training, don’t come on here and argue against it due to personal bias because “you don’t have the time”

Secondly, it’s dumb to think that some huge percentage of people that can squat 400 pounds are BIG AND SLOW. There’s a lot of athletes that can lift in that way, who are explosive and fast. For example some football players, hell, even some SPRINTERS CAN SQUAT PRETTY RIDICULOUSLY HEAVY at 170.

Certainly a 400pound squat would improve your ability to be a combat athlete in a wide variety of ways, a 400pound squat isn’t some insane feat to build up to that only some small portion of the human world can build up to, GO TO A FUCKING GYM AND LOOK AROUND, there are people who are compact, fairly small people, squatting these insane weights.

The point is it doesn’t take hours and hours per week to build up to a 400pound squat, it takes a couple hours a week, over a couple of years, it’s a progressive type of training that doesn’t steal all the time out of your weak.

#1 Squats won’t magically improve your punching/combat athleticism
#2. They will improve them if you are a skilled athlete and know how to use your body.
#3. squatting doesn’t make you big or slow.
#4. Lots of people who can squat 400pounds run 6 miles a day.

I have a high rep squat program, I run 6 miles a day, even in days where it’s -15, even though I can’t squat 400pounds (I can only squat 220 for 30 reps MAX and that is some insane feat where I almost puke) point is some people build up to doing high rep squats with 400pounds.

Look at Ken Liestner, he allegedly squatted 400pounds at 170 for REPS, like 20 reps. The guy is “tiny” you don’t want to fight someone who can lift like that, and know how to link a punch.[/quote]

Bro, you don’t box. You never been a ring. You don’t know shit about fighting.

Shut up.

74

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Again when it comes down to serious argument most people fall back on “Well most people only have so much time in the day and that time is better spent doing something other than strength training”

People that think of themselves as real fighters but won’t put the time in for real training. The point is most people do have the time to train, if you don’t have time to do strength training, don’t come on here and argue against it due to personal bias because “you don’t have the time”

Secondly, it’s dumb to think that some huge percentage of people that can squat 400 pounds are BIG AND SLOW. There’s a lot of athletes that can lift in that way, who are explosive and fast. For example some football players, hell, even some SPRINTERS CAN SQUAT PRETTY RIDICULOUSLY HEAVY at 170.

Certainly a 400pound squat would improve your ability to be a combat athlete in a wide variety of ways, a 400pound squat isn’t some insane feat to build up to that only some small portion of the human world can build up to, GO TO A FUCKING GYM AND LOOK AROUND, there are people who are compact, fairly small people, squatting these insane weights.

The point is it doesn’t take hours and hours per week to build up to a 400pound squat, it takes a couple hours a week, over a couple of years, it’s a progressive type of training that doesn’t steal all the time out of your weak.

#1 Squats won’t magically improve your punching/combat athleticism
#2. They will improve them if you are a skilled athlete and know how to use your body.
#3. squatting doesn’t make you big or slow.
#4. Lots of people who can squat 400pounds run 6 miles a day.

I have a high rep squat program, I run 6 miles a day, even in days where it’s -15, even though I can’t squat 400pounds (I can only squat 220 for 30 reps MAX and that is some insane feat where I almost puke) point is some people build up to doing high rep squats with 400pounds.

Look at Ken Liestner, he allegedly squatted 400pounds at 170 for REPS, like 20 reps. The guy is “tiny” you don’t want to fight someone who can lift like that, and know how to link a punch.[/quote]

Bro, you don’t box. You never been a ring. You don’t know shit about fighting.

Shut up.
[/quote]

x2

What Irish said.

75

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Though the average man that can squat 400 pounds would almost certainly destroy their own body by merely taking a swing. Torn pec, bicep, neck, tendons, etc.

It is pretty destructive to punch things with force, outside of training to do so, from the ground up, it becomes a fairly dangerous and risky thing to try. Certain tendons and muscles build themselves up slowly to help your body weather the storm of punching with extreme force, the neck/tendons there will get thicker, your back will build up in a distinct way, your own body will build up in a way to protect yourself from the strains of punching.

If you workout to some advanced degree but haven’t built your body up doing the movements of punching, throwing a powerful punch is likely to rip you apart.

It’d be pretty pathetic to tear a bicep or pec some-how while taking a swing, or fucking up your own shoulder.
[/quote]

Whats that shit youre smoking??? :))))

Even if you were capable to produce this extreme force,there are bodies protective mechanisms to shut it down to safe levels.

Have you ever heard of Golgi tendon organ,genius?

76

My kid brother squatted 350 for 4 reps the first time he ever squatted. He boxes, and he hits like a mother fucker. He has had less injuries than me, although I am lighter and weaker than him. I don’t think Iron claws knows what he is talking about.

77

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Again when it comes down to serious argument most people fall back on “Well most people only have so much time in the day and that time is better spent doing something other than strength training”

People that think of themselves as real fighters but won’t put the time in for real training. The point is most people do have the time to train, if you don’t have time to do strength training, don’t come on here and argue against it due to personal bias because “you don’t have the time”

Secondly, it’s dumb to think that some huge percentage of people that can squat 400 pounds are BIG AND SLOW. There’s a lot of athletes that can lift in that way, who are explosive and fast. For example some football players, hell, even some SPRINTERS CAN SQUAT PRETTY RIDICULOUSLY HEAVY at 170.

Certainly a 400pound squat would improve your ability to be a combat athlete in a wide variety of ways, a 400pound squat isn’t some insane feat to build up to that only some small portion of the human world can build up to, GO TO A FUCKING GYM AND LOOK AROUND, there are people who are compact, fairly small people, squatting these insane weights.

The point is it doesn’t take hours and hours per week to build up to a 400pound squat, it takes a couple hours a week, over a couple of years, it’s a progressive type of training that doesn’t steal all the time out of your weak.

#1 Squats won’t magically improve your punching/combat athleticism
#2. They will improve them if you are a skilled athlete and know how to use your body.
#3. squatting doesn’t make you big or slow.
#4. Lots of people who can squat 400pounds run 6 miles a day.

I have a high rep squat program, I run 6 miles a day, even in days where it’s -15, even though I can’t squat 400pounds (I can only squat 220 for 30 reps MAX and that is some insane feat where I almost puke) point is some people build up to doing high rep squats with 400pounds.

Look at Ken Liestner, he allegedly squatted 400pounds at 170 for REPS, like 20 reps. The guy is “tiny” you don’t want to fight someone who can lift like that, and know how to link a punch.[/quote]

Bro, you don’t box. You never been a ring. You don’t know shit about fighting.

Shut up.
[/quote]

No you shut up. You are SO close minded.

Manny Pacquiao has been known to squat 500lbs for reps.

Jack Dempsey would drag a sled loaded with 4 training partners up a hill over and over for 3 hours.

Mike Tyson was an advocate of extreme high rep squatting. He would squat 400lbs for 8 sets of 20.

Lennox Lewis weight trained 6 times a week. At one point he trained with Dorian Yates for 3 months. This was before the Klitschko fight.

Georges St. Pierre has a 300lb power snatch. He also makes a trip out into the outskirts of Montreal eight times a week, during the winter, to carry a log in the snow for three hours.

All these champions have been quoted as saying the most important part of their training was strength and conditioning. I mean look at the way Pacquiao fights. It’s obvious he spends minimal time in a boxing gym, and still manages to dominate everyone except a similarly weight trained Marquez. The key is his world class squat.

Myself, I’m about 50kg away from winning the BJJ worlds, which I will next year. The current champion only has a 240kg squat, so this will be easy.

78

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Though the average man that can squat 400 pounds would almost certainly destroy their own body by merely taking a swing. Torn pec, bicep, neck, tendons, etc.

It is pretty destructive to punch things with force, outside of training to do so, from the ground up, it becomes a fairly dangerous and risky thing to try. Certain tendons and muscles build themselves up slowly to help your body weather the storm of punching with extreme force, the neck/tendons there will get thicker, your back will build up in a distinct way, your own body will build up in a way to protect yourself from the strains of punching.

If you workout to some advanced degree but haven’t built your body up doing the movements of punching, throwing a powerful punch is likely to rip you apart.

It’d be pretty pathetic to tear a bicep or pec some-how while taking a swing, or fucking up your own shoulder.
[/quote]

Whats that shit youre smoking??? :))))

Even if you were capable to produce this extreme force,there are bodies protective mechanisms to shut it down to safe levels.

Have you ever heard of Golgi tendon organ,genius? [/quote]

You don’t know what you are talking about. Tommy Hearns regularly tore his pecs and shoulder ligaments during fights. At the end of his career he had had his left and right pectorals reattach 29 times and doctors operating on his shoulders would turn to Jesus after witnessing the unspeakable damage and scar tissue in the joints.

AND he was only a 300lb squatter. Imagine what a 400lb squatter could do.

Why hasn’t anyone thought of this? I just don’t understand.

79

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Again when it comes down to serious argument most people fall back on “Well most people only have so much time in the day and that time is better spent doing something other than strength training”

People that think of themselves as real fighters but won’t put the time in for real training. The point is most people do have the time to train, if you don’t have time to do strength training, don’t come on here and argue against it due to personal bias because “you don’t have the time”

Secondly, it’s dumb to think that some huge percentage of people that can squat 400 pounds are BIG AND SLOW. There’s a lot of athletes that can lift in that way, who are explosive and fast. For example some football players, hell, even some SPRINTERS CAN SQUAT PRETTY RIDICULOUSLY HEAVY at 170.

Certainly a 400pound squat would improve your ability to be a combat athlete in a wide variety of ways, a 400pound squat isn’t some insane feat to build up to that only some small portion of the human world can build up to, GO TO A FUCKING GYM AND LOOK AROUND, there are people who are compact, fairly small people, squatting these insane weights.

The point is it doesn’t take hours and hours per week to build up to a 400pound squat, it takes a couple hours a week, over a couple of years, it’s a progressive type of training that doesn’t steal all the time out of your weak.

#1 Squats won’t magically improve your punching/combat athleticism
#2. They will improve them if you are a skilled athlete and know how to use your body.
#3. squatting doesn’t make you big or slow.
#4. Lots of people who can squat 400pounds run 6 miles a day.

I have a high rep squat program, I run 6 miles a day, even in days where it’s -15, even though I can’t squat 400pounds (I can only squat 220 for 30 reps MAX and that is some insane feat where I almost puke) point is some people build up to doing high rep squats with 400pounds.

Look at Ken Liestner, he allegedly squatted 400pounds at 170 for REPS, like 20 reps. The guy is “tiny” you don’t want to fight someone who can lift like that, and know how to link a punch.[/quote]

Bro, you don’t box. You never been a ring. You don’t know shit about fighting.

Shut up.
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No you shut up. You are SO close minded.

Manny Pacquiao has been known to squat 500lbs for reps.

Jack Dempsey would drag a sled loaded with 4 training partners up a hill over and over for 3 hours.

Mike Tyson was an advocate of extreme high rep squatting. He would squat 400lbs for 8 sets of 20.

Lennox Lewis weight trained 6 times a week. At one point he trained with Dorian Yates for 3 months. This was before the Klitschko fight.

Georges St. Pierre has a 300lb power snatch. He also makes a trip out into the outskirts of Montreal eight times a week, during the winter, to carry a log in the snow for three hours.

All these champions have been quoted as saying the most important part of their training was strength and conditioning. I mean look at the way Pacquiao fights. It’s obvious he spends minimal time in a boxing gym, and still manages to dominate everyone except a similarly weight trained Marquez. The key is his world class squat.

Myself, I’m about 50kg away from winning the BJJ worlds, which I will next year. The current champion only has a 240kg squat, so this will be easy.
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I am convinced… I am selling my apartement in the city to move to the mountain.There,I am gonna shabow box in the woods,chop wood for hours at a time,sprint uphill with a heavy log on each shoulder and do heavy squatting in my cabin.This will enable me to produce extreme force in my punches to decapitate Klitchko with a single punch when I challenge him for a title.
I will also drink mountain goat piss to elevate my test levels to that of great spartan warriors of the past!

p.s. my cousin trained with GSP and said that George maxes out on power snatch only once a week,but spends most of his training time running in full body armor of a spartan hoplite in sub-zero weather.Lat week,GSP pulled 400 lb. power snatch with such power it elevated him 6 feet in the air and he crashed the weights into the ceiling.

80

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Though the average man that can squat 400 pounds would almost certainly destroy their own body by merely taking a swing. Torn pec, bicep, neck, tendons, etc.

It is pretty destructive to punch things with force, outside of training to do so, from the ground up, it becomes a fairly dangerous and risky thing to try. Certain tendons and muscles build themselves up slowly to help your body weather the storm of punching with extreme force, the neck/tendons there will get thicker, your back will build up in a distinct way, your own body will build up in a way to protect yourself from the strains of punching.

If you workout to some advanced degree but haven’t built your body up doing the movements of punching, throwing a powerful punch is likely to rip you apart.

It’d be pretty pathetic to tear a bicep or pec some-how while taking a swing, or fucking up your own shoulder.
[/quote]

Whats that shit youre smoking??? :))))

Even if you were capable to produce this extreme force,there are bodies protective mechanisms to shut it down to safe levels.

Have you ever heard of Golgi tendon organ,genius? [/quote]

You don’t know what you are talking about. Tommy Hearns regularly tore his pecs and shoulder ligaments during fights. At the end of his career he had had his left and right pectorals reattach 29 times and doctors operating on his shoulders would turn to Jesus after witnessing the unspeakable damage and scar tissue in the joints.

AND he was only a 300lb squatter. Imagine what a 400lb squatter could do.

Why hasn’t anyone thought of this? I just don’t understand.
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Imagine those 400 lb.-squatting athletes on the moon! whhooooaaa!!! they would be able to squat 2500 lb. pounds there!! If they attempted to jerk off,they would rip their genitals clear off!