James Toney VS Mike Tyson

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

It’s that time again: fantasy matchups that never happened.

So James “Lights Out” Toney vs “Iron” Mike Tyson.

JT is 5’10, Mike is 5’11. Fight takes place in the heavyweight division, and assume that JT is in the best shape of his career, as is Mike.

Who takes it?

I honestly think Toney takes this on a UD. Toney had excellent defense and an iron chin, and Tyson was oft criticized for wilting if he couldn’t drop his opponent in the early rounds, not to mention his style is extremely taxing to keep up into the late rounds. I think that Tyson tries to put him away in the early rounds, possibly taking the first few rounds, then Toney makes adjustments and starts making Tyson pay every time he comes in.

2

Jesus Dave, Toney vs. Tyson? All the boxers ever and that’s what you came up with? What next? Ali vs. Vito Antefuermo at super middle?

Just breakin your balls… but this is an easy one for Tyson. At 19 years old, he was a handful for anyone, and although Toney doesn’t get knocked out, he has been put down, and he’s not a very good heavyweight… he was better when he was younger and lighter and faster.

Tyson had a problem with taller guys who could punch, not guys his own size. He’d swarm and destroy Toney pretty quickly I believe.

3

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
What next? Ali vs. Vito Antefuermo at super middle?[/quote]

Don’t fuckin tempt me haha

4

Tyson kills him. I liked toney but no way he stands to a prime Tyson. The speed Tyson had and the power would overwhelm Toney pretty quickly.

5

I can’t mesh the idea of Toney being in the best shape of his life AND also fighting at heavyweight. The only reason Toney fought heavyweight is because is a fatass who was good enough to get away with it because of his skill level.

An in shape, prime Toney probably would never be bigger than super-middle, maybe light heavy. I think a prime Tyson knocks out any version of Toney that I have ever seen fight at heavyweight.

6

prime tyson v anyone

tyson wins.

7

At heavy? Tyson wins, even if Toney does roids like he did last time he fought at that weight.

Make Tyson comes down to Light Heavy? Toney might take him, I doubt Tyson would have the same rocking power down there that he did at Heavy. It’s certainly going the distance.

8

I’m with Irish(alert the media on that one), style wise I think Tyson could answer Toney’s style pretty easy.

SKman’s point about Toney being “in shape” and HW are mutually exclusive is also a good one.

Regards,

Robert A

9

[quote]SKman wrote:
I can’t mesh the idea of Toney being in the best shape of his life AND also fighting at heavyweight. The only reason Toney fought heavyweight is because is a fatass who was good enough to get away with it because of his skill level.

An in shape, prime Toney probably would never be bigger than super-middle, maybe light heavy. I think a prime Tyson knocks out any version of Toney that I have ever seen fight at heavyweight.[/quote]

I have to disagree with this, at 5’10, HW might be a bit of a push for Toney without steroids and/or gaining some fat, but he was in fantastic shape at several points during his forays into the LHW and then cruiserweight division.

Even so, clearly being fat didn’t hurt his hand speed or reflexes at heavyweight, he put a beating on holyfield, steroids or otherwise (moot point IMO, holyfield has been on gear for the better part of two decades). Holyfield was no spring chicken, granted.

Also Irish, Toney was more active and aggressive as a middleweight, but I feel he was a better counter puncher as he moved up in weight. I don’t known if this was from adjustments made by Roach’s coaching, or just a change in approach he felt was necessary moving up against heavier opponents.

10

Has no one seen the beer gut on iron Mike?

His smaller gut
trumps Toney’s fat ass gut.

while we are at it- make it a Kevin Rooney Tyson.
not fat.old.twinklebum.happypill.tyson.

11

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]SKman wrote:
I can’t mesh the idea of Toney being in the best shape of his life AND also fighting at heavyweight. The only reason Toney fought heavyweight is because is a fatass who was good enough to get away with it because of his skill level.

An in shape, prime Toney probably would never be bigger than super-middle, maybe light heavy. I think a prime Tyson knocks out any version of Toney that I have ever seen fight at heavyweight.[/quote]

I have to disagree with this, at 5’10, HW might be a bit of a push for Toney without steroids and/or gaining some fat, but he was in fantastic shape at several points during his forays into the LHW and then cruiserweight division.

Even so, clearly being fat didn’t hurt his hand speed or reflexes at heavyweight, he put a beating on holyfield, steroids or otherwise (moot point IMO, holyfield has been on gear for the better part of two decades). Holyfield was no spring chicken, granted.

Also Irish, Toney was more active and aggressive as a middleweight, but I feel he was a better counter puncher as he moved up in weight. I don’t known if this was from adjustments made by Roach’s coaching, or just a change in approach he felt was necessary moving up against heavier opponents.[/quote]

I don’t think Toney’s style was the right foil for Tyson. Tyson had issues with tall fighters, as Irish already noted, witness “Boncecrusher” Smith and Lewis. He also had huge problems with Holyfield.

Now, the fact that Holyfield had Tyson’s number makes a strong point that Toney’s size would not have been an insurmountable issue, but I think his style would be. Tyson, though short, had a natural HW’s power and chin. Toney would be at a deficit in those areas. He would need to tire Tyson out and hit him frequently in order to wear him down. I don’t see his style doing that for him.

Holyfield made it work because he was able to interrupt Tyson, clash with him, and rough him up. It was Holyfield’s forearms and forehead that did the damage as much as his punches. Toney was too different a fighter.

Toney HL

Holyfield vs Tyson: note how different Holyfield is in the clinches than Toney was in the above

Tyson when he was able to do his thing:

I just do not think Toney could fluster Tyson SOON ENOUGH to keep from getting run over. I am fairly vocal in not even putting Tyson as a top 3 HW, maybe even outside the top 5, but he was the best in the world when things went his way. Toney would be the wrong man to take him out of his comfort zone.

Regards,

Robert A

12

No offense, but this is absurd. Tyson would level Toney within half a minute. People remember post-Buster Douglas Tyson and forget how incredible young Tyson really was. If not for D’amato’s death and the ensuing flaming downward spiral that followed, we’d be talking about the best heavyweight in history.

13

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
No offense, but this is absurd. Tyson would level Toney within half a minute. People remember post-Buster Douglas Tyson and forget how incredible young Tyson really was. If not for D’amato’s death and the ensuing flaming downward spiral that followed, we’d be talking about the best heavyweight in history.[/quote]

agree 100%.

As I said earlier, prime Tyson beats absolutely everyone in HW history never mind the likes of fucking James Toney lol.

14

I love watching Toney and early Tysons superb evasive skills and footwork.

A local example is Paul Spadafora, while his career took some unfortunate turns…the guy has incredible footwork and defense, and I was told he was trained by Sweet Pea, who seemed to have those same attributes.

Can any of the more knowledgeable posters point me in the direction of similar old time fighters?

I am personally really big on training footwork and movement for the ring and the street and feel it is a great equalizer given other attribute differences.

15

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
No offense, but this is absurd. Tyson would level Toney within half a minute. People remember post-Buster Douglas Tyson and forget how incredible young Tyson really was. If not for D’amato’s death and the ensuing flaming downward spiral that followed, we’d be talking about the best heavyweight in history.[/quote]

agree 100%.

As I said earlier, prime Tyson beats absolutely everyone in HW history never mind the likes of fucking James Toney lol. [/quote]

No he doesn’t. Lots of people beat him. Ali whips him, Frazier whips him, Foreman absolutely destroys him.

Tyson was great, especially when young, but some fighters were just better than him, especially in the head.

16

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
No he doesn’t. Lots of people beat him. Ali whips him, Frazier whips him, Foreman absolutely destroys him.

Tyson was great, especially when young, but some fighters were just better than him, especially in the head. [/quote]

No way does Ali beat him. Having thought about this some more, Foreman would be very close, but that is it.

Your last point about his head isn’t accurate. In his prime Tyson had extreme mental strength. Anyone with his size and style would have to have. To dismiss him as a bully which is the common view now, is nonsense (not saying you necessarily are).

17

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
No offense, but this is absurd. Tyson would level Toney within half a minute. People remember post-Buster Douglas Tyson and forget how incredible young Tyson really was. If not for D’amato’s death and the ensuing flaming downward spiral that followed, we’d be talking about the best heavyweight in history.[/quote]

agree 100%.

As I said earlier, prime Tyson beats absolutely everyone in HW history never mind the likes of fucking James Toney lol. [/quote]

No he doesn’t. Lots of people beat him. Ali whips him, Frazier whips him, Foreman absolutely destroys him.

Tyson was great, especially when young, but some fighters were just better than him, especially in the head. [/quote]

I agree Foreman destroys Tyson. I’d bet money Tyson beats Ali. Ali lost to Frazier, arguably twice, and from the film I’ve watched, if Frazier can beat Ali, Tyson would destroy Ali. Frazier and Tyson were similar fighters but Tyson was much more skilled and hit even harder. Tyson’s defense was at a completely different level than Frazier’s.

The tuff call in my opinion is Tyson vs Frazier. Like I said Tyson was the more skilled fighter but Frazier had heart and chin like no other heavyweight I’ve seen. The way that guy could take a beating and still keep coming back delivering a beating of his own was truly amazing. I kind of lean toward Frazier on this match. I think he’d wear Tyson out until Tyson lost heart, then he’d drop him.

Btw, I’m an expert on fighting.

18

[quote]on edge wrote:
The tuff call in my opinion is Tyson vs Frazier. Like I said Tyson was the more skilled fighter but Frazier had heart and chin like no other heavyweight I’ve seen. The way that guy could take a beating and still keep coming back delivering a beating of his own was truly amazing. I kind of lean toward Frazier on this match. I think he’d wear Tyson out until Tyson lost heart, then he’d drop him.
[/quote]

tyson would dominate frazier just like foreman did.

please explain how foreman destroys tyson.

19

I would take Fraizer and Foreman over Tyson as well. They just felt like more complete fighters and some of the few that could match power with Tyson.

I have a strong dislike of Ali so he gets his ass kicked just because.

20

[quote]666Rich wrote:
I love watching Toney and early Tysons superb evasive skills and footwork.

A local example is Paul Spadafora, while his career took some unfortunate turns…the guy has incredible footwork and defense, and I was told he was trained by Sweet Pea, who seemed to have those same attributes.

Can any of the more knowledgeable posters point me in the direction of similar old time fighters?

I am personally really big on training footwork and movement for the ring and the street and feel it is a great equalizer given other attribute differences.[/quote]

This is why I think a motivated Toney gives Tyson trouble. I fucking love watching young tyson tearing ass through the HW division, but who did he face there that had defensive skills and could counterpunch on par with Toney? It’s not like Toney has problems working from the clinch/inside either, he’s actually superb at it and where he prefers to fight from.

Ok so being more realistic, this fight would probably take place at cruiserweight. Toney has been quite muscular during his early foray into cruiser, and it’s not at all a hard weight for Tyson to make, although he’d certainly come in the bigger man on fight night.

Tyson is frustrated by opponents he could not dominate, and not only did Toney have excellent defensive skills, but he had an iron chin. He was dropped only like 2 times in his career IIRC, and one of those was by RJJ and it wasn’t really a knock down, it was just Toney being off balance when Roy hit him with a wide hook.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
The tuff call in my opinion is Tyson vs Frazier. Like I said Tyson was the more skilled fighter but Frazier had heart and chin like no other heavyweight I’ve seen. The way that guy could take a beating and still keep coming back delivering a beating of his own was truly amazing. I kind of lean toward Frazier on this match. I think he’d wear Tyson out until Tyson lost heart, then he’d drop him.
[/quote]

tyson would dominate frazier just like foreman did.

please explain how foreman destroys tyson.[/quote]

Cus D’amato himself said that Foreman was a foil for Tyson’s style.

Foreman was tall, ridiculously hard hitting, and had a chin made of steel. A fight between Tyson and Foreman is going into the the deep end, and Tyson doesn’t have great endurance, both naturally and because of his style.