this came from the griz vs rhino when the Eastwood vs John Wayne popped up.
Ali in his prime would have made Tyson look like a joke.
Well Ali was the greatest who ever lived so its obviously no contest lol… I am a little bit of a favoritist towards Ali though because of his influence on my martial arts and such, I still think Ali would win like 7 times out of 10 counting out a couple times where he could get caught by one of Tyson power hooks, Ali always played the outside game and had the reach, and speed, not easy to close the distance on a guy like that.
Just like with the computer simulation fight against Ali; Marciano would drop both of them cold.
probably the greatest showman in boxing like hendrix was the greatest showman with a guitar, but best heavyweight boxer ever… i say no way top 5… hendrix best guitarest ever, i say dozens and dozens better…
he didnt light his guitar on fire, or play sloppy behind his head, he just played the guitar better than hendrix ever could… plus , he oly got better as he got older…this is one of the many that could outplay jimi… Roy Clark - 12th Street Rag - YouTube
[quote]spk wrote:
he didnt light his guitar on fire, or play sloppy behind his head, he just played the guitar better than hendrix ever could… plus , he oly got better as he got older…this is one of the many that could outplay jimi… Roy Clark - 12th Street Rag - YouTube
[/quote]
That’s all fine and well, but could he take a Straight right to the jaw from Tyson without going down?
[quote]spk wrote:
he didnt light his guitar on fire, or play sloppy behind his head, he just played the guitar better than hendrix ever could… plus , he oly got better as he got older…this is one of the many that could outplay jimi… Roy Clark - 12th Street Rag - YouTube
If you’re talking about technique, I’ve known 5 yr olds that can outplay Hendrix. However, I’ve not known anyone who can create music like him.
On Ali vs Tyson, screw who wins. The real fun would be watching Tyson react to Ali trying to piss him off.
Ali easy. Look what he did to Prime Foreman.
/thread.
Go to 4:15 to hear his own words (from Tyson)
“He’d rather die than let you win”
“He’ll take you to deep waters and drown you”
Of course… you ask Ali… and he will have a different response. Political perhaps…mutual respect
Ali was also much Smarter. Thats a huge advantage
Foreman’s power was comparable…but no where near the skillset displayed by Tyson
This has been done to death, but I’ll play. Ali got his ass whooped by Frazier, and Tyson was Robo-Frazier: Faster, stronger, better combos and considerably more powerful. A young Tyson would destroy Ali. Ali’s only shot would be to talk so much shit that Tyson would be out of his mind and fight wild. But, a young Tyson would still have D’Amato in his corner and Cus wouldn’t let that happen. It’d be over in three rounds or less. And, Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Tyson should’ve been the greatest though.
This kind of sucks because it’s going to devolve into a thread where a lot of people who don’t know shit about boxing are talking about boxing, and as someone who boxes that’s pretty difficult to listen to.
But that being said, it’s a pretty classic matchup that all of us - boxing fans, fighters, and non-fans alike - would have loved to see, because it’s the ultimate boxer against the ultimate puncher. The two of them in their primes, going at each other, would be awesome.
After all, Ali had the speed, technique, movement, footwork, and the timing to beat him, but Tyson had the power, speed and style to get inside and definitely had a puncher’s chance.
That being said, there’s one factor that can’t be ignored - Ali’s mouth, and his style of winning the fight before it even started. He did it to Joe Frazier in their three fights, and he did it most notably to Foreman before the Rumble in the Jungle. He would have pulled out every possible stop in going after Tyson before the fight - said shit about everything from his momma to his rape convictions to his pigeons - and would have had Mike so fucking tight, and so fucking angry, before the fight that Tyson would want to just tear his head off.
This sounds great, right? But it’s not, cause in pro boxing, when you’re tense, you get tired, and when you’re pissed off, you make HUGE mistakes.This, of course, would have played directly into Ali’s hands.
Also, Ali was, at 6’3", much taller than most give him credit for. In reality, even though he’s always portrayed as smaller than Foreman, they were about the same size, and Ali had a bigger fist and a longer reach. Foreman was just wider and more intimidating. Ali would have a MASSIVE reach advantage over the 5’10" or 5’11" Tyson, and he would have known how to use it.
Tyson was awesome at using his peekaboo style to get inside, that’s true, but as fast as he would come forward, Ali would have slipped away, especially at 22 years old, when he was arguably at his best after the Patterson/Liston victories. Patterson, of course, was also trained by Cus D’Amato, and used the same peekaboo style (although not so perfectly as Tyson did.)
And, even though his angle were incredible - he could shift around your lead hand, hit you with a right hook in the ribs, follow with an uppercut, and all from a spot where you couldn’t hit him - they only worked on the inside because he was too damned short. As a result, that would have been seriously neutralized against a fleet-footed opponent.
And then there is Ali’s chin, which he rarely gets credit for but was actually incredible. He stood up to Joe Frazier’s wildly devastating left hook for 36 rounds and only got knocked down once (and he barely took a count before popping up) and stood in with and convincingly defeated some of the hardest punchers the game’s ever seen in Liston, Foreman, Shavers, and Frazier.
So Ali-Tyson I always see going one way.
The first few rounds are Ali moving and dancing, jabbing and talking, and occasionally hitting Tyson with a couple of solid rights, just to let him know that coming in is a bad idea. Tyson comes forward, maybe lands a few shots, but Ali is moving away all the time and rolling them. He’s gonna tire Mike out before he decides to fight him.
As the middle rounds progress, Tyson gets in a couple times, lands some hard shots, some good 5-6-3’s, some hooks and uppercuts that shake Ali a little… but as the rounds keep passing, and you get into the eighth, ninth, and tenth, Tyson - who could NEVER go the distance against a good fighter, and didn’t know what to do when someone could not only stand up to his punch, but fight back - would start getting hit with a lot of the same punches that Joe Frazier did - a lot of 2-3-2’s, straight shots that keep him too far to punch back without taking a lot of punishment.
Ali would time his slips, start punching towards his shoulders so Mike put his face right into them, and would follow with combinations that stung just enough before dipping back out and making Tyson try to cut off the ring.
By the championship rounds, Tyson is probably exhausted, and his right eye is probably swelling. More importantly, though, he’s demoralized, like all punchers get when they’re used to the guy in front of them disappearing after one blow. Ali knows this, and now he’s tearing into him - look at round 14 of Ali-Frazier III, where Joe is just getting absolutely murdered by lead rights and hooks - and I suspect that some point in the 11th, 12th, or 13th round (if we’re talking about an old-school 15 rounds), Ali knocks him out or makes him quit.
Who knows. I could be wrong. But I’ve thought about this one for a long time, and I just do not see Ali - who never, ever, ever got knocked out - losing this one.
GOAT. All day.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That being said, there’s one factor that can’t be ignored - Ali’s mouth[/quote]
exactly why i would love to see Tyson knock him the fuck out and shut his big mouth.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That being said, there’s one factor that can’t be ignored - Ali’s mouth[/quote]
exactly why i would love to see Tyson knock him the fuck out and shut his big mouth. [/quote]
Why? Tyson was a bigger scumbag than Ali could ever be. If you’re rooting for the better character, Ali never raped women, hit women, got into streetfights, did boatloads of drugs, etc.
I love Iron Mike but the guy was a big-time dirtbag.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This kind of sucks because it’s going to devolve into a thread where a lot of people who don’t know shit about boxing are talking about boxing, and as someone who boxes that’s pretty difficult to listen to.
[/quote]
Thats why I posted the links to the videos… an HBO series 5 parts I think.
They (boxing experts, some obviously biased but some from neutral camps) see it your way as well.
Ali beat quite a few Power Punchers as well. Plus…if Larry Holmes was in his prime that probably would have been a different outcome as well. The way his height and arms frustrated Tyson, imo. Holmes just didnt have it anymore.
[quote]Hold Up wrote:
Thats why I posted the links to the videos… an HBO series 5 parts I think.
They (boxing experts, some obviously biased but some from neutral camps) see it your way as well.
[/quote]
I’m going to check that out, thanks for posting it.
Oh yea. Larry Holmes remains an incredibly underrated champion, and a young Holmes is a far, far different fight.
In no other sport is age so crucial as in boxing…
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That being said, there’s one factor that can’t be ignored - Ali’s mouth[/quote]
exactly why i would love to see Tyson knock him the fuck out and shut his big mouth. [/quote]
Why? Tyson was a bigger scumbag than Ali could ever be. If you’re rooting for the better character, Ali never raped women, hit women, got into streetfights, did boatloads of drugs, etc.
I love Iron Mike but the guy was a big-time dirtbag.[/quote]
You can’t say that. Ali never got CAUGHT doing any of that, but that doesn’t mean he DIDN’T. He did get caught with a few mistresses though.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That being said, there’s one factor that can’t be ignored - Ali’s mouth[/quote]
exactly why i would love to see Tyson knock him the fuck out and shut his big mouth. [/quote]
Why? Tyson was a bigger scumbag than Ali could ever be. If you’re rooting for the better character, Ali never raped women, hit women, got into streetfights, did boatloads of drugs, etc.
I love Iron Mike but the guy was a big-time dirtbag.[/quote]
I guess Ali was so good at talking shit he made fans want to knock him out.
It’s easy to laugh off Tyson’s antics. (not the rape)
Irish question, could Ali have taken a couple hits from Mike? I mean power punches.