ok, Ill play
Today was 5/3/1 for chest, I also do some back/bi work
so it went
Chins - 5 sets
Bench - 5/3/1
shrugs - 4 ramping sets
Incline - 4 ramping sets
pullover - rest pause sets
bicep work
Alright I’ve got a fucking brilliant idea guys:
—If you’re having trouble picking assistance work, look at your weakest, smallest bodyparts—
-
If you have been over-training them (they are consistently sore going into workouts, you aren’t making strength gains at a good rate) reduce training volume. If you keep dealing with joint pain in them, consider reducing volume, and/or changing the assistance exercises, swapping in/out one at a time so you can determine which exercise is causing problems.
-
If you’ve been under-training them (they feel un-used, stiff, but not from soreness…and you haven’t been training them consistently lately), add training volume. As with over-training, if you get joint pain, try swapping out assistance exercises for other ones to find what works best for you.
X has some good points, as do Brick and Bonez. The goal of lifting (for me anyways) isn’t to be “right” about programs, the best way to do them, etc etc etc. The goal is to be the best at what I do. And enjoy the process.
I had a hearty laugh at Wendler’s ending comments in his new article, under his hypertrophy program.
“Conditioning must not take away from training and recovery. Since training for this goal is pretty fruity and awful (you should just train to be strong and let things fall into place), this is the only template that allows wimp conditioning.”
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
X has some good points, as do Brick and Bonez. The goal of lifting (for me anyways) isn’t to be “right” about programs, the best way to do them, etc etc etc. The goal is to be the best at what I do. And enjoy the process. [/quote]
I understand what you and the above guys are saying, don’t get me wrong. I respect what you guys have achieved. I know there is no perfect program that is ideal for everyone. I don’t have the experience to know what is right for me or to manufacture a program from scratch.
I was happy just doing the 5/3/1 with the triumvirate assistance protocol as the ebook but then I read some of you guys saying it isn’t ideally for bodybuilding, which I understand. Now, I’m not claiming to be a bodybuilder but getting bigger (in an aesthetic way) is my goal. Before you ask, I started 5/3/1 because a mate is doing it so we could motivate each other and I like the simplicity of the program… and I’ve read mainly good things about it.
So… when I saw a thread about 5/3/1 and bodybuilding, it interested me and I thought I might be able to get some ideas on how to better structure my routine, in the same way a thread title ‘twice per day, 3 times per week training’ would interest me if thats what I was thinking of doing.
I understand than I need to do some learning in the gym, I just though I could do a sort of precedent study so to speak.
PS Happy New Year!
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
ok, Ill play
Today was 5/3/1 for chest, I also do some back/bi work
so it went
Chins - 5 sets
Bench - 5/3/1
shrugs - 4 ramping sets
Incline - 4 ramping sets
pullover - rest pause sets
bicep work[/quote]
Thanks!
See that’s already got me intrigued as to the rest of your routine; how do you split it up? Why do you not do the 5/3/1 exercise first? I know I should be in the beginner forum but this thread happens to be in this forum! I just want to learn and to me that means asking questions, some of them probably stupid!
[quote]Merv77 wrote:
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
ok, Ill play
Today was 5/3/1 for chest, I also do some back/bi work
so it went
Chins - 5 sets
Bench - 5/3/1
shrugs - 4 ramping sets
Incline - 4 ramping sets
pullover - rest pause sets
bicep work[/quote]
Thanks!
See that’s already got me intrigued as to the rest of your routine; how do you split it up? Why do you not do the 5/3/1 exercise first? I know I should be in the beginner forum but this thread happens to be in this forum! I just want to learn and to me that means asking questions, some of them probably stupid![/quote]
Reading the book is always a good idea. My takeaway from it is that this is more than a set of ramping percentages, but less than a religion. The main points of the program are:
- Work in waves, with a planned rest week after 3 weeks of hard training.
- Use increasing resistance, by adding weight to your max each wave.
- Stick to something for more than a few months; this is a long term program that you can stick to without frequent injury, which will lead to superior gains over the course of a year compared to somebody who is injuring himself on a periodic basis.
- Include conditioning work so that you’re not a fat fuck who can lift 1/2 ton but cannot run around after your kids.
A number of the people over the Over 35 Lifter forum follow the program and post detailed logs, so if you are looking for examples of what other people do it’s a good place to be. Plus, there tends to be less of the ad hominem banter, so it’s a pleasant place to browse.
[quote]ag918w35 wrote:
A number of the people over the Over 35 Lifter forum follow the program and post detailed logs, so if you are looking for examples of what other people do it’s a good place to be. Plus, there tends to be less of the ad hominem banter, so it’s a pleasant place to browse.[/quote]
Thanks, I’ll take a look.
PS. I have read the book. Maybe I’ll have another read.
I’m gonna try triumvirate 5/3/1 feeling that it fits me for a bunch of reasons. I had my best size/ strength gains overall last summer when I did Bill Starr’s 5x5 hinting that I make the best gains doing what these guys preach about the big lifts, getting strong and whatnot. I feel like I’m a little too advanced to progress at the rate that Starr’s program and a lot of others call for, but I know there is still a significant amount of strength I can gain. I prefer different assistance exercises provided in the triumvirate over BBB for no other reason than it’s more interesting, maybe because I can be slightly more specific to my weakpoints. I like the short workouts because i am a pre-PA student, I don’t have all day to destroy the bodyparts from every different angle, and being really sore the next day makes focusing a bitch. I am taking Wendler’s credibility in good faith because designing my own program has never seemed to work great, so I have resigned to the fact that the people who have been doing this for 30+ years are smarter than I am and I should listen to them.
If anybody sees anything above that makes them question whether or not I have a full set of chromosomes, please tell me so I can lock myself inside a room until the appropriate amount of wisdom comes to me from above, and i can change my ways for the better.
[quote]Vnation wrote:
I’m gonna try triumvirate 5/3/1 feeling that it fits me for a bunch of reasons. I had my best size/ strength gains overall last summer when I did Bill Starr’s 5x5 hinting that I make the best gains doing what these guys preach about the big lifts, getting strong and whatnot. I feel like I’m a little too advanced to progress at the rate that Starr’s program and a lot of others call for, but I know there is still a significant amount of strength I can gain. I prefer different assistance exercises provided in the triumvirate over BBB for no other reason than it’s more interesting, maybe because I can be slightly more specific to my weakpoints. I like the short workouts because i am a pre-PA student, I don’t have all day to destroy the bodyparts from every different angle, and being really sore the next day makes focusing a bitch. I am taking Wendler’s credibility in good faith because designing my own program has never seemed to work great, so I have resigned to the fact that the people who have been doing this for 30+ years are smarter than I am and I should listen to them.
If anybody sees anything above that makes them question whether or not I have a full set of chromosomes, please tell me so I can lock myself inside a room until the appropriate amount of wisdom comes to me from above, and i can change my ways for the better.[/quote]
At 18 years old I HIGHLY doubt you are “too advanced” to progress at the rate of many programs. But I’ve been wrong before…so tell me, what are your training stats?
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Vnation wrote:
I’m gonna try triumvirate 5/3/1 feeling that it fits me for a bunch of reasons. I had my best size/ strength gains overall last summer when I did Bill Starr’s 5x5 hinting that I make the best gains doing what these guys preach about the big lifts, getting strong and whatnot. I feel like I’m a little too advanced to progress at the rate that Starr’s program and a lot of others call for, but I know there is still a significant amount of strength I can gain. I prefer different assistance exercises provided in the triumvirate over BBB for no other reason than it’s more interesting, maybe because I can be slightly more specific to my weakpoints. I like the short workouts because i am a pre-PA student, I don’t have all day to destroy the bodyparts from every different angle, and being really sore the next day makes focusing a bitch. I am taking Wendler’s credibility in good faith because designing my own program has never seemed to work great, so I have resigned to the fact that the people who have been doing this for 30+ years are smarter than I am and I should listen to them.
If anybody sees anything above that makes them question whether or not I have a full set of chromosomes, please tell me so I can lock myself inside a room until the appropriate amount of wisdom comes to me from above, and i can change my ways for the better.[/quote]
At 18 years old I HIGHLY doubt you are “too advanced” to progress at the rate of many programs. But I’ve been wrong before…so tell me, what are your training stats?[/quote]
Push press 205- 215, Bench 330, Squat 440, Deadlift is a little more than the squat but I couldn’t give you an honest number. I’m not saying I’m Dave Tate by any stretch of the imagination (especially on legs), but my progress has slowed to the point that gains in the range of 5lbs upper body lifts/ month and 10lbs lower body lifts/ month are what seem realistic at this time. You’ve probably already gone through this stage in training so any insight as to how I should approach this would be really appreciated.
In the interest of the OP’s original intent of seeing what others are doing with 5/3/1. Here is what i am doing currently, pretty similar to what alot of guys have mentioned for growth.
1: Squat 5/3/1 + Leg press, Straight-legged dumbbell dead lifts, Ham curl/leg extension Super set, calves
2: Military 5/3/1 + Seated DB press, lateral/rear raises, triceps work
3: Deadlift 5/3/1 + BB Rows, Tbar rows, H-strength rows, Thib lat pull downs supersetted with behind the neck pull downs (my back needs both heavy weight and lots of volume)
4: Jm Blakely’s bench loading parameters (5/3/1 bench did very little for me in 6 cycles), incline bench, decline, dips and some flys
5: Trap/grip work, followed by direct bicep work
Again, this is what i am doing now, 5 months ago when i started 5/3/1 it looked a bit different, in about another 5-6 cycles ill change the accessory again.
5/3/1 is a great loading/progression parameter, beyond that you have to engage that one muscle so many seem to lack…the brain!
[quote]Vnation wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Vnation wrote:
I’m gonna try triumvirate 5/3/1 feeling that it fits me for a bunch of reasons. I had my best size/ strength gains overall last summer when I did Bill Starr’s 5x5 hinting that I make the best gains doing what these guys preach about the big lifts, getting strong and whatnot. I feel like I’m a little too advanced to progress at the rate that Starr’s program and a lot of others call for, but I know there is still a significant amount of strength I can gain. I prefer different assistance exercises provided in the triumvirate over BBB for no other reason than it’s more interesting, maybe because I can be slightly more specific to my weakpoints. I like the short workouts because i am a pre-PA student, I don’t have all day to destroy the bodyparts from every different angle, and being really sore the next day makes focusing a bitch. I am taking Wendler’s credibility in good faith because designing my own program has never seemed to work great, so I have resigned to the fact that the people who have been doing this for 30+ years are smarter than I am and I should listen to them.
If anybody sees anything above that makes them question whether or not I have a full set of chromosomes, please tell me so I can lock myself inside a room until the appropriate amount of wisdom comes to me from above, and i can change my ways for the better.[/quote]
At 18 years old I HIGHLY doubt you are “too advanced” to progress at the rate of many programs. But I’ve been wrong before…so tell me, what are your training stats?[/quote]
Push press 205- 215, Bench 330, Squat 440, Deadlift is a little more than the squat but I couldn’t give you an honest number. I’m not saying I’m Dave Tate by any stretch of the imagination (especially on legs), but my progress has slowed to the point that gains in the range of 5lbs upper body lifts/ month and 10lbs lower body lifts/ month are what seem realistic at this time. You’ve probably already gone through this stage in training so any insight as to how I should approach this would be really appreciated.
[/quote]
What do you weigh btw?
Well assuming you aren’t a fat-ass that throws around decent numbers because he’s so damn big…you may be right about being too advanced for 5x5 too be best for you.
Personally, I’ve never trained by any defined program, part of the reason being that life is very unpredictable in the Marine Corps, so I need to keep my programming flexible to accommodate day-to-day changes.
What training method are you using right now, and why are you thinking about changing it?
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Vnation wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Vnation wrote:
I’m gonna try triumvirate 5/3/1 feeling that it fits me for a bunch of reasons. I had my best size/ strength gains overall last summer when I did Bill Starr’s 5x5 hinting that I make the best gains doing what these guys preach about the big lifts, getting strong and whatnot. I feel like I’m a little too advanced to progress at the rate that Starr’s program and a lot of others call for, but I know there is still a significant amount of strength I can gain. I prefer different assistance exercises provided in the triumvirate over BBB for no other reason than it’s more interesting, maybe because I can be slightly more specific to my weakpoints. I like the short workouts because i am a pre-PA student, I don’t have all day to destroy the bodyparts from every different angle, and being really sore the next day makes focusing a bitch. I am taking Wendler’s credibility in good faith because designing my own program has never seemed to work great, so I have resigned to the fact that the people who have been doing this for 30+ years are smarter than I am and I should listen to them.
If anybody sees anything above that makes them question whether or not I have a full set of chromosomes, please tell me so I can lock myself inside a room until the appropriate amount of wisdom comes to me from above, and i can change my ways for the better.[/quote]
At 18 years old I HIGHLY doubt you are “too advanced” to progress at the rate of many programs. But I’ve been wrong before…so tell me, what are your training stats?[/quote]
Push press 205- 215, Bench 330, Squat 440, Deadlift is a little more than the squat but I couldn’t give you an honest number. I’m not saying I’m Dave Tate by any stretch of the imagination (especially on legs), but my progress has slowed to the point that gains in the range of 5lbs upper body lifts/ month and 10lbs lower body lifts/ month are what seem realistic at this time. You’ve probably already gone through this stage in training so any insight as to how I should approach this would be really appreciated.
[/quote]
What do you weigh btw?
Well assuming you aren’t a fat-ass that throws around decent numbers because he’s so damn big…you may be right about being too advanced for 5x5 too be best for you.
Personally, I’ve never trained by any defined program, part of the reason being that life is very unpredictable in the Marine Corps, so I need to keep my programming flexible to accommodate day-to-day changes.
What training method are you using right now, and why are you thinking about changing it?[/quote]
5’ 10" 200- 205 I couldn’t give you an exact percentage, I would guess around 15%, carrying the inch to pinch type of a deal but nothing serious. Over the past 6 months I’ve had a lot of training ADD, though a lot of that was just me seeing what I liked and what worked for my body. HIT -style messed up my joints. Christian Thibaudeau’s workout took too damn long, I liked it, but i’m a college kid who can’t piss away 2 hours working out. GVT and HST were both decent size gainers due to the higher rep work, but they made me realize how much I enjoyed pressing heavier weights, and using the heavy weights as a barometer for training success.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
Getting stronger in the 5-15 rep range on squats, bench, deads and military presses as part of your lifting routine isn’t that crazy. Learning to perform these exercises (or the ones you select) with the muscles you want to hit, finding out if an exercise doesn’t work for you, injures you etc is something you’ll need to know no matter if you do this or something else.[/quote]
…yet, mind you, even though the posts are erased now, I was called a nigger and jumped on for questioning this all-mighty program.
Fan boys are fucking stupid.
If your goal is really big muscles, learning WHY is going to help you far more than running around the gym bragging about what “template” you are using as if that means anything.[/quote]
I personally hope (and vote if I get a vote) that whoever used that slur gets their posting privileges revoked.
The WHY people do it is because it has been tried, tested and fucking works. The same reason you do what you do. So now please will you just shut the fuck up for once?