the majority of lifters say that the best program for a beginner to start on is starting strength and that you will see good size and strength gains but I’ve known of people who’ve done this program for a while when they first started and besides getting stronger they didn’t get much bigger in fact a friend of mine that goes to the same gym as me followed Rippetoes program meaning he followed the gallon of milk a day rule and he ended up getting fatter so I was just wondering are bodybuilding splits better for people who want size then starting strength is
I think it makes sense to get strong then get big. If your weak the weights you move for reps probably won’t give you the desired results IMO. Also putting on a little fat if your trying to bulk/grow when your a beginner is what comes along with a excess of calories and is not a huge deal. I’d like to try this in the near future: Total Body Split Training
Starting Strength is not a physique program. If your goal is a better physique then I would follow a program aimed at that goal. You will NOT get bigger without getting stronger. If you want to look like a bodybuilder or physique competitor then train like one.
Rep ranges 6 - 12 best for hypertrophy.
I train 4 x 8 and get better gains than I did on starting strength. And it’s bs that it’ll make you bigger but not stronger. You might not be as strong as you would on a 5 x 5 programme but you keep lifting progressively higher weigts at the 6 - 8 rep ranges and your lifts go up - you think he’s not going to get stronger? That’s nuts, of course he will.
OP google set / rep ranges for hypertrphy and you’ll find 5 x 5 is not optimum for hypertrophy it’s kinda 75% strength gains and 25% hypertrophy. 6 - 12 is scinetifically proven to be better for aesthetic htpertrophic gains. And you will get stronger too, just not as strong as on a strength programme - this is all elementary.
You can still get good gains buy not doing GOMAD and 5 x 5 and then dieting back down, by doing hihger rep ranges, eating enough protien and calories to grow AND doing cardio to get steady lean gains.
The frigging bulk and cut is not the only way to get in shape man.
The way 5 x 5 is a religion on this site is worrying and reeks of income generation.
Not tryingto talk anyone out ofit just saying their are other proven and varied options, not to mention what works forone person will work for another.
Do research for example and 3 x 8 is as strongly reccomended as 5 x 5 is on here.
Don’t only research on one website for your info man, that’s all I’m saying.
[quote]leon36 wrote:
The way 5 x 5 is a religion on this site is worrying and reeks of income generation.[/quote]
Seriously?
To quote bodybuilding “Iron Guru” Vince Gironda. Who knew something about hypertrophy.
[quote]
Sets and Reps
Beginners should start off with 3 sets of 8 reps. After the first month they should graduate to 5 sets of 5 reps. The third month, 6 sets of 6 reps. This of course should be retained for at least 3 months before trying the advanced 8 sets of 8 reps.
[…]
Select a weight that you can handle properly and in slow form for the full muscle workout. You are not going to use more or less than one poundage with each muscle worked. Do not jump your weights more often than every third workout as too fast advancement of weights only spells sloppy form. Always choose a weight you can handle with good form for all your sets.
Rapid breathing or multiple breathing breath control should be employed on any and all strict form exercises.[/quote]
This worked for Vince and his clients. Starting Strength works as a good foundational program for others. Other 5x5 programs work for others. 20rep squat programs work for many people. And there’s the frequently referred-to kingbeef thread in the BB forum with other routines.
[quote]johnny123 wrote:
…
but I’ve known of people who’ve done this program for a while when they first started and besides getting stronger they didn’t get much bigger in fact a friend of mine that goes to the same gym as me followed Rippetoes program meaning he followed the gallon of milk a day rule and he ended up getting fatter
…[/quote]
What were this guy’s before stats (height, weight, general fatness [chubby, average, lean, skinny])?
Not calling you out specifically, but I’m getting tired of seeing people blaming Starting Strength plus GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) for turning them fat. Rippetoe spends exactly a whopping five paragraphs in the book talking about nutrition. Where some people find a way to read “drink a gallon of milk a day and you’ll reach your goal, presto change-o”, Rippetoe actually starts off by saying:
“[Eating] ‘Well’ means 4 or so meals per day, based on meat and egg protein sources, with lots of fruit and vegetables, and lots of milk. Lots. Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500-5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition.”
If people “eat well” as Rip just described and still get fat, that’s one thing. If they do the Starting Strength training program, and drink a gallon of milk while eating whatever random crap, that’s another thing entirely.
Starting Strength isn’t some cure-all where everybody should spend their first 4-6 months in the gym following the plan, but it definitely gets more grief than it deserves.
There is no “better” in bodybuilding. Starting Strength works for some people when used intelligently. “Traditional” bodybuilding splits work for some people when used intelligently. “Starting Strength” with some added accessory lifts, 5/3/1, classic HIT, they can all build muscle and strength.
That’s the nice thing about training being a lifelong event. There’s plenty of time to learn what does and doesn’t work for you.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
That’s the nice thing about training being a lifelong event. There’s plenty of time to learn what does and doesn’t work for you.[/quote]
^This is one of the most misunderstood/ignored concepts of all types of weightlifting/strength training/bodybuilding. Everyone seems to want instant results and forgets that it is a learning experience. Some people so blindly cling to dogma that they fail to realize it is holding them back.
I have nothing against Starting Strength, I haven’t even read the book. It sounds intelligently designed for newbies looking to gain strength. I only recommended the OP look into a more physique oriented program as it would seem to align with his goals better.
Though, I still wouldn’t recommend he start out on a six day split. In the end, however, any time spent lifting on any decent program will at least teach you something about yourself.
[quote]ryno76 wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
That’s the nice thing about training being a lifelong event. There’s plenty of time to learn what does and doesn’t work for you.[/quote]
^This is one of the most misunderstood/ignored concepts of all types of weightlifting/strength training/bodybuilding. Everyone seems to want instant results and forgets that it is a learning experience. [/quote]
Not for nothing, but this idea really sank in for me after I interviewed Robby Robinson and Dave Draper. These guys are in their mid-to-late 60s, I think Draper actually turned 70 this year, and they still lift and train on a regular basis.
I’m 32 right now and whenever I have a mini-panic attack or start overstressing about anything training-related, I try to remember that I’m still going to end up in the gym as a kinda-wrinkly, very grey-haired, excellently built 60-something year old dude. That makes stuff like “should I do 4x8 or 4x10 this workout” not such a big deal.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Not for nothing, but this idea really sank in for me after I interviewed Robby Robinson and Dave Draper. These guys are in their mid-to-late 60s, I think Draper actually turned 70 this year, and they still lift and train on a regular basis.
I’m 32 right now and whenever I have a mini-panic attack or start overstressing about anything training-related, I try to remember that I’m still going to end up in the gym as a kinda-wrinkly, very grey-haired, excellently built 60-something year old dude. That makes stuff like “should I do 4x8 or 4x10 this workout” not such a big deal.[/quote]
I’ve got an autographed copy of “Brother Iron, Sister Steel.” Draper offers some awesome insight in that book from a guy that has truly been there, done that when it comes to bodybuilding. I lifted for about six to seven years and made some good gains, then I quit and became a bodyweight only guy for a couple of years.
The bodyweight workouts didn’t get me where I wanted to be and I missed the iron so I regained my sanity and started lifting again regularly two years ago.
Since then, I have had a herniated disc I ignored for years, ironically got it doing handstand push-ups in my bodyweight days, which I had surgery for at the end of May. Right now I am doing high reps using weights that I used to warm up with. That really stressed me out at first, but then I remembered that lifting is a lifelong pursuit.
My main paint is can you put size on whilst doing starting strength
[quote]johnny123 wrote:
My main paint is can you put size on whilst doing starting strength[/quote]
Question you mean?
Yes. You can put on size whilst doing starting strength. However, most of those gains will not be in your upper body. Other programs can produce size faster than SS.
In reply to the above post I am finding 4 x 8 good. See my last pic and 17 days later pic (first pic in thread in my 'lagging lats thread.) You can’t say them’s not good results for just under a month, literally about 6 training sessions, maybe 7.
And I only workout 2 x a week.
[quote]leon36 wrote:
In reply to the above post I am finding 4 x 8 good. See my last pic and 17 days later pic (first pic in thread in my 'lagging lats thread.) You can’t say them’s not good results for just under a month, literally about 6 training sessions, maybe 7.
And I only workout 2 x a week.[/quote]
Besides slightly different lighting/posing, I cannot see a difference between those two pics, nor should I be able to in 17 days. You should not be giving advice. Not trying to be a dick, but you are for all intents and purposes untrained, you have not had any time to find out what works and what doesn’t.