The protocol, if I remember correctly, that Anthony Roberts’ wrote about a few months back with these two compounds was to inject IM MGF immediately post workout into each side (left and right) of the worked muscle group, followed by 20mcgs of IGF-1 1 hour later, again to each side.
What’s your take on this Bill? Do you have any ideas as to how to incorporate MGF and IGF-1 to increase the number of fibers and/or help with soft tissue injury?
No, actually I don’t. It isn’t something I’ve worked with.
GH of course yields IGF-1. GH already can be used to a point of achieving extreme results; unfortunately when going to the extreme also yielding usually “GH potbelly,” and perhaps facial distortion or neuropathy.
There’s little that looks worse to me than a guy with GH potbelly and particularly if its obvious that the rest of the muscle development is from extreme GH usage. The only thing looking worse is having the acromegalic facial appearance going along with it.
So it’s an interesting question as to whether for the same level of results, IGF-1 might be equal in side effects, or less. I don’t know.
If there’s anyone that’s used IGF-1 but not GH, or not GH excessively (say, kept it at 2 IU/day or less) and has amazing muscular results similar to heavier GH use but without the potbelly, etc, I don’t know who that would be.
I’ve never been interested in performance-enhancing drug use to the point where I expect it seriously if even at all adversely affects health and so just out of personal interest for my own sake and for anyone seeking advice, it just seems questionable to me and certainly not necessary. But, it’s possible that some optimization may be found and demonstrated reproducibly to be better that uses one or more of these growth factors to better advantage than only (along with everything else) moderate dose GH.
can someone fill me in as to what exactly IGF and MGF actually do?
I know HGH makes you lean and can create new muscle cells making you huge. especially when combined with 'slin.
How exactly does IGF and MGF differ from that? What kind of results do they produce? Do you use them with 'slin as well? What are typical doses?
If this has already been posted before can someone point me to the spot?
Thanks.
FG
Hey Bill care to comment on how you feel one should run hgh without risking the sides and undesirable look you mentioned? BTW, have you seen any cases of people running into problems using hgh? I know this might sound stupid but I see very little problems with hgh vs peope who use/abuse aas.
Furious George, I can’t point you to a specific thread, but I know that if you search MGF or IGF you’ll run across some good info. Anthony Roberts wrote an article on how he’s using them at mesorx.com.
I’m particularly keen on IGF for its application in healing cartilage. I’ve heard of people with arthritic conditions and such having great results. I haven’t tried it yet, but that is my primary incentive with it.
From what I’ve read, the side effects that Bill mentioned can be maximally avoided by injecting only immediately post-workout into the worked muscle, but again, I haven’t used them yet.
These things scare me, and as such, they fascinate me too. The ability to locally induce new fiber growth is a big deal…
[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
Furious George, I can’t point you to a specific thread, but I know that if you search MGF or IGF you’ll run across some good info. Anthony Roberts wrote an article on how he’s using them at mesorx.com.
I’m particularly keen on IGF for its application in healing cartilage. I’ve heard of people with arthritic conditions and such having great results. I haven’t tried it yet, but that is my primary incentive with it.
From what I’ve read, the side effects that Bill mentioned can be maximally avoided by injecting only immediately post-workout into the worked muscle, but again, I haven’t used them yet.
These things scare me, and as such, they fascinate me too. The ability to locally induce new fiber growth is a big deal…[/quote]
There has been much discussion as to whether or not IGF real promotes site specific growth.
Sadly, there is only anecdotal evidence that injecting bilaterally into trained muscles immediately PWO promotes growth.
My guess is that it goes systemic, and will provide as much site specific growth as injecting AAS.
But I could be wrong.
thanks bro.
that was a pretty good article but no real life examples of gains from people using his protocol and no suggestions as far as stacks with gear for best synergies.
If I understood it correctly he hypothesizes that for best results you should inject (IM) on training days 80-100mcgs MGF immediately post workout in main trained muscles bilaterally and then 80-100mcgs Lr3IGF-1 an hour later.
Is this correct? He wasn’t real clear about doses.
Is there any reason I can’t just pin them both at the same time? why the hour delay?
Could I pin them with my gear as well or would it have to be seperate?
What is the aprox cost of adding MGF and IGF to a 3 month cycle?
Would it not make sense that just about every pro athlete is abusing slin, hGH, IGF, or MGF to some degree given that they aren’t tested for them?
Sorry to blitz you guys with all these questions but this stuff is pretty cool and I want to understand it better.
FG
[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
Furious George, I can’t point you to a specific thread, but I know that if you search MGF or IGF you’ll run across some good info. Anthony Roberts wrote an article on how he’s using them at mesorx.com.
I’m particularly keen on IGF for its application in healing cartilage. I’ve heard of people with arthritic conditions and such having great results. I haven’t tried it yet, but that is my primary incentive with it.
From what I’ve read, the side effects that Bill mentioned can be maximally avoided by injecting only immediately post-workout into the worked muscle, but again, I haven’t used them yet.
These things scare me, and as such, they fascinate me too. The ability to locally induce new fiber growth is a big deal…[/quote]
Bill is right. There is no clear proof that any of this stuff works, or if it does work, is any different from GH, in it’s side effects.
As for injecting into bilateral muscle groups, I don’t buy into this theory. No matter where you injected, the drug is going to be released into the blood stream and go systemic.
I can appreciate however the thought that igf-1 receptors are upregulated, in trained muscle, along with the fact that a freshly trained muscle will have more blood flow to it, meaning that more of the igf-1 or maximum igf-1 would be bound to the sites in the trained muscles, then other areas.
I just don’t see site injections as making any difference here.
On a side note, I will be giving these peptites a go in the next little while (sorry Cy). Since I have no history of GH use, I will be able to guage results a little better.
Could anyone speak to the increased cancer risk that a HGH or IGF-1 user would face? It seems like a horrible idea to use these GFs, but I’m still an undergrad and may be misinformed.
[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
Could anyone speak to the increased cancer risk that a HGH or IGF-1 user would face? It seems like a horrible idea to use these GFs, but I’m still an undergrad and may be misinformed.[/quote]
The age management folks found no evidence of any increased risk for cancer. And there is some evidence that suggested that the up-regulated immune system is better able to eliminate irregular cells that could become cancerous.
In a similar fashion, TRT does not cause prostate cancers and may also reduce BPH.
Let me just say, I have not tried GH or IGF. It seems to be pretty split online as to weather people think IGF works or not.
There are several guys at my gym who have used IGF with supposed great results. Both claim increase in LBM, joint/muscle pain diminished, and strength energy levels up. They are using it on cycle as part of a stack with test, and say it works great.
Now, these guys were excited enough about it to make me want to try it, and I want to wait till I am no longer growing with just AAS. Alot of people have said it works great in PCT, which I also think makes sense. Hopefully, some more people will chime in here.
On a side note, thanks to Bill for giving a good reply to a good question.
Monopoly
[quote]KSman wrote:
HoratioSandoval wrote:
Could anyone speak to the increased cancer risk that a HGH or IGF-1 user would face? It seems like a horrible idea to use these GFs, but I’m still an undergrad and may be misinformed.
The age management folks found no evidence of any increased risk for cancer. And there is some evidence that suggested that the up-regulated immune system is better able to eliminate irregular cells that could become cancerous.
In a similar fashion, TRT does not cause prostate cancers and may also reduce BPH.[/quote]
I’ll be giving it a go soon, and rest assured I’ll post my experiences up.
Oh, we will sure rest assured.
Yo P22 and T-Nick, what is your dosing protocol you plan for these?
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
Yo P22 and T-Nick, what is your dosing protocol you plan for these?[/quote]
Im going low dose, probably 1 or 2 IU’s a day 7 days a week, I have to speak again to my doc and ask him what dosage to be exact.
Ive been doing some further research on the net and have found alot fo people using GH that followed a cycling protocol, 5 on 2 off and an every other day cycling. I will run these options by my doc and see what he thinks.
I tried a short run of peg-mgf and igf a few weeks back using different protocol. I did 130mcg mgf day before a workout and IGF 40mcg immediately PW, all twice per week. I didn’t notice anything immediate from the mgf but I’m assuming it was the insulin mimicking effects of the IGF that made my recovery feel like double speed.
I didn’t run it long enough to notice much in the way of gains- it was PCT- though the purported benefits aren’t supposed to be manifest immediately anyway.
I do like the idea of the small dose, twice weekly, immediately PW protocol for the IGF better in general than the heavier and more often dosages since in theory at least it will catch the skeletal muscle receptors maximally upregulated, and minimize medium term down regulation.
[quote]etaco wrote:
I tried a short run of peg-mgf and igf a few weeks back using different protocol. I did 130mcg mgf day before a workout and IGF 40mcg immediately PW, all twice per week. I didn’t notice anything immediate from the mgf but I’m assuming it was the insulin mimicking effects of the IGF that made my recovery feel like double speed.
I didn’t run it long enough to notice much in the way of gains- it was PCT- though the purported benefits aren’t supposed to be manifest immediately anyway.
I do like the idea of the small dose, twice weekly, immediately PW protocol for the IGF better in general than the heavier and more often dosages since in theory at least it will catch the skeletal muscle receptors maximally upregulated, and minimize medium term down regulation. [/quote]
At this point one thing we know is we don’t really know anything. But i lean toward this approach as well. IGF immediately post workout bilaterally 40 -50 mcgs max on workout days only 4 or 5 days for me. The other great point that is so often missed and drives me freakin nuts is GH, IGF, and the like are long term investment drugs. You are attemptimg to cause recruitment and growth of new muscle tissue. Do not look to gain a bunch of size during use like popping a bunch of drol. The point is to create new muscle tissue that can then be stimulated to grow and mature thru continued resistance training and use of AAS. I believe the mega dosing protocols lead to great gains long term as well the problem is they lead to great gains everywhere including enlarging the organs and that lovely protruded gut look.
[quote]morepain wrote:
At this point one thing we know is we don’t really know anything. But i lean toward this approach as well. IGF immediately post workout bilaterally 40 -50 mcgs max on workout days only 4 or 5 days for me. The other great point that is so often missed and drives me freakin nuts is GH, IGF, and the like are long term investment drugs. You are attemptimg to cause recruitment and growth of new muscle tissue. Do not look to gain a bunch of size during use like popping a bunch of drol. The point is to create new muscle tissue that can then be stimulated to grow and mature thru continued resistance training and use of AAS. I believe the mega dosing protocols lead to great gains long term as well the problem is they lead to great gains everywhere including enlarging the organs and that lovely protruded gut look.
[/quote]
I read a fair amount before I dove in but the protocol by grunt76 that appears on several boards seemed the most reasonable for someone like me looking for a little boost as opposed to the protocols geared towards guys seeking to be bigger than Ronnie Coleman, regardless of the sides.
Since the LR3 IGF is stable in solution for a long period my plan is to just run a few weeks every few months until it runs out. If this ends up being a significantly more productive year than last, then I’ll assume it works.