Body Fat and Heart Disease

BlakeAJackson · June 19, 2013, 9:53pm

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
As a stat major the first thought that pops into my head is this:

Cardiovascular health is greatly improved by cardiovascular exercise.

The vast majority of people getting to 10% and under are using significantly more cardiovascular exercise than someone around 20% when talking about the average human. Would someone maintaining a level of BF around 20% who engaged in productive cardio to improve heart health be at a risk level typical of the average individual at 20% or closer to the average 10% person more similar in terms of cardiovascular training?

Basically I am wondering what the numbers look like when adjusted for cardiovascular training.[/quote]
Good Post!!!
I think that a person who is sedentary at 20% would be at a higher risk than an athelete who sits at 20% because of the factors that you listed.
This is why I am a proponent of doing cardio while “bulking” shudders at that word
it is good for keeping a strong and healthy cardiovascular system which cannot be a bad thing right?

good post![/quote]

This is exactly what I was arguing as reasons why I didn’t acknowledge the validity of later study you posted on “obese” people lowering visceral fat.

There are several ideas being entertained through out this thread.

It is not that they are completely unrelated, but they cannot all be tired together to put a nice bow on top.

Edit: it would not be appropriate to try and put them all together to try and paint a picture.

J_Prufrock · June 19, 2013, 9:30pm

This thread coupled with the thread about Stu leaving made this a very sad birthday for me.

BlakeAJackson · June 19, 2013, 9:51pm

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Dear Professor,
I have asked you kindly at least 10 times to show me where you got that quote from Brick.
You “quoted” him and used that to be a condescending dickhead to me in order to prove your point.
I have asked close to a dozen times where you got that quote from.
Are we to take your lack of a response to mean that you did in fact make that quote up?

Does this mean that you were blatantly lying in rest to further your argument and now that you were called on it your true colors of cowardice show?
No response, no ownership of your lying bullshit, nothing.
Is this the conclusion that we are left with?

With how many times you have shouted “your reading comprehension sucks”, “stop lying”, “address what was actually written” and all that I’m surprised that you didn’t take one bit of your own advice.

I am still waiting for a response but I won’t hold my breath.[/quote][/quote]

The discussion moved on. Mark the failure to acknowledge as a win if you want and move the fuck on. Everyone gets that you’re one of the cool kids. If they arn’t making you feel welcome enough then feel good to know outsiders still would lump you in with them.

gswork · June 19, 2013, 9:50pm

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]gswork wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]gswork wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Gaining any body fat at all and OBESITY are not the same.[/quote]
Right. [/quote]
Certainly
Yet much confusion ensued insisting tiny changes in bf ‘must’ make a difference to cvd risk
[/quote]

Yeah, of course tiny changes don’t do much. That’s not what we were speaking of. We were speaking of the condition of OVERWEIGHT, not tiny changes. [/quote]
Earlier in the thread there were assertions that losing a few % bf when already comfortably below obesity would lower cvd risk. That requires evidence but what evidence exists doesn’t support it, however much we may want to believe it

Now being overweight sure, and at one point we even discussed being muscular ‘overweight’ too for the possible extra load on the cv system[/quote]

I highly doubt drug free induced muscle mass poses a health risk. But then again I don’t know everything.

[/quote]
I think you’re probably right about that for non drug gains , my guess anyway

super_saiyan · June 19, 2013, 10:05pm

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Dear Professor,
I have asked you kindly at least 10 times to show me where you got that quote from Brick.
You “quoted” him and used that to be a condescending dickhead to me in order to prove your point.
I have asked close to a dozen times where you got that quote from.
Are we to take your lack of a response to mean that you did in fact make that quote up?

Does this mean that you were blatantly lying in rest to further your argument and now that you were called on it your true colors of cowardice show?
No response, no ownership of your lying bullshit, nothing.
Is this the conclusion that we are left with?

With how many times you have shouted “your reading comprehension sucks”, “stop lying”, “address what was actually written” and all that I’m surprised that you didn’t take one bit of your own advice.

I am still waiting for a response but I won’t hold my breath.[/quote][/quote]

The discussion moved on. Mark the failure to acknowledge as a win if you want and move the fuck on. Everyone gets that you’re one of the cool kids. If they arn’t making you feel welcome enough then feel good to know outsiders still would lump you in with them.[/quote]

LOLOLOL

BlakeAJackson · June 19, 2013, 10:13pm

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Dear Professor,
I have asked you kindly at least 10 times to show me where you got that quote from Brick.
You “quoted” him and used that to be a condescending dickhead to me in order to prove your point.
I have asked close to a dozen times where you got that quote from.
Are we to take your lack of a response to mean that you did in fact make that quote up?

Does this mean that you were blatantly lying in rest to further your argument and now that you were called on it your true colors of cowardice show?
No response, no ownership of your lying bullshit, nothing.
Is this the conclusion that we are left with?

With how many times you have shouted “your reading comprehension sucks”, “stop lying”, “address what was actually written” and all that I’m surprised that you didn’t take one bit of your own advice.

I am still waiting for a response but I won’t hold my breath.[/quote][/quote]

The discussion moved on. Mark the failure to acknowledge as a win if you want and move the fuck on. Everyone gets that you’re one of the cool kids. If they arn’t making you feel welcome enough then feel good to know outsiders still would lump you in with them.[/quote]

LOLOLOL[/quote]

Bro when my posts reach 4k your lol would show irony, but I honestly can say you and your friends are what are fucking up the threads.

ryanbCXG · June 19, 2013, 10:19pm

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Dear Professor,
I have asked you kindly at least 10 times to show me where you got that quote from Brick.
You “quoted” him and used that to be a condescending dickhead to me in order to prove your point.
I have asked close to a dozen times where you got that quote from.
Are we to take your lack of a response to mean that you did in fact make that quote up?

Does this mean that you were blatantly lying in rest to further your argument and now that you were called on it your true colors of cowardice show?
No response, no ownership of your lying bullshit, nothing.
Is this the conclusion that we are left with?

With how many times you have shouted “your reading comprehension sucks”, “stop lying”, “address what was actually written” and all that I’m surprised that you didn’t take one bit of your own advice.

I am still waiting for a response but I won’t hold my breath.[/quote][/quote]

The discussion moved on. Mark the failure to acknowledge as a win if you want and move the fuck on. Everyone gets that you’re one of the cool kids. If they arn’t making you feel welcome enough then feel good to know outsiders still would lump you in with them.[/quote]

LOLOLOL[/quote]

Bro when my posts reach 4k your lol would show irony, but I honestly can say you and your friends are what are fucking up the threads. [/quote]
Serious question what do you contribute?

BlakeAJackson · June 19, 2013, 11:14pm

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Dear Professor,
I have asked you kindly at least 10 times to show me where you got that quote from Brick.
You “quoted” him and used that to be a condescending dickhead to me in order to prove your point.
I have asked close to a dozen times where you got that quote from.
Are we to take your lack of a response to mean that you did in fact make that quote up?

Does this mean that you were blatantly lying in rest to further your argument and now that you were called on it your true colors of cowardice show?
No response, no ownership of your lying bullshit, nothing.
Is this the conclusion that we are left with?

With how many times you have shouted “your reading comprehension sucks”, “stop lying”, “address what was actually written” and all that I’m surprised that you didn’t take one bit of your own advice.

I am still waiting for a response but I won’t hold my breath.[/quote][/quote]

The discussion moved on. Mark the failure to acknowledge as a win if you want and move the fuck on. Everyone gets that you’re one of the cool kids. If they arn’t making you feel welcome enough then feel good to know outsiders still would lump you in with them.[/quote]

LOLOLOL[/quote]

Bro when my posts reach 4k your lol would show irony, but I honestly can say you and your friends are what are fucking up the threads. [/quote]
Serious question what do you contribute?
[/quote]

I would hope that my effort to show how I don’t like the bandwagon pitch and fork effort to attack one member as the problem in every thread would have more weight since I don’t post so much.

BlakeAJackson · June 19, 2013, 11:57pm

Ryancxb feel free to ask me any other questions to determine my qualifications and contributions to be sure its ok for me to be posting. You arrogance, young man, is abounding and astounding.

Serious question what % of your posts were of value to the community?

ryanbCXG · June 20, 2013, 12:08pm

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
Ryancxb feel free to ask me any other questions to determine my qualifications and contributions to be sure its ok for me to be posting. You arrogance, young man, is abounding and astounding.

Serious question what % of your posts were of value to the community? [/quote]

Feels like I am getting scolded. You posted pics well done. Good transformation. I wasn’t determining your qualifications to post. Don’t get so defensive. I merely wanted to know if you contribute anything

And I put out enough good posts until a shit storm happens then jump on that because its fun and never stops with or without me. Hopefully that will end soon

LoRez · June 20, 2013, 5:30pm

Steering things back on topic for a bit.

What can be done during a bulking/surplus/gaining phase to minimize future risk of heart disease?

gswork · June 20, 2013, 5:57pm

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Steering things back on topic for a bit.

What can be done during a bulking/surplus/gaining phase to minimize future risk of heart disease?[/quote]
what the evidence suggests is don’t get obese, eat healthy foods and stay active (ie lifestyle factors)

BlakeAJackson · June 20, 2013, 6:19pm

[quote]gswork wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Steering things back on topic for a bit.

What can be done during a bulking/surplus/gaining phase to minimize future risk of heart disease?[/quote]
what the evidence suggests is don’t get obese, eat healthy foods and stay active (ie lifestyle factors)[/quote]

While I agree with your general suggestion, there has been no evidence posted to support it.

None of those studies investigated people who train 5-6 days a week with intensity and maintain moderate cardio, while in a caloric surplus and reaching overweight or obese body fat levels, none of them measured the amount of visceral fat gain created under such conditions. Reason being it would most likely be very hard for people to achieve obese body fat percentage while doing such. In addition, you cannot take 5 different articles with 5 different control groups and using the findings of all to draw generalized conclusions about an issue. Well you can, but you shouldn’t and it is not sound scientific method.

(Seriously one was based on the diet of fat Korean males? what the fuck kind of diet do they even have? Tone is joking on this)

gswork · June 20, 2013, 6:32pm

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]gswork wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Steering things back on topic for a bit.

What can be done during a bulking/surplus/gaining phase to minimize future risk of heart disease?[/quote]
what the evidence suggests is don’t get obese, eat healthy foods and stay active (ie lifestyle factors)[/quote]

While I agree with your general suggestion, there has been no evidence posted to support it.

None of those studies investigated people who train 5-6 days a week with intensity and maintain moderate cardio, while in a caloric surplus and reaching overweight or obese body fat levels, none of them measured the amount of visceral fat gain created under such conditions. Reason being it would most likely be very hard for people to achieve obese body fat percentage while doing such. In addition, you cannot take 5 different articles with 5 different control groups and using the findings of all to draw generalized conclusions about an issue. Well you can, but you shouldn’t and it is not sound scientific method.

(Seriously one was based on the diet of fat Korean males? what the fuck kind of diet do they even have? Tone is joking on this) [/quote]
You’re right, should have stated the evidence suggested to me as it was supposition

It’s one of those reasonable sounding things that might ‘feel’ right but lack direct support like the idea that x% bf must be worse than x%-n where n is a small number

A suitable study would unlikely be taken as it would need to collect trained ppl over many years and isolate cvd outcomes and bf, who would do that?

Anyway you’re an interesting poster, science background?

LoRez · June 20, 2013, 6:35pm

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

[quote]gswork wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Steering things back on topic for a bit.

What can be done during a bulking/surplus/gaining phase to minimize future risk of heart disease?[/quote]
what the evidence suggests is don’t get obese, eat healthy foods and stay active (ie lifestyle factors)[/quote]

While I agree with your general suggestion, there has been no evidence posted to support it.

None of those studies investigated people who train 5-6 days a week with intensity and maintain moderate cardio, while in a caloric surplus and reaching overweight or obese body fat levels, none of them measured the amount of visceral fat gain created under such conditions. Reason being it would most likely be very hard for people to achieve obese body fat percentage while doing such. In addition, you cannot take 5 different articles with 5 different control groups and using the findings of all to draw generalized conclusions about an issue. Well you can, but you shouldn’t and it is not sound scientific method.

(Seriously one was based on the diet of fat Korean males? what the fuck kind of diet do they even have? Tone is joking on this) [/quote]

I agree it’s not sound science if you generalize like that. It really won’t be sound science until we have that exact study done with those exact parameters.

But until then, it does give us something to work with, and that actually does count for something.

In the context of this thread, it pretty much just sounds like you should try to keep your bodyfat as low as you can as long as you’re still maintaining the muscular growth you want. At one end of the spectrum, you’ll be too lean to gain weight (there’s a reactive pump log that demonstrates there might be some truth to this), at the other end of the spectrum, you’re not adding additional muscle with the calories, just fat… and that fat goes to all your body’s fat stores (the partitioning of which seems to be solely determined by genetics), and can theoretically increase your risk for heart disease.

So far I haven’t seen anything which can alter the partitioning of where the fat is added. If there was some method by which you could ONLY add subcutaneous fat, I think that would change the dynamics quite a bit.

BlakeAJackson · June 20, 2013, 6:37pm

Only by proxy. Married to a doctor (MD), so I am surrounded by MD’s and PHD’s all the time. I was a philosophy major but work in sales and operations.

BlakeAJackson · June 20, 2013, 6:42pm

[quote]LoRez wrote: