[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
If 5/3/1 is so easy and everybody makes gains off of it, then why is it so hard for others to come up with a plan? I think most over-complicate things and get paralysis by analysis.[/quote]
The real question is, why is it so hard for them to tell me why they are doing what they are.
If you can’t answer WHY, then you are simply doing shit because of a brand name.
Getting people to learn why is the goal…but apparently some here are out to stop this.
Getting stronger in the 5-15 rep range on squats, bench, deads and military presses as part of your lifting routine isn’t that crazy. Learning to perform these exercises (or the ones you select) with the muscles you want to hit, finding out if an exercise doesn’t work for you, injures you etc is something you’ll need to know no matter if you do this or something else.
[quote]kakno wrote:
Getting stronger in the 5-15 rep range on squats, bench, deads and military presses as part of your lifting routine isn’t that crazy. Learning to perform these exercises (or the ones you select) with the muscles you want to hit, finding out if an exercise doesn’t work for you, injures you etc is something you’ll need to know no matter if you do this or something else.[/quote]
…yet, mind you, even though the posts are erased now, I was called a nigger and jumped on for questioning this all-mighty program.
Fan boys are fucking stupid.
If your goal is really big muscles, learning WHY is going to help you far more than running around the gym bragging about what “template” you are using as if that means anything.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I like the template because it gives me results…it has increased my muscular bodyweight…it has made me stronger and better conditioned. Is that not bodybuilding??
Christ it’s like if somebody has a different idea than training 1 bodypart a day 6 days a week then they are crazy.
Again, it’s bodybuilding if it builds your body. Just because it’s not your particular brand of Vodka does not mean it does not produce excellent results.
It’s still a 4 or 5 day split…this is not some total body training system.[/quote]
WTF?
WHO SAID ANYTHING AT ALL NEGATIVE ABOUT THIS TEMPLATE?
Answer that question first before we move on.
Trying to get people to know WHY they are doing what they are is causing some of you to take offense?
Really?
Why so weak minded?
Who insulted your program?
If the answer is “no one” then what is your problem?
[/quote]
I swear to god you argue with yourself on purpose…I was simply addressing what you said earlier. You manage to make stuff up and be snide at the same time, “weak minded”…really?
Perhaps you are correct maybe I am in the wrong place, maybe the bodybuilding forum needs to have more 30 page threads on exercises to hit your serratus anterior…and how big to get before you want to never do a contest…
But for the record, you should be happy that people on this forum are getting bigger and stronger, it seems to be one of your bigger bitches about T-Nation.
If liking a program because it works and makes me bigger and stronger makes me a “fan boy” as you so eloquently put it…I take it.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I like the template because it gives me results…it has increased my muscular bodyweight…it has made me stronger and better conditioned. Is that not bodybuilding??
Christ it’s like if somebody has a different idea than training 1 bodypart a day 6 days a week then they are crazy.
Again, it’s bodybuilding if it builds your body. Just because it’s not your particular brand of Vodka does not mean it does not produce excellent results.
It’s still a 4 or 5 day split…this is not some total body training system.[/quote]
WTF?
WHO SAID ANYTHING AT ALL NEGATIVE ABOUT THIS TEMPLATE?
Answer that question first before we move on.
Trying to get people to know WHY they are doing what they are is causing some of you to take offense?
Really?
Why so weak minded?
Who insulted your program?
If the answer is “no one” then what is your problem?
[/quote]
I swear to god you argue with yourself on purpose…I was simply addressing what you said earlier. You manage to make stuff up and be snide at the same time, “weak minded”…really?
Perhaps you are correct maybe I am in the wrong place, maybe the bodybuilding forum needs to have more 30 page threads on exercises to hit your serratus anterior…and how big to get before you want to never do a contest…
But for the record, you should be happy that people on this forum are getting bigger and stronger, it seems to be one of your bigger bitches about T-Nation.
If liking a program because it works and makes me bigger and stronger makes me a “fan boy” as you so eloquently put it…I take it.[/quote]
Yes, weak minded.
This was my post:
[quote]
Then they aren’t bodybuilding. This is about the results made, not what template you subscribe to like a brand of jeans.
If you are doing shit just because you enjoy doing it regardless of the outcome, you just may be in the wrong forum.
Likewise, if you are doing shit and don’t know why, don’t expect to learn your own body and what it needs to grow optimally. [/quote]
Where the fuck in here does it sound like I am referring to people who ARE making good progress?
Or did I specifically write that for people doing a routine regardless of the outcome?
Your reading comprehension sucks.
It is true that most on here don’t care to design their own programs because of laziness, not having confidence, not having enough experience, ineptitude in following directions and advice, and not knowing anyone PERSONALLY (not on the friggin’ internet), and (I’m sorry to say this last one) lack of intellecual ability (there’s not other way to put it).
It is true that NO top ranking bodybuilder follows 5/3/1. It is true that VERY FEW top ranking bodybuilders follow a “branded” program (eg, Max OT, Doggcrap, some other thing that I think Jason Cutler was experimenting with, and another thing Robbie Robinson was doing with Trevor Smith for some masters competition).
It is true that although there have been a few (!) people who’ve done GOOD in powerlifting and bodybuilding, if they wanted to make it to the very top in either one, they had to make a decision. This says something! Most “powerbuilders” (whatever the heck you wanna call them) didn’t make it to the top and there hasn’t been one Mr. Olympia who has REGULARLY competed in powerlifting. Most powerlifters don’t look like bodybuilders. People like Andy Fiedler, Ken Lain (old timer), Vince Anello, David Waterman, Doug Young, and Sam Byrd are/were a minority.
It is true that the word “accessory” applies to lifts that build the competitive lifts (squat, bench press, deadlift). I’m not sure how this applies to bodybuilding because there are no competitive lifts. But if people liek these terms, fine. But I do think it’s a reflection of not being informed of exactly how top BBers train. As I wrote in my BB Bible thread and about a hundred times, nearly all train pretty much the same way with minor variations.
But then again, it is true, that hardly anyone around here competes or makes a living in some form or another from bodybuilding; so it actually doesn’t matter what the heck they do to build a physique (whatever kind of physique they want) as long as they make progress and are happy. At this point, I don’t like cookie cutter pgorams at all, unless I’m taking on some form of activity that I have little to no experience in (had to do this when setting up a running routine in the past year).
I got the ebook. It’s good. It’s just not for a bodybuilder’s bodybuilder (lack of a better way to put it).
X: As I’ve written before, I have no beef with you, but I’m unsure as to why you’re so intolerant of how others train, especialyl considering you’re not coachign them and they’re never gonna compete or earn a living from this.
And you also know that we agree in that many in lifting have total incompetence and inteptitude in figuring shit out for themselves.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
… I was called a nigger and jumped for questioning this all-mighty program.
[/quote]
Being called the N word for discussign a program is absurd and disturbing.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
It is true that most on here don’t care to design their own programs because of laziness, not having confidence, not having enough experience, ineptitude in following directions and advice, and not knowing anyone PERSONALLY (not on the friggin’ internet), and (I’m sorry to say this last one) lack of intellecual ability (there’s not other way to put it).
It is true that NO top ranking bodybuilder follows 5/3/1. It is true that VERY FEW top ranking bodybuilders follow a “branded” program (eg, Max OT, Doggcrap, some other thing that I think Jason Cutler was experimenting with, and another thing Robbie Robinson was doing with Trevor Smith for some masters competition).
It is true that although there have been a few (!) people who’ve done GOOD in powerlifting and bodybuilding, if they wanted to make it to the very top in either one, they had to make a decision. This says something! Most “powerbuilders” (whatever the heck you wanna call them) didn’t make it to the top and there hasn’t been one Mr. Olympia who has REGULARLY competed in powerlifting. Most powerlifters don’t look like bodybuilders. People like Andy Fiedler, Ken Lain (old timer), Vince Anello, David Waterman, Doug Young, and Sam Byrd are/were a minority.
It is true that the word “accessory” applies to lifts that build the competitive lifts (squat, bench press, deadlift). I’m not sure how this applies to bodybuilding because there are no competitive lifts. But if people liek these terms, fine. But I do think it’s a reflection of not being informed of exactly how top BBers train. As I wrote in my BB Bible thread and about a hundred times, nearly all train pretty much the same way with minor variations.
But then again, it is true, that hardly anyone around here competes or makes a living in some form or another from bodybuilding; so it actually doesn’t matter what the heck they do to build a physique (whatever kind of physique they want) as long as they make progress and are happy. At this point, I don’t like cookie cutter pgorams at all, unless I’m taking on some form of activity that I have little to no experience in (had to do this when setting up a running routine in the past year).
I got the ebook. It’s good. It’s just not for a bodybuilder’s bodybuilder (lack of a better way to put it).
X: As I’ve written before, I have no beef with you, but I’m unsure as to why you’re so intolerant of how others train, especialyl considering you’re not coachign them and they’re never gonna compete or earn a living from this.
And you also know that we agree in that many in lifting have total incompetence and inteptitude in figuring shit out for themselves. [/quote]
Great post…well stated.
Brick, nothing here shows intolerance to this program. NOTHING. I asked why and got called a nigger for it and am now dealing with posters acting like I attacked their religion by asking the simple question WHY.
Why the fuck would someone do “TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS” unless they fucking needed TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS?
Yeah, most bodybuilding programs already utilize these exercises so again, if you don’t know WHY you are doing this and that, don’t expect to stand out.
And yes it does matter whether someone competes or whether they simply want to be one of the biggest and strongest in the gym.
The stand out posters here are Holy Mac, H4M and a few others…and NONE of these guys are simply in the gym doing shit with no concept of WHY.
They are attacking me because they know they can’t answer the fucking question.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I like the template because it gives me results…it has increased my muscular bodyweight…it has made me stronger and better conditioned. Is that not bodybuilding??
Christ it’s like if somebody has a different idea than training 1 bodypart a day 6 days a week then they are crazy.
Again, it’s bodybuilding if it builds your body. Just because it’s not your particular brand of Vodka does not mean it does not produce excellent results.
It’s still a 4 or 5 day split…this is not some total body training system.[/quote]
WTF?
WHO SAID ANYTHING AT ALL NEGATIVE ABOUT THIS TEMPLATE?
Answer that question first before we move on.
Trying to get people to know WHY they are doing what they are is causing some of you to take offense?
Really?
Why so weak minded?
Who insulted your program?
If the answer is “no one” then what is your problem?
[/quote]
I swear to god you argue with yourself on purpose…I was simply addressing what you said earlier. You manage to make stuff up and be snide at the same time, “weak minded”…really?
Perhaps you are correct maybe I am in the wrong place, maybe the bodybuilding forum needs to have more 30 page threads on exercises to hit your serratus anterior…and how big to get before you want to never do a contest…
But for the record, you should be happy that people on this forum are getting bigger and stronger, it seems to be one of your bigger bitches about T-Nation.
If liking a program because it works and makes me bigger and stronger makes me a “fan boy” as you so eloquently put it…I take it.[/quote]
Yes, weak minded.
This was my post:
Always a pleasure talking to you.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
… I was called a nigger and jumped for questioning this all-mighty program.
[/quote]
Being called the N word for discussign a program is absurd and disturbing.
[/quote]
The entire reaction in this thread is disturbing. It makes little sense…other than fan boys being ridiculous to start with.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Brick, nothing here shows intolerance to this program. NOTHING. I asked why and got called a nigger for it and am now dealing with posters acting like I attacked their religion by asking the simple question WHY.
Why the fuck would someone do “TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS” unless they fucking needed TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS?
Yeah, most bodybuilding programs already utilize these exercises so again, if you don’t know WHY you are doing this and that, don’t expect to stand out.
And yes it does matter whether someone competes or whether they simply want to be one of the biggest and strongest in the gym.
The stand out posters here are Holy Mac, H4M and a few others…and NONE of these guys are simply in the gym doing shit with no concept of WHY.
They are attacking me because they know they can’t answer the fucking question.[/quote]
I agree with all you’ve written.
And you’ve listed the FEW here who REALLY know how to train like a bodybuilding purist! Most on here don’t care to be a purist, nor are they capable of figuring out how to become one.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Brick, nothing here shows intolerance to this program. NOTHING. I asked why and got called a nigger for it and am now dealing with posters acting like I attacked their religion by asking the simple question WHY.
Why the fuck would someone do “TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS” unless they fucking needed TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS?
Yeah, most bodybuilding programs already utilize these exercises so again, if you don’t know WHY you are doing this and that, don’t expect to stand out.
And yes it does matter whether someone competes or whether they simply want to be one of the biggest and strongest in the gym.
The stand out posters here are Holy Mac, H4M and a few others…and NONE of these guys are simply in the gym doing shit with no concept of WHY.
They are attacking me because they know they can’t answer the fucking question.[/quote]
I agree with all you’ve written.
And you’ve listed the FEW here who REALLY know how to train like a bodybuilding purist! Most on here don’t care to be a purist, nor are they capable of figuring out how to become one. [/quote]
H4M isnt a bodybuilder and doesnt train for bodybuilding. He trains for powerlifting.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Brick, nothing here shows intolerance to this program. NOTHING. I asked why and got called a nigger for it and am now dealing with posters acting like I attacked their religion by asking the simple question WHY.
Why the fuck would someone do “TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS” unless they fucking needed TWO ACCESSORY MOVEMENTS?
Yeah, most bodybuilding programs already utilize these exercises so again, if you don’t know WHY you are doing this and that, don’t expect to stand out.
And yes it does matter whether someone competes or whether they simply want to be one of the biggest and strongest in the gym.
The stand out posters here are Holy Mac, H4M and a few others…and NONE of these guys are simply in the gym doing shit with no concept of WHY.
They are attacking me because they know they can’t answer the fucking question.[/quote]
I agree with all you’ve written.
And you’ve listed the FEW here who REALLY know how to train like a bodybuilding purist! Most on here don’t care to be a purist, nor are they capable of figuring out how to become one. [/quote]
H4M isnt a bodybuilder and doesnt train for bodybuilding. He trains for powerlifting. [/quote]
Thanks for the correction. I don’t follow everyone on here. However, I understood X was listing competent people, regardless of their endeavor. YOU are one of them too - one of the few people who knows how to get shit done without constant hand holding and questioning.
I’m not the best, nor do I know everything about nutrition or exercise (for whatever endeavor). But I think I know my shit and how to apply it even though my goals have changed. I still speak in context and you can see that in my lengthy post above. I remain tolerant of those who are soemwhat inept or inefficient and self destructive and eternally mentally masturbating. Why? Because I like MOST, though not all, of what goes on in these forums. And if it wasn’t for the vast majority of folks on here who DON’T know what they’re doing, we’d be reduced to maybe NO forum or website and T-Nation’s sales would plummet! No traffic → no sales → no website → no forum!
[quote]…yet, mind you, even though the posts are erased now, I was called a nigger and jumped on for questioning this
[/quote]
This is so fustraiting retarded, people ever heard of perspective?
(Called that by who? Care to name and shame, X?
P.S. That is supposed to be the f-word, stupid iPod censors all swears
He was deleted. It doesn’t matter now even though I am sure that same poster probably has about 10 user names.
Most programs are retarded. I will never use 5/3/1 I’ll have a look into it but I can’t ever see myself using it.
Expecting a program to bring the intensity for you is a cop out. As long as you are making progress in relation to your own goals you don’t need a program at all really.
I never followed a program until the start of December when I started doing starting strength and that’s only because it fits with my goals at the moment, otherwise I’d be doing my own thing.
I injured myself fairly badly at the end of 09 and was out for most of a year. What I’m doing now is trying to fix some postural issues while trying to gain some strength back.
SS is low volume and my workouts where I’m addressing postural issues add to that volume.
But my personal opinion…
I hate SS.
The lack of accessory work is shit.
In the past most of my big strength and general gains have come from adding more volume in from accessory work.
Example: Tricep pushdowns… Resulted in a better bench. Who would of guessed huh? lol.
Whoever said the N word to X is a low pathetic idiot.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
…yet, mind you, even though the posts are erased now, I was called a nigger and jumped on for questioning this all-mighty program.
Fan boys are fucking stupid.
If your goal is really big muscles, learning WHY is going to help you far more than running around the gym bragging about what “template” you are using as if that means anything.[/quote]
Yeah, that’s just sad. I don’t think anyone disagrees with what you actually write in the thread. They just misinterpret critizism against clueless idiots who walk around the gym with a “magic matrix” and think it’s directed at clever use of 5/3/1, other methods you’ve tried and evaluated, A&P-book, common sense, food and sleep.
I trialled 5/3/1 for bodybuilders as outlined by Wendler on this site. I liked the change in pace, but ditched that template after a month. Felt like the volume wasn’t enough for me, and that I preferred to perform ‘like’ exercises on a given day. So I use 5/3/1 scheme over a 3 day push/pull/legs layout and I’m enjoying it a lot more and making some solid progress. I would most definitely go back to his template, but only over a whole meso-cycle geared at recovery.
The thing that grabs my attention from the program is that I’m only required to focus on that final set of the big exercises. I’m still experimenting with it a bit, as I’m still early into it at the fourth training cycle, but with each passing cycle it is improving. The assistance work I use to train on feel though. Usually it is the same exercises within similar rep ranges, but I gauge my progress from set to set. Drop what I’m not feeling, add in whatever I am feeling that day.
I do what Jim calls majoring in the minors I guess, but I don’t care. It is how I train, and what I will use for my competitions this year even if it isn’t the most optimal.
Have to say though, after doing some reading into the program, I’m seeing things a lot more clearly and always falling back on simplicity.