Boxing Discussion Thread

Training
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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Alvarez COULD BE a major threat to Floyd. He’s far, far larger - maybe the biggest guy that Floyd has ever faced - and he’s got that Mexican warrior mentality. Dude can punch, he can hurt you bad with one shot, and his chin is solid. That being said, his fight against Trout showed that he was willing to go for long stretches without punching - and that’s a bad thing, especially against Mayweather. It’s like sitting back on defense when you’re playing Tom Brady; every second you give him he will use to pick you apart.

The thing here is that it depends on how Mayweather decides to go about fighting him. Alvarez is too large to stand and bang with, as he did with Cotto at 154. I suspect that he’ll adopt a strategy similar to what he used against Oscar, and that’s to keep his legs moving and try and land a few hard shots every round to try and dissuade him from really stepping in. It’s going to be a duel, I believe.

One other thing is that I don’t know how much of a difference those last two pounds will make. When Margo fought Pacquaio, getting to 151 was murderous on him. Will it do the same for Alvarez? I think not, because he’s young, but who knows.

There is also the potential, as there always is when you’re 36 going on 37 - you can get old overnight. Mayweather may come in looking great, and then get caught with more shots in the third or fourth round than you’ve ever seen him take, and it could be against the very wrong fighter to do that against.

I like this fight. A lot. Alvarez is a relatively basic fighter as far as I can tell but he’s big and has a lot of physical talent. Could be a classic in the making.

He is NOT Guerrero.
[/quote]

I agree, probably the biggest threat in the division to floyd perhaps. At least among those who could be considered contenders. I’m just not sure how much “biggest threat in the division” really means relatively when Floyd has been so dominant.

But biggest fighter floyd has faced? Surely that honor would go to either DLH or Corrales who was 6’0.

Many people criticized Alvarez’s performance against trout for being too inactive in the majority of the fight, which is a fair criticism, but I was honestly impressed by his movement. Mexican mentality with the ability to slip and bait guys like an inner city black kid? Shit thats a recipe for a bad motherfucker.

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Controversial one here, but with Floyd in the twilight of his career (even if not in the decline,) I would love to see Alvarez take this.
His marketability and apparent willingness to take the tough fights could assure boxing the interest of the public into the future.
He has a tough task ahead though.

I’m not sure how many here follow European boxing here, but there is a show 20th of July that has me very excited.
Chisora heads the Bill against Malik Scott, so it should capture some public Interest, but more interestingly for me the Undercard is stacked!
Irish are well represented with Carl Frampton and Gary O’Sullivan…

I think I just sold myself a ticket :smiley:

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Mayweather vs. Canelo has me more excited for a fight than anything since Mayweather vs. Hatton.

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Anyone looking forward to tonight’s fight GGG vs. Macklin? First real look at a capable opponent for GGG, can’t wait to see how it goes, should be a slugfest! Also hoping Broner vs. Maidana is made.

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[quote]dk44 wrote:
Anyone looking forward to tonight’s fight GGG vs. Macklin? First real look at a capable opponent for GGG, can’t wait to see how it goes, should be a slugfest! Also hoping Broner vs. Maidana is made.

[/quote]

triple g showed his power once again. guy is no joke. like to see him fight quillin next

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Golovkin is no fuckin joke eh?

Beautiful body shot to take Macklin out.

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Golovkin is a monster . Quicken or Chavez would be nice next fights

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GGG from the espn article “Any top fighter, any belt holder, any champion, I will fight them,” Golovkin said without hesitation. “Any time, anywhere. I am here.” “I want to fight again as soon as possible.”

Now that’s what I love to hear from a fighter! I desperately want more of that in boxing (warning: shut your ears Irish) because for me mma has the higher frequency that i like to see. They’ve very much gone the boxing route with a lot of the stars fighting infrequently, but things like Bellator where the same fighter fights every month or two are big for me personally

Ok Irish, you can look again :stuck_out_tongue:

GGG…Vicious left. That hurt me watching it. Macklin’s promoter “possibly the hardest body shot I’ve ever seen”

Damn. I have not watched much of anything from him but I am going to now.

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I wish GGG vs Pirog hadn’t fallen by the wayside.

Pirog is a fucking weirdo though, rocks up to America, has people talking shit about him 24/7, then he cold clocks a well regarded prospect and pisses off back to russia with the interim title and goes back to beating up russian nobodies.

I guess money isn’t that big a factor for him. Or something.

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Just a random inquiry; how many of you non-European guys know Scott Quigg?

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Matthysse-Garcia added to the Mayweather-Alvarez undercard! Should be a great night of fights, can’t wait. Matthysse is going to kill him IMO.

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I just watched Tyson, which is a doco on Mike Tyson and I was wondering (as someone who knows sweet fa about boxing) where people have him compared to other great heavyweights? And how would he have gone against guys like Ali, Frazier, Louis?

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This question is the topic of so much debate.

“In his prime” are the most oft repeated words in such debates.
Tyson enjoyed a brief spell of complete supremacy.
He was the unquestioned number one.
For a very short time.

When comparing fighters from different eras it is very difficult to compare and contrast abilities directly. One of the more useful methods of comparsion is on the merit of competition and longevity.

Tyson did not compete in a good period for the heavyweight division.
The golden era of the 70’s saw Ali, Frazier and Foreman with much greater names on their CV. Marciano too availed of the presence of Jersey Joe, Ezzard Charles and the Old Mongoose.
However, Joe Louis suffered this trouble also and cannot be discounted because of the weakness of his competition. Tyson’s opposition was certainly poor and he may have mitigated this with the nature of his victories, but his wins cannot be valued any more than Louis’ “Bum of the month club” or our current situation with Wladimir Klitschko.

In my opinion Tyson’s detractors most valuable arguement is that regarding his longevity.
Tyson after prison was not only removed from his prime, but an emaciated shell of his former self. When Tyson lost his sinister ability so too had he become vulnerable.

For me the reputation and the ferocity of a young Tyson will see him remembered in the Top Ten, but only just.

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[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:
Tyson’s opposition was certainly poor and he may have mitigated this with the nature of his victories, but his wins cannot be valued any more than Louis’ “Bum of the month club” or our current situation with Wladimir Klitschko.

[/quote]

I’m not sure I completely agree with this, but I don’t find it wholly inaccurate either. I think Mike had some tough opponents, I think he also did some amazing things (Knocking people out), but I do agree with donny’s comment about just making the top 10 best of all time. Promoters had a golden calf, a cash cow, whatever you’d like to call it, and they cashed in.

Mike is, and always will be, on of my all time favorite boxers.

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Well the thing I always have to say when people bring up mike’s opposition is, is it really average opposition or is it just the fact boxing was in a downturn popularity wise before Tyson came along?

Because that is true of the time, and seems to be readily forgotten.

But also, really, Tyson beat everyone there WAS to fight at the time. Everybody goes “b-but he didn’t face ” and usually the fighter of concern was still an amateur or wasn’t a contender while Tyson was on warpath.

As for tyson against other greats, i dont know. Young tyson gives anyone serious problems, I mean without sucking too much dick, what flaw did he have as a young man? His technique is damn near flawless, he had great defense, was always in phenomenal shape, was a true student of the game and above all else, FUCKING FAST.

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[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Well the thing I always have to say when people bring up mike’s opposition is, is it really average opposition or is it just the fact boxing was in a downturn popularity wise before Tyson came along?

Because that is true of the time, and seems to be readily forgotten.

But also, really, Tyson beat everyone there WAS to fight at the time. Everybody goes “b-but he didn’t face ” and usually the fighter of concern was still an amateur or wasn’t a contender while Tyson was on warpath.

As for tyson against other greats, i dont know. Young tyson gives anyone serious problems, I mean without sucking too much dick, what flaw did he have as a young man? His technique is damn near flawless, he had great defense, was always in phenomenal shape, was a true student of the game and above all else, FUCKING FAST.[/quote]

I agree with much of this. As a disclaimer, I will say that other than JCC, Tyson is probably my favourite boxer of all time so, I am obviously biased. There have been other heavyweights before and since who have had more technical flair than Tyson but, I’ve never seen one with his knockout power. Even guys like Foreman, for me, weren’t as powerful as Tyson in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Also, I think he falls victim to a bias that a lot of infighters fall victim to. Everybody holds up outfighters as the prime examples of technically proficient boxers. Many people see their ability to keep their opponent at arms-length, dart in to sting them and then dance away untouched as “true” boxing. For my money, it takes a similar amount of talent to make it through a fighter’s punches and then attack them from in very close without getting the shit beat out of you. I know this is heresy in many boxing circles but, Ali just does nothing for me on a visceral level. It’s always irritated me when people just automatically hand him the title of Greatest Heavyweight of all time. Tyson has been the only boxer in my lifetime that you could see visibly scared the crap out of every opponent he faced. When he was in his prime (and even on his downward slope) the atmosphere around every one of his fights was electric. I wouldn’t say he was the best ever but, I’d put him in his prime in the top 10 without a doubt, maybe even he slides into top 5 (might get flamed for that but, again, I’m biased).

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[quote]CMdad wrote:
Tyson has been the only boxer in my lifetime that you could see visibly scared the crap out of every opponent he faced. When he was in his prime (and even on his downward slope) the atmosphere around every one of his fights was electric.[quote]
Its funny I’ve been contemplating this train of thought a few days now.
There are a few world champions that during their reign, had a genuinely sinister aura.

Carlos Monzon
Edwin Valero
Roberto Duran
Mike Tyson
Julio Cesar Chavez
Jack Dempsey
Sonny Liston

I’d be interested to see who others add to the list.

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[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:
Sonny Liston

I’d be interested to see who others add to the list.[/quote]
Just on Liston, I remember Ali acted crazy before their fights to unsettle him cos he was so tough. Ali said tough guys aren’t scared of other tough guys, they only fear crazy guys cos they don’t understand them. So Ali acted crazy to get inside his head. Just an interesting little piece of info I remember reading.

Seems to me Tyson was both.

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[quote]Kirks wrote:
Just on Liston, I remember Ali acted crazy before their fights to unsettle him cos he was so tough. Ali said tough guys aren’t scared of other tough guys, they only fear crazy guys cos they don’t understand them. So Ali acted crazy to get inside his head. Just an interesting little piece of info I remember reading.

Seems to me Tyson was both.
[/quote]
I remeber as a kid my Dad told me that.
The press misinterpreted and thought Ali (still named Clay at the time) was simply terrified.