Bigorexia.

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Angus, you are wrong about this for one very simple reason. Every person who is actually passionate about bodybuilding and wants to exceed in competition compares themselves to the pro’s. When compared to them, we ARE small.

You’re assuming that most top end professional bodybuilders have healthy mind sets. Even guys like Ronnie Coleman who have BMI’s in the 40’s are constantly trying to get bigger no matter the cost. If the trend continued to where the pros weighed 400 pounds at 5% body fat, do you think those guys would be that much more dedicated? Or do you think there would be an underlying mental image problem?

Bigger is not always better. That should make sense to anyone.[/quote]

Gee, the massive reduction in weight of many of the top guys lately (like Dennis James and others) would seem to imply that their actions are to win. None of them seem to be just gaining size for no reason at all like you seem to be implying. If weighing 300lbs leads to more endorsements and more exposure, then they succeeded.

Are you saying that shooting for an extreme equals a mental disorder?

No one would have ever weighed 230lbs on a stage if no one ever pushed the limits.

It is hilarious how people like you do not carry this same mentality over to the Olympics. By your own logic, everyone trying to break a new record has a mental disorder because they are doing so “no matter the cost”.

Anyone who is at the top of their game is there because they pushed for an extreme and made sacrifices, yet bodybuilding seems to be the only one where little guys feel vindicated in noting a disorder.

42

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Bottom line: If you’re not happy with yourself when you working hard and eating right, you have a problem. What’s the point of work if you’re not happy while working or at least afterword?[/quote]

Bullshit. Anyone “happy with themselves” would never strive to be better. They would be complacent, much like most people who don’t ever reach any new level in life. My goal is to be better in as many of my areas of my life as possible. Settling for the way things are is why most people get stuck in a rut. If you are not traveling forward you will eventually find yourself behind.

Many of us can be happy in the process while still noting areas of improvement, and again, using the guy in this video as evidence of anything is retarded. Unless you have a diagnosis in your hand from a licensed professional, any lay person trying to arbitrarily lay ground work for what defines the disorder should stop.

43

[quote]amphibian wrote:
Body Dysmorphia is not just wanting to improve, just as being happy doesn’t make you manic, dieting doesn’t mean you’re anorexic and being sad doesn’t mean that you have clinical depression. The extreme form of the behavior is the problem and when it interferes significant;y with your ability to function, and causes you emotional distress…that is where it starts to become more of a disorder than simply a choice.

People that suffer from mental disorders are often stuck in behaviors that make their lives a living hell.
[/quote]

I agree in a sense, but anyone who’s ever succeeded at doing something radical has exhibited extreme behavior and near obsession with achieving the goal. To do something like break a world record (or 7 ala Phelps), jump higher than anyone has ever jumped, or lift more than anyone has ever lifted requires an extreme behavior. Which, to “normal” people, looks like an impaired functioning, but is not.

As to whether the guy in the vid has bigorexia, I don’t know. I’ve seen this term thrown about very carelessly though and it pisses me off.

44

This has just become ridiculous. The problem is that people who are not familiar with bodybuilding, or don’t practice it themselves (most), will tend to think “bigorexic” when they see a 17"+ arm, when they see someone benching 315+, or even if someone who just got in the gym grew past them in just 6 months, making evident years of laziness. I’ve seen it myself when I was in highschool, they put these announcements in the bathrooms about bigorexia, and when they saw me they remembered. In general, these kinds of programs give an even worst image to bodybuilding. When I see someone raising a business I don’t think “he suffers from grandiose delusion”.

45

[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
This has just become ridiculous. The problem is that people who are not familiar with bodybuilding, or don’t practice it themselves (most), will tend to think “bigorexic” when they see a 17"+ arm, when they see someone benching 315+, or even if someone who just got in the gym grew past them in just 6 months, making evident years of laziness. I’ve seen it myself when I was in highschool, they put these announcements in the bathrooms about bigorexia, and when they saw me they remembered. In general, these kinds of programs give an even worst image to bodybuilding. When I see someone raising a business I don’t think “he suffers from grandiose delusion”.[/quote]

…which is why the term itself is bogus. If they were honest, this term would encompass ANY athletic pursuit where someone gives everything they have to be better than most people ever will and it would specifically apply to people destroying their lives in some way. Instead, they ONLY apply this to body image…as if it is ok for someone to give up their social life completely for medical school…or to win a Gold Medal at the Olympics…or to make over 1 mill in the stock market…but the moment someone tries to get 20" arms they must have a mental disorder.

Most of these guys do NOT truly see themselves as TINY. They may not recognize how they look compared to more average people, but that is because they do NOT compare themselves to average people. They compare themselves to a goal that might be considered almost cartoonish to some people. That doesn’t make the goal bad nor does it imply a true mental disorder simply because Johnny doesn’t think he is anywhere near big enough despite stretching a XXL shirt.

If Phelps can be mentally stable for spending all of that time training in a pool, then Ronnie Fucking Coleman can be mentally stable for weighing over 300lbs and still lifting with a goal to gain.

46

Here’s one of my favourite quotes, which I think fits in well with the discussion here…

“He who would do some great thing in this short life, must apply himself to the work with such a concentration of his forces as to the idle spectators, who live only to amuse themselves, looks like insanity.”
John Foster

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
This has just become ridiculous. The problem is that people who are not familiar with bodybuilding, or don’t practice it themselves (most), will tend to think “bigorexic” when they see a 17"+ arm, when they see someone benching 315+, or even if someone who just got in the gym grew past them in just 6 months, making evident years of laziness. I’ve seen it myself when I was in highschool, they put these announcements in the bathrooms about bigorexia, and when they saw me they remembered. In general, these kinds of programs give an even worst image to bodybuilding. When I see someone raising a business I don’t think “he suffers from grandiose delusion”.

…which is why the term itself is bogus. If they were honest, this term would encompass ANY athletic pursuit where someone gives everything they have to be better than most people ever will and it would specifically apply to people destroying their lives in some way. Instead, they ONLY apply this to body image…as if it is ok for someone to give up their social life completely for medical school…or to win a Gold Medal at the Olympics…or to make over 1 mill in the stock market…but the moment someone tries to get 20" arms they must have a mental disorder.

Most of these guys do NOT truly see themselves as TINY.[/quote] I gotta strengthen this statement; I percieve that people don’t look at me as if I was an average individual, at my stage of development I’ve noticed that some other guys compare to me, and I get looks from the girls, which I think is cool, but doesn’t let go my longer term goal, which is the quest for more development. So summarized, I know I’m not average, I know my size, but I know what I want.

[quote]They may not recognize how they look compared to more average people, but that is because they do NOT compare themselves to average people. They compare themselves to a goal that might be considered almost cartoonish to some people. That doesn’t make the goal bad nor does it imply a true mental disorder simply because Johnny doesn’t think he is anywhere near big enough despite stretching a XXL shirt.[/quote] the thing is that people are judging as if the person being judged had the same point of view as theirs, which makes judgement inherently wrong in this case.

I can get to think another reason for this. A large body image can subconsciously mean a menace to other people, searching for explanations that make them feel better about themselves. So, when you see a record breaker, let’s say Takeru Kobayashi: even though he has some muscles and PLs now, you think “that’s awesome”. But when you see a pro, the first thing that comes to your mind is “holy shit, I look like a little child standing besides him”, so the mind gotta look for an explanation, and I think one of the things that has worked better for most average folks is “poor guy, he must have no testicles, freak…”. But I think that if you wanna be freaky sizewise that only proves that you’re a looser or you have way to go. That doesn’t allow the other people to tell shit to bodybuilding oriented individuals.

48

[quote]mr popular wrote:
In my opinion it becomes offensive when a video like this one is made:

When it pegs people that just want to improve themselves as ALL having “muscle dysmorphia”, and then a fat sloppy dude in an armchair can sit and talk about how low their self esteem is.

Are we living in opposite world?[/quote]

Damn, that spanish guy didn’t think his 16" arms were big enough and wanted to get them bigger? What a friggin psycho. They need to get him on those meds ASAP.

49

[quote]PJ84 wrote:
Here’s one of my favourite quotes, which I think fits in well with the discussion here…

“He who would do some great thing in this short life, must apply himself to the work with such a concentration of his forces as to the idle spectators, who live only to amuse themselves, looks like insanity.”
John Foster [/quote]

QUOTED FOR FUCKING TRUTH.

50

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Angus, you are wrong about this for one very simple reason. Every person who is actually passionate about bodybuilding and wants to exceed in competition compares themselves to the pro’s. When compared to them, we ARE small.

You’re assuming that most top end professional bodybuilders have healthy mind sets. Even guys like Ronnie Coleman who have BMI’s in the 40’s are constantly trying to get bigger no matter the cost. If the trend continued to where the pros weighed 400 pounds at 5% body fat, do you think those guys would be that much more dedicated? Or do you think there would be an underlying mental image problem?

Bigger is not always better. That should make sense to anyone.[/quote]

First of all no, I’m not assuming that at all. I don’t need that assumption for my point.

Second of all, how would you even know that? How many pro’s have you had this conversation with? Ummm none. In case you forgot…Ronnie competed in like 2003 at 296 lbs, then the mandate came down to streamline the waist, and guess what the next year he showed up at around 270. So, your theory is completely wrong.

51

Why is everyone focused on what people perceive of body builders and ignore that the disorder even exist. Forget the guys on the videos, does anyone even believe this disorder is real?.. It’s more than wanting to become bigger, individuals who are diagnosed suffer from extreme anxiety if they miss a meal or a workout. It’s more than just setting an alarm to make sure you don’t miss a meal, or keeping a log book, or going to bed thinking about the gym. These guys cannot function normally otherwise. This is more than dedication, it’s like OCD.

I mean if i miss a workout or i’m under my desired caloric intake for the day i get a lil paranoid that i will lose weight, but i am able to function just fine… Anyway for the sake of this thread anorexia and bigorexia do not exist.

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Schlenkatank wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Angus, you are wrong about this for one very simple reason. Every person who is actually passionate about bodybuilding and wants to exceed in competition compares themselves to the pro’s. When compared to them, we ARE small.

You’re assuming that most top end professional bodybuilders have healthy mind sets. Even guys like Ronnie Coleman who have BMI’s in the 40’s are constantly trying to get bigger no matter the cost. If the trend continued to where the pros weighed 400 pounds at 5% body fat, do you think those guys would be that much more dedicated? Or do you think there would be an underlying mental image problem?

Bigger is not always better. That should make sense to anyone.

Gee, the massive reduction in weight of many of the top guys lately (like Dennis James and others) would seem to imply that their actions are to win. None of them seem to be just gaining size for no reason at all like you seem to be implying. If weighing 300lbs leads to more endorsements and more exposure, then they succeeded.

Are you saying that shooting for an extreme equals a mental disorder?

No one would have ever weighed 230lbs on a stage if no one ever pushed the limits.

It is hilarious how people like you do not carry this same mentality over to the Olympics. By your own logic, everyone trying to break a new record has a mental disorder because they are doing so “no matter the cost”.

Anyone who is at the top of their game is there because they pushed for an extreme and made sacrifices, yet bodybuilding seems to be the only one where little guys feel vindicated in noting a disorder.[/quote]

If you happen to think endorsements and exposure are the trappings of success, good luck towards you’re destination.

Am I saying shooting for an extreme is a mental disorder? No. I’m saying many of the professional bodybuilders have their priorities set in a certain way. I see guys like Jay who never seem to smile or show emotion. Is that a way to fully appreciate ones life? Does success mean being number 1? I know from personal experience success is always more complicated.

In the olympics I see lots of smiling faces. Most people understand what it means to be there. I see women and men from countries tiny in comparison to the juggernauts like the U.S. A girl from Iraq ran the 100 meter dash and came in dead last by seconds, was she a failure? Maybe you should ask her.

If you’re never happy, what’s the point of achieving anything? The trick is to appreciate happiness in the right ways: to feel devotion, to enjoy competition, to love the sound of you’re feet gracing the track, and maybe feel a sense of uniqueness when you compete. Anyone who really reaches the top of there game is there because they love doing what they do.

53

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Schlenkatank wrote:

Bottom line: If you’re not happy with yourself when you working hard and eating right, you have a problem. What’s the point of work if you’re not happy while working or at least afterword?

Bullshit. Anyone “happy with themselves” would never strive to be better. They would be complacent, much like most people who don’t ever reach any new level in life. My goal is to be better in as many of my areas of my life as possible. Settling for the way things are is why most people get stuck in a rut. If you are not traveling forward you will eventually find yourself behind.

Many of us can be happy in the process while still noting areas of improvement, and again, using the guy in this video as evidence of anything is retarded. Unless you have a diagnosis in your hand from a licensed professional, any lay person trying to arbitrarily lay ground work for what defines the disorder should stop.[/quote]

You don’t understand me. If you work hard, you get better. If you like yourself when you work hard and train right, you will work as hard as possible. Where is the failure in my logic? Joyful people are full of energy, not complacency sir.

54

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

If you happen to think endorsements and exposure are the trappings of success, good luck towards you’re destination. [/quote]

What? At least be clever if you are going to try at all. To a bodybuilder, YES, endorsements and exposure would sort of be the fucking goal. I am not sure why you even related that to me. My career has nothing to do with bodybuilding.

[quote]

Am I saying shooting for an extreme is a mental disorder? No. I’m saying many of the professional bodybuilders have their priorities set in a certain way. I see guys like Jay who never seem to smile or show emotion. Is that a way to fully appreciate ones life? Does success mean being number 1? I know from personal experience success is always more complicated.[/quote]

Are you 15? Damn it, I will not be caught on To Catch a Predator because someone let class out early!!!

Jay smiles in EVERY pose so when are these times you have met the man and noticed that NOTHING made him happy? You live with him? Stalk him from across the street? Smiles equal mental stability and happiness?

Since when?

[quote]

In the olympics I see lots of smiling faces. Most people understand what it means to be there. I see women and men from countries tiny in comparison to the juggernauts like the U.S. A girl from Iraq ran the 100 meter dash and came in dead last by seconds, was she a failure? Maybe you should ask her.[/quote]

WTF?

I knew someone was going to fill out that Vicodin prescription I threw in the trash. I did NOT mean 23 refills.

[quote]

If you’re never happy, what’s the point of achieving anything? The trick is to appreciate happiness in the right ways: to feel devotion, to enjoy competition, to love the sound of you’re feet gracing the track, and maybe feel a sense of uniqueness when you compete. Anyone who really reaches the top of there game is there because they love doing what they do.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but did you really just try to claim that bodybuilders aren’t happy enough to not be biogorexic? Please come back and explain your position…or don’t.

55

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Schlenkatank wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Angus, you are wrong about this for one very simple reason. Every person who is actually passionate about bodybuilding and wants to exceed in competition compares themselves to the pro’s. When compared to them, we ARE small.

You’re assuming that most top end professional bodybuilders have healthy mind sets. Even guys like Ronnie Coleman who have BMI’s in the 40’s are constantly trying to get bigger no matter the cost. If the trend continued to where the pros weighed 400 pounds at 5% body fat, do you think those guys would be that much more dedicated? Or do you think there would be an underlying mental image problem?

Bigger is not always better. That should make sense to anyone.

First of all no, I’m not assuming that at all. I don’t need that assumption for my point.

Second of all, how would you even know that? How many pro’s have you had this conversation with? Ummm none. In case you forgot…Ronnie competed in like 2003 at 296 lbs, then the mandate came down to streamline the waist, and guess what the next year he showed up at around 270. So, your theory is completely wrong.[/quote]

Maybe I am. So it goes.

56

[quote]angus_beef wrote:
Why is everyone focused on what people perceive of body builders and ignore that the disorder even exist. Forget the guys on the videos, does anyone even believe this disorder is real?.. [/quote]

Yes. Even Prof acknowledges it’s real. He, me, and a bunch of others just hate that it is applied indiscriminately, and it pisses us off.

It’s like ADHD. Does it exist? Yes. Are there people who need help with it? Yes. Is everyone and their dog currently (mis-)diagnosed with it and given medication they don’t need for a condition they don’t really have? You bet your ass.

57

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Schlenkatank wrote:

If you happen to think endorsements and exposure are the trappings of success, good luck towards you’re destination.

What? At least be clever if you are going to try at all. To a bodybuilder, YES, endorsements and exposure would sort of be the fucking goal. I am not sure why you even related that to me. My career has nothing to do with bodybuilding.

Am I saying shooting for an extreme is a mental disorder? No. I’m saying many of the professional bodybuilders have their priorities set in a certain way. I see guys like Jay who never seem to smile or show emotion. Is that a way to fully appreciate ones life? Does success mean being number 1? I know from personal experience success is always more complicated.

Are you 15? Damn it, I will not be caught on To Catch a Predator because someone let class out early!!!

Jay smiles in EVERY pose so when are these times you have met the man and noticed that NOTHING made him happy? You live with him? Stalk him from across the street? Smiles equal mental stability and happiness?

Since when?

In the olympics I see lots of smiling faces. Most people understand what it means to be there. I see women and men from countries tiny in comparison to the juggernauts like the U.S. A girl from Iraq ran the 100 meter dash and came in dead last by seconds, was she a failure? Maybe you should ask her.

WTF?

I knew someone was going to fill out that Vicodin prescription I threw in the trash. I did NOT mean 23 refills.

If you’re never happy, what’s the point of achieving anything? The trick is to appreciate happiness in the right ways: to feel devotion, to enjoy competition, to love the sound of you’re feet gracing the track, and maybe feel a sense of uniqueness when you compete. Anyone who really reaches the top of there game is there because they love doing what they do.

I’m sorry, but did you really just try to claim that bodybuilders aren’t happy enough to not be biogorexic? Please come back and explain your position…or don’t.[/quote]

I’m 19. I’m someone who knows enough about success in my life to mean what I say with confidence, and frankly I don’t care if you disagree. Ones things clear, you flip you’re fucking protein shake if someone questions your beliefs. You are neither wise nor pleasant so i don’t wish to talk to you.

You’re a very rude person and not much of a man if you handle disagreement with petty insults. I have never liked your disposition on this forum or you’re tendency to think you’re the king of shit mountain (with all respect to T-Nation). Every time I have respectfully disagreed with you, you make a point of playing dumb and/or saying “are you fucking serious, bullshit”. That is not a debate sir, it is how you become an internet LOSER. How many posts do you have again???

I’ll end this quick. I’m happy, I work really really hard, and I think I know what I’m talking about. If you’re never happy with yourself when your working hard to achieve your goals, you have a problem that may need therapy or medical treatment.

58

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
If you happen to think endorsements and exposure are the trappings of success, good luck towards you’re destination.

Am I saying shooting for an extreme is a mental disorder? No. I’m saying many of the professional bodybuilders have their priorities set in a certain way. I see guys like Jay who never seem to smile or show emotion. Is that a way to fully appreciate ones life? Does success mean being number 1? I know from personal experience success is always more complicated.

In the olympics I see lots of smiling faces. Most people understand what it means to be there. I see women and men from countries tiny in comparison to the juggernauts like the U.S. A girl from Iraq ran the 100 meter dash and came in dead last by seconds, was she a failure? Maybe you should ask her.

If you’re never happy, what’s the point of achieving anything? The trick is to appreciate happiness in the right ways: to feel devotion, to enjoy competition, to love the sound of you’re feet gracing the track, and maybe feel a sense of uniqueness when you compete. Anyone who really reaches the top of there game is there because they love doing what they do.[/quote]

I honestly have no idea what your position is. You read like you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. There probably are some bodybuilders who are unhappy but that has nothing to do with qua bodybuilding and everything to do with the entirety of their mentalities toward life in general. There are unhappy people in all walks of life. Most people live unfulfilling lives for that matter. Has nothing to do with bodybuilding.

59

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Schlenkatank wrote:
If you happen to think endorsements and exposure are the trappings of success, good luck towards you’re destination.

Am I saying shooting for an extreme is a mental disorder? No. I’m saying many of the professional bodybuilders have their priorities set in a certain way. I see guys like Jay who never seem to smile or show emotion. Is that a way to fully appreciate ones life? Does success mean being number 1? I know from personal experience success is always more complicated.

In the olympics I see lots of smiling faces. Most people understand what it means to be there. I see women and men from countries tiny in comparison to the juggernauts like the U.S. A girl from Iraq ran the 100 meter dash and came in dead last by seconds, was she a failure? Maybe you should ask her.

If you’re never happy, what’s the point of achieving anything? The trick is to appreciate happiness in the right ways: to feel devotion, to enjoy competition, to love the sound of you’re feet gracing the track, and maybe feel a sense of uniqueness when you compete. Anyone who really reaches the top of there game is there because they love doing what they do.

I honestly have no idea what your position is. You read like you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. There probably are some bodybuilders who are unhappy but that has nothing to do with qua bodybuilding and everything to do with the entirety of their mentalities toward life in general. There are unhappy people in all walks of life. Most people live unfulfilling lives for that matter. Has nothing to do with bodybuilding.[/quote]

Exactly. He isn’t making much sense yet pointing that out to him apparently means I have a mental disorder or something.

The average person on the average street hates their job, feels they aren’t making enough money and in general probably wishes they made better choices in life. That is why half of America is on anti-depressants. I am still lost as to how someone can claim bodybuilders are somehow unhappier as a whole than other pursuits…and we are making this assumption because he thinks Jay Cutler doesn’t smile enough???

60

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am still lost as to how someone can claim bodybuilders are somehow unhappier as a whole than other pursuits…and we are making this assumption because he thinks Jay Cutler doesn’t smile enough???[/quote]

lol!!