Does this stuff really work? Is it illegal to purchase?
thanks
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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Yes it works on most people but there are a small number of users who seem to be ‘non-responders’. Only a very few though, lets say less than 1%…
[/quote]
talking of “number” how much it works?
i mean how much a serious lifter can gain from a cycle of IGF?
20pounds? more? less? more quality? or rough mass?
[quote]cadav wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Yes it works on most people but there are a small number of users who seem to be ‘non-responders’. Only a very few though, lets say less than 1%…
talking of “number” how much it works?
i mean how much a serious lifter can gain from a cycle of IGF?
20pounds? more? less? more quality? or rough mass?
[/quote]
That sall depends on your goals. Some huys use it to cut, some use it in conjunction with PCT, others use it to bulk.
I think your diet and you goals are the determining factor - just like with AAS.
I would like to hear more from you on this bushy. Most of the anecdotal evidence on igf seems less than spectacular. It reminds me of when GH first became popular and everyone talked about these incredible gains and totally changing their physique, in reality these pipe dreams never seemed to pan out in real life. Most of the logs i see on igf show no real progress that could not be had without including it in the cycle. That being said with the price coming down i have thought of trying it myself for the first hand knowledge but i don’t expect much really.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
That sall depends on your goals. Some huys use it to cut, some use it in conjunction with PCT, others use it to bulk.
I think your diet and you goals are the determining factor - just like with AAS.
[/quote]
my prime goal is to become “huge”
i have lost too many years of good training and i want to get the “edge” now.
i am at my first cycle (after 3.5 years of training and 1 of research). In september i change my diet with the help of a doc. My nearest plan is to cut dowb bf under at 10% or under (i have to lose at least 10kg of fat, without losing muscle i mean…)
so my plan is to end my current cycle (which i have done to “research” and to “understand”) and than slowly start to cut down. During that cutting phase i want to preserve all my muscle so i plan to use a bit of testo. and may be some IGF to help cutting
it sounds really intresting bushy
do you know of any research on IGF and neuro-tissue improvement?
i have a really bad damage to optical nerve. and im wondering if IGF can slow down the “rust” 
Here is a thread from somewhere else…the debate is on whether the IGF effects are local or systemic. I thought it was pretty straight forward on how it all works and how one might use IGF…my interest is in using it after my rotaor cuff repair.
!st poster - If you want to use IGF for localization growth get some rhIGF-1. It binds to the wound only and does not go into the bloodstream. This helps repair the injection wound and makes new cells in that area only. While Long R3 IGF binds somewhat to the would then makes its way to the blood stream causing growth throughout the body…
Response - This is false.
The difference between rhIGF-1 and Long R3 is that the Long R3 does not get bound by binding protein and thus is 100% active whereas you do lose a great % of whatever amount of rhIGF-1 you inject to IGFBP3.
While technically it is true that if you inject a large amount of the rhIGF-1 it will have almost only localized effect, it is so because the “excess” that does not bind to cells in the muscle in which it is injected is rapidly bound up by IGFBP3 and thus rendered unusable by cells elsewhere. It would be much much better in such a case to inject a smaller amount and not have ANY excess that gets bound up by IGFBP’s.
And while technically it is true that if you inject a large amount of Long R3 IGF-1 in a muscle, it will first bind to the nearest available receptor, and spread, binding to more and more receptors and not be bound up and neutralized by IGFBP’s, meaning that it will travel all through your body and grow all kinds of tissue. This is called the systemic effect of IGF-1. Therein lies the only distinction in terms of BOTH half-life and localized/systemic effect between the Long and the human varieties.
What does all this mean?
It means that technically, for the part of the muscle in which you inject, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN rhIGF-1 and Long R3 IGF-1. They both have the EXACT SAME LOCAL EFFECT. But rhIGF-1 gets neutralized quick, whereas Long R3 gets to float around until it finds a receptor.
What does all this tell us?
It tells us many things. Let’s start with what we want, then see where that leads us. What do we want? Bigger muscles. More muscle cells that we will later grow with exercise and gear. A pump? Fatloss? Yeah, right. You can get a pump with a good “pump” product for a quarter of the price of IGF-1. Fatloss? Clen/Alb and T3/T4 will give it to you again at a fraction of the price of IGF-1. More muscle cells, you can ONLY get with IGF-1 (and MGF too). Nothing else will give it to you and if you are using IGF-1 for anything else, you are misusing it. More muscle cells is CLEARLY the best use for IGF-1.
What does all this tell us?
It tells us that we should use IGF-1 to make more muscle cells. It’s the only thing that can give it to us and more cells is more growth, which is our goal.
What does this tell us?
The localized effects are the best. Long R3 IGF-1 can float around your body and attach to anything that has IGF-1 receptors. The intestines is the place that has the MOST IGF-1 receptors and it also happens to have lots of blood flow. Injecting large amounts of Long R3 ENSURES that you are growing your intestines. Remember, more cells doesn’t equal more size right away. Wait a bit, and see them grow.
What does this mean?
It means that if you are injecting upwards of 50mcg of IGF-1 you are growing your intestines. Yes you are also growing muscle and you may be getting leaner in the process. Your waistline looks trimmer. Nice. A few months down the line, your new intestinal cells will be of their full adult size and you will have acquired the perma-bloat look. Guaranteed. Maybe not Coleman-size perma-gut, but SOME perma-gut and it will keep growing. Guaranteed. Just as your new muscle cells can keep growing and growing IF you pin IGF-1 in a way to maximize new muscle cell creation.
HOW?
Heavy resistance exercise strongly upregulates the IGF-1 receptors on the stressed muscle. That means that after your workout, the muscles you trained are at their BEST STATE for receiving IGF-1 and growing many new cells. That’s when you pin. This upregulation of IGF-1 receptor during exercise is short-lived. The science is not readily available so I am unable to quote a paper, but within 60 minutes of the last set, the receptors are back at baseline. This means, PIN IMMEDIATELY POSTWORKOUT and you will get your new muscle cells. PIN A LESSER AMOUNT and you will get only new MUSCLE cells out of your IGF-1. Pin more and you will grow other things, including stuff you wish you didn’t grow.
What else?
All the talk about IGF-1’s half-life is UTTER BULLSHIT. It is technicality without any real-world applicability. Yes rhIGF-1 has a “short half-life”. But what does it mean? It means that it is either taken up by a cell receptor or bound up by a binding protein in short order. Does it mean that 20 minutes after the IGF-1 is pinned you should pin more because “blood levels are low”? Not by any means. Once it’s activated a cell receptor, that’s where it initiates a cellular response that will take about 72 hours to be complete and which will consume lots of energy. So the half-life of 20 minutes means NOTHING BECAUSE THE EFFECTS STILL LAST 72 HOURS ALL THE SAME.
What about Long R3 IGF-1?
Yes technically it has a longer half-life. Why? Because it either gets rapidly taken up by a cell receptor or… Just floats around. Until it can find a receptor or is destroyed by the immune system or some other metabolizing mechanism. BUT THIS MEANS NOTHING!!! Why does it mean nothing? BECAUSE once it attaches to a cell receptor, it initiates a cellular response that will take about 72 hours to be complete. THIS CELLULAR RESPONSE IS ALL THAT INTERESTS US. Not “blood levels”, that’s utter bullshit. As a matter of fact, the one thing YOU DO NOT WANT IS FOR BLOOD LEVELS OF IGF-1 TO BE ELEVATED. Because that means you are growing everywhere and this means first and foremost your guts. Sure it feels like it’s working while you’re on. Just you wait 9 months and see that you look like Craig Kovacs. Bravo, you now have the biggest intestines in the world.
Half-life means nothing. Localized vs systemic = bad argument. You want localized effects. Period. You get them by pinning immediately postworkout. Period. End of argument.
OMFG I am so tired of all the misinformation floating around on IGF-1. Look at the length of this post. Did you read all of it? You should, you know.
NICE 40!
VERY NICE!
SO what do you think 40 mcg immediately post workout and only on the days your train? ie. 4-5 days a week. Any point in taking it on the days you dont’ train?
I’ve used it in the past for pct, while on cycle, and just as a standalone. The only thing I’d notice is some possible hypo-glycemia if my carbs where too low. Pumps that would often end workouts short as I could not do ANYTHING. Some lethargy and I slept well at night. Increase in the look of muscle density and hardness while looking full.
I don’t think I ever went above 60 mcgs and probably never would bother to for the price reason. And after hearing what 40 has to say the internal organ growth reason is ahead of the price reason. IMO the price still kinda sucks for what you get. And I have quite a few good sources price/quality wise. Pct is the only time I’ll ever bother using it in the future.
sooooo
long story short (ie IGF for dummies)
- take less IGF1
- take it immediately after WO
- so, from point 2, take it only on wo days
but how long should it be taken?
is tha only parameter that i can’t find in the post of “mighty” 40
mhhh i’m feel ready to put some new cell in play 
Most people will say 4 weeks or 6 weeks and aftet that it stops working as well. I think that’s a good idea for both cost and just not really wanting to be on something that has so many unknowns about it for that long. Although I’d like to hear what others have to say.
Glad the info was useful. I found this in my research on HGH vs IGF for a rehab cycle after my cuff surgery. This guy seems to know his stuff and claims he has been using/researching IGF since the mid 90’s. If you want the board PM me.
I have no idea on cycle length other than antecdodal info on the various boards, 4-6 weeks w/a break of the same it seems. If I run it, I will use a very low dose, 20 MCGs at 6 weeks after physical therapy along with Test/DECA/VAR/ Alflutop.
About the dossage. What if you only use it a few times a week? For example in my case as an athlete for recovery purposes. Does anyone know what kind of cycling is invloved there? because taking a month off month on approach would mean that there is no accelerated recovery for 4 week stretches. Is it possible to stay on with 1 day on 2 day off approach ect?
Sure. Training consists of Phases
Phase 1 conditioning: Weights running general strength
Phase 2 specific training: weights and speed/competition specific training
Phase 3 Competition
general strength no weights low volume workouts with either a competition or intense workout every 10-14 days.
My training changes as you can see over the phases which make up around 3-4 months each. Weights are always done after training i.e running drills and plyos etc…but the weights play less of a roll as the season progresses. My goals would be to maximize strength in the Phase 1-2. Phase 3 I could see IGF1 and Insulin usage being more ‘tailored’. and less frequent as the volume is decreased in this period.
Despite the different phases I would generalize and say a standard week entails 2-3 ‘hard workouts’. this trend lessens as I get closer to the competative period and taper down.
I could see during Phase 1 and 2 need ing 1-4 PWO injections. Phase 3 maybe 1-2 with one or two weeks of almost daily use in prep for the peak of the season. This is the idea as it stands of course learning how to put this all together is where I need the help…
As a side not the training burns a lot of calories and is demand on the nervous system at times (not on a daily basis) The training also incorporates anarobic/aronic and hypertrophy/plyo metric training. I hope this helps give everyone a better idea
Thanks Bush!
I would say I fall closer to the hunter mentality. That is the ideal state for me. The suggestions seem right on for me. What kind of breaks do I need from insulin? throughout any of the stages? People suggest time off from everyday use so I am not sure