Big Challenge (I Think) for the Group

Training Bodybuilding
181

Dudeness, you are NOT going to get anywhere with that caloric intake and that lifting approach - and that general attitude you have towards this whole thing (10 pounds of muscle weight would be fantastic). Adding 10 pounds of LBM means nothing in the long term. Adding 30-40 pounds of LBM (including water and glycogen) and keeping 10-15 of that in a dry state and letting it reach maturity - THAT is something that will take time and considerable effort.

You will be stuck in the same spot with no physical change for the next many years, and erratic strength gains that will drop off as you battle soft tissue injuries due to hampered recovery from lifting with a poor diet.

That 10 pounds of “muscle weight” that you speak off will just creep up int he form of glycogen+water that you will piss away as soon as you take your next break or try to drop fat again, simply because you haven;t lifted long and hard enough to let that reach “maturity”. Most importantly no one will notice it if it doesn;t hit the right places.

Stop pussyfooting around, see another doc, get your T levels checked, set strength and weight goals and get on your way, man. Lift with intensity, work around your injuries.
You have no idea what you’re doing with this, it appears - and most of the concerned onlookers are watching this like a car crash at 2 mph (no none gets injured - but nothing happens anyway).

182

Continuing from previous post, you have to build an overall muscular foundation - and that will come with years of mass gaining with super-caloric intake and severe strength gains in selected movements for ALL major muscle groups. That will stay with you for life and help you shrug off 15-20 pounds of fat fast and effectively and look ripped when you dry out.

183

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
You have no idea what you’re doing with this, it appears - and most of the concerned onlookers are watching this like a car crash at 2 mph (no none gets injured - but nothing happens anyway).[/quote]

LOL… Best “critique” of my approach ever!

Trying not to sound too defensive (because that never helps anyone make progress!), I do have to say that I feel I’ve made some progress over the last six months or so, in all areas. I’m eating more than I was in previous years (after I’d gotten in the habit of “starving” after dropping 100 pounds of fat); I’m doing full-body workouts with compound exercises (previously, only did a million little worthless isolation ones); I’m emphasizing heavy weight (well, heavy to me… LOL); and I’ve worked hard to get my macronutrients right. I’ve also cleaned things up in the area of supplements, which means I’ve reduced all the “magic pills and formulas” I was taking down to protein powder, creatine, fish oil and BCAA’s. So, 2008 found me at least STARTING to get my act together…

So hearing what you (and everyone else) are telling me, here’s what I’ve been trying over the last couple of weeks: More food, but fewer carbs. In other words, I’ve all but dropped bread and refined sugar from my diet, and I’m emphasizing protein, healthy fats, and carbs from vegetables more than I ever have. This SEEMS to be having a positive effect on my mid-section (slightly less belly fat, I THINK), and over the last couple of days my wife has been commenting that my muscles look a little “bulkier”. Seems like a good sign. And in the last couple of workouts, I seem to be feeling a little stronger in the gym than I had been over the couple of months prior. Also, fewer hints of injuries (actual or impending).

One more positive thing: Did I tell you guys that I talked the cute nurse at my doctor’s office into giving me 300 mg/ml of Testosterone Cypionate each week instead of the 200 that I had been getting (and that my doctor prescribed)? She’s been doing this for the last few weeks and seems willing to continue indefinitely… What do you guys think about this change? Too much? No difference?

184

Read up on the anabolic diet.

185

Thought it was about time for an update…

First of all, thanks to all of you who are still following along in this saga. I know this has been going on for a LONG time, but maybe not too long compared to all those years I spent at 250 pounds with less muscle than a nine-year-old girl!

That said, ever since I started this post I’ve been very careful to try to take everything that everyone is saying to heart (with just one or two exceptions along the way… LOL)…

ampleforth asked awhile back if I’ve gained any weight during all of this, and I think I forgot to answer.

I started this post at 165 and am now at 180. As you all know, I’ve been concerned that a fair amount of this is fat, not muscle. And, tribunaldude, I hear what you’re saying: I’m never going to get anywhere if I keep obsessing about the fat.

So, here’s where I’m at as of today: Sometime back, someone else who is a former FB suggested that I try dropping dairy from my diet. I mentioned in my last post (a few weeks ago) that I’d dropped bread (for the most part) from my diet, but at that time I was still drinking a lot of milk, putting cream in my coffee each day (both pots… j/k… sort of), and - most important - was using cottage cheese to gird up my protein intake (one to two pounds of cottage cheese per day).

There was evidence when I was a kid that I’m allergic to dairy, but I’d kind of forgotten about that… In any case, I decided to “completely” drop dairy (in addition to bread) from my diet about a week or so ago. And my wife and I both think we notice a difference around my belly! Too early to get my hopes up that the code is finally cracked? Maybe… I’ll keep the group posted…

In the meantime, I’m working to really ramp up my caloric intake (per tribunaldude’s and others’ advice) via other means: lots of meats and vegetables, for example.

If bread and dairy really have been the culprits in the fat department, maybe I can finally start eating like a real man without turning into a fatty again!! Only chance of gaining any real muscle, I know (because you all keep telling me!!)…

Testosterone: Woke up the other morning and my wife asked me why I had A-cup boobs. Not quite the effect that I’ve been going for. Went to the doctor, and he now has me on a one-month break, followed by a blood test (February 13th). Next time, we’re going to include Arimadex. Any concerns about this? Am I going to get paranoid? (I did in the past on Finasteride…)

Workout: Kind of expecting to lose some strength in the gym now that I’m off the Testosterone, but doesn’t seem to be happening yet. In fact, I just hit 200 for the first time on my bench press! Wimpy to you guys, but great for me… :slight_smile:

Sorry for the typically long post…

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[quote]speakman wrote:
So, here’s where I’m at as of today: Sometime back, someone else who is a former FB suggested that I try dropping dairy from my diet. I mentioned in my last post (a few weeks ago) that I’d dropped bread (for the most part) from my diet, but at that time I was still drinking a lot of milk, putting cream in my coffee each day (both pots… j/k… sort of), and - most important - was using cottage cheese to gird up my protein intake (one to two pounds of cottage cheese per day).

There was evidence when I was a kid that I’m allergic to dairy, but I’d kind of forgotten about that…

In any case, I decided to “completely” drop dairy (in addition to bread) from my diet about a week or so ago. And my wife and I both think we notice a difference around my belly! Too early to get my hopes up that the code is finally cracked? Maybe… I’ll keep the group posted…
[/quote]

Did you find this difficult? I eat a lot of cottage cheese and heavy cream with my coffee also and it would seem like a huge sacrifice to give up both of those things, especially after dropping the sugar from the coffee.

187

[quote]debraD wrote:
Did you find this difficult? I eat a lot of cottage cheese and heavy cream with my coffee also and it would seem like a huge sacrifice to give up both of those things, especially after dropping the sugar from the coffee.
[/quote]

Definitely! The cottage cheese was hard to drop, as this had become kind of my “staple”. Being relatively low in carbs and fat, I figured this was a perfect food for getting in some good protein and calories everyday…

But with the suggestion by another poster (which took awhile for me to let sink in!) that dairy might be a major contributor to my fat issue, I decided it had to go. I’ve replaced that now with deli meats and frozen vegetables that I can throw together into a “snack” whenever I want something…

Straight milk is a little hard to give up, too, but giving up the cream in my coffee has been crazy-hard to cope with!!

This seems to have been having the most detrimental affect on my waistline, for some reason (probably because I drink so much coffee!), and now that I’ve dropped it (again, only a week or so ago) I’m really seeing a difference already. Again, maybe too early to tell for sure…

In any event, I gave up the sugar, too, awhile back (that was hard enough!), and the hardest part of dropping the cream has been to find a new addiction at Starbuck’s: I’ve ditched my venti skinny vanilla latte, and as I type this I’m drinking a venti Americano, sugar-free caramel, extra hot… Not terrible, all things considered! LOL…

Remember, the reason I’ve eliminated dairy is that I seem to have some kind of an allergy to it, or something. I don’t think it has the same effect on most people. Looking at your profile pics (sorry, couldn’t resist… LOL), it doesn’t look to me like you’re struggling with a fat problem!! Maybe you’re okay with the cottage cheese and the coffee cream… Just a thought… :slight_smile:

BTW, I also notice you’re a programmer. That’s cool! Another thing we have in common… LOL… I’m mainly .NET Web application development (VB.NET and SQL Server)… You?

188

[quote]speakman wrote:
Remember, the reason I’ve eliminated dairy is that I seem to have some kind of an allergy to it, or something. I don’t think it has the same effect on most people. Looking at your profile pics (sorry, couldn’t resist… LOL), it doesn’t look to me like you’re struggling with a fat problem!! Maybe you’re okay with the cottage cheese and the coffee cream… Just a thought… :slight_smile:

BTW, I also notice you’re a programmer. That’s cool! Another thing we have in common… LOL… I’m mainly .NET Web application development (VB.NET and SQL Server)… You?
[/quote]

I was not so much thinking about fat loss as much as I eat a lot of cottage cheese and at some point I will need to add some more variety, especially when I get sick of the stuff since I have a tendency to ‘overdue’ things. I don’t think I could ever give up the coffee cream! But it also seems like once you’ve eliminated breads and sugar and then dairy and … there isn’t much left! I was wondering how you were filling that gap. I hope you are still able to eat eggs.

Lately, I’ve been working on devices, embedded programming ( c and c++) and data communications stuff but I switch between that and working on a transaction mainframe, also communications but some financial stuff too. There is some .NET coming up in a project I’m starting in the spring though.

189

[quote]debraD wrote:
I was not so much thinking about fat loss as much as I eat a lot of cottage cheese and at some point I will need to add some more variety, especially when I get sick of the stuff since I have a tendency to ‘overdue’ things. I don’t think I could ever give up the coffee cream! But it also seems like once you’ve eliminated breads and sugar and then dairy and … there isn’t much left! I was wondering how you were filling that gap. I hope you are still able to eat eggs.[/quote]

If you’re not worried about fat loss (again, doesn’t look like you need to be! LOL), then I wouldn’t worry about giving up the cottage cheese. Also, again, you might not have a problem with dairy like I seem to. Ditto for the coffee cream (okay, now I’m seriously jealous!!)…

As for my brave new world, I can definitely eat eggs (2 or 3 raw ones every morning), protein powder, any meats or vegetables (every possible way that these are prepared), and basically anything that didn’t come from a cow or a wheat field. Also, minimal (or no) junk, of course. I’m not suffering too badly with this… Yesterday for lunch I actually indulged in Taco Bell: 2 hard-shell tacos and a tostada, all fresco style (no cheese). Seemed to survive that just fine… :slight_smile:

(hope I don’t get flamed for Taco Bell… LOL)

[quote]debraD wrote:
Lately, I’ve been working on devices, embedded programming ( c and c++) and data communications stuff but I switch between that and working on a transaction mainframe, also communications but some financial stuff too. There is some .NET coming up in a project I’m starting in the spring though.[/quote]

Didn’t know there were any programmers who look like you!! LOL… I’m very impressed, especially with the C and C++ part. Doesn’t get any higher level than that! I tried to get into C++ awhile back (I’m 100% self-taught), but too hard!! LOL… Definitely expert level in .NET, though, so if you get stuck let me know… :slight_smile:

190

[quote]debraD wrote:
I don’t think I could ever give up the coffee cream!
[/quote]

One other tip if you’re serious about dropping the cream from your coffee (again, not sure you need to, but that’s up to you): Try flavored coffee (assuming you brew your own). My wife buys chocolate or caramel flavored Folgers. Not bad, and kind of helps fulfill the “dessert” aspect of coffee even without the cream and sugar… Already told you my new Starbuck’s recipe… LOL

[quote]debraD wrote:
But it also seems like once you’ve eliminated breads and sugar and then dairy and … there isn’t much left! I was wondering how you were filling that gap. I hope you are still able to eat eggs.
[/quote]

You may have caught Shugart’s recent article on some of the best food choices:

Notice no sign of bread or dairy here. And eggs are definitely included. This isn’t an all-inclusive list, of course, and for most of us some bread and dairy is going to sneak in here and there… But this article emphasizes the point that we don’t have to starve, even after giving up a couple of major food groups!

Regarding the programming stuff: I tried to include my personal Web site in my last post, but must have been nixed by the powers that be. PM me if you need any .NET advice, etc… :slight_smile:

191

Update: About two and a half weeks into my new diet of anything except wheat and dairy (and junk, of course), and so far this strategy really seems to be working! I still seem to be losing some fat, slowly, while at the same time I’ve greatly increased my caloric intake (per tribunaldude and others)… Still too early to say for sure, but I feel like after all these years I may have finally cracked the code…

On the Testosterone front, I’m now three weeks into my break, and the effects are obvious: My muscle mass has gone down a bit, my strength has dropped slightly in the gym, and my sex drive is a little on the low side. I’m sure I’d be in a lot worse shape right now if I hadn’t figured out how to eat a lot of food!! My blood test is this Friday, and I’m really hoping that immediately after that my doctor will put me right back on the T shots… As mentioned before, we’ll be adding Arimadex this time… Still waiting for the group to give me a little feedback on Arimadex. Not much on the forums that I’ve found so far…

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[quote]speakman wrote:
As mentioned before, we’ll be adding Arimadex this time… Still waiting for the group to give me a little feedback on Arimadex. Not much on the forums that I’ve found so far…[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/serm_and_ai_sticky

:slight_smile:

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oh

my

god

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[quote]Stronghold wrote:
speakman wrote:
As mentioned before, we’ll be adding Arimadex this time… Still waiting for the group to give me a little feedback on Arimadex. Not much on the forums that I’ve found so far…

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/serm_and_ai_sticky

:)[/quote]

Stronghold! Long time no type… LOL

Just read through the whole thread… Thanks! For some reason, I didn’t come across that when I searched for Arimadex on the site. Looks like this is a decent choice for keeping the estrogen at bay.

Why isn’t Finasteride mentioned in the list? That’s what my doctor tried with me a couple of years ago (I was on T cream, which never worked anywhere near as well as the shots). That was the last time I was on an estrogen inhibitor. I only used the Finasteride for a few weeks, as it turned me into a paranoid psycho. (Hope Adex doesn’t do this!!!)

Just found this thread on Finasteride: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/finasteride_and_gains

Could this be true of Adex, too? Last thing I need to do is inhibit my gains!

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[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
oh

my

god

[/quote]

Haven’t heard from you in awhile either, ZeusNathan! Typically helpful comment… LOL

196

This thread is epic. I approve. HAHAHAHA ~ I actually was skimming and after the stronghold vs zeusnathan war I went back to skimming.

Things I noticed ~ an absence of pictures - overtime. Also caliper tests to go with those pictures.

Really good stuff either way I think the fact you look better and are plenty stronger is the most important thing. It means you are further then you were before and what lies ahead is new territory!

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[quote]kinein wrote:
This thread is epic. I approve. HAHAHAHA ~ I actually was skimming and after the stronghold vs zeusnathan war I went back to skimming.

Things I noticed ~ an absence of pictures - overtime. Also caliper tests to go with those pictures.

Really good stuff either way I think the fact you look better and are plenty stronger is the most important thing. It means you are further then you were before and what lies ahead is new territory!
[/quote]

Thanks for the encouraging words! And glad you like what by now must be one of the longer threads on T-Nation, and all about just one guy’s struggle to “get a clue” about this bodybuilding thing… LOL… Seriously, by the time this gets to some kind of conclusion, I hope to be living proof that NO ONE has an excuse not to be in really, really good shape!

As for posting some update pics, very good point, and I think you’re the first one to ask (if I remember correctly). In a way, I’ve been dreading this, since I’m worried that everyone will see what I look like now and say, “What the heck have you been doing for the last year!!!” LOL… Maybe I’m just being paranoid. Either way, I need to take my medicine and expose myself to the feedback of the group…

So, sure, I’ll plan to post an update photo soon…

198

What is the worst that could happen? I bet your arms won’t detach from your shoulders. Motivation can come through many ways including having some e-tard throw stix and stones at you.

My only tidbits to toss into the pot are ~ mind muscle control + insane contractions + making each rep worth its weight in gold + focus + determination and ~ as you progress you seek to find your limits and break them. Then redefine your goals and limits and break them again ~ all followed by good old fashion eating and burpin.

some inspiration and thought ~

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_beginner/7_month_picture_critique

Stay strong!

199

lol speakman

so you gave up on the starting strength and started taking steroids?

oh speakman. oh, friggin, speakman.

i wish you’d update with progress, not these empty promises of your success.

3 x 12 is still there for you. always will be.
haha :smiley:

200

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
lol speakman

so you gave up on the starting strength and started taking steroids?

oh speakman. oh, friggin, speakman.

i wish you’d update with progress, not these empty promises of your success.

3 x 12 is still there for you. always will be.
haha :smiley: [/quote]

Hey, if all else fails, juice up!!!

…

If you want a serious answer, read back through the thread to see why I’m getting Testosterone shots. If you still don’t understand, you need to study up on hormone therapy for guys with low natural T levels… Could help you with your own clients if you ever get any who are over 40 and happen to be stalling for no apparent reason…

As for my program, I’m past the Starting Strength thing. That program’s exercises still make up the core of my routine, but lately I’ve been alternating between high-weight, low-rep sets and lower-weight, high-rep sets. So, in the course of a week, I’m actually doing some 3 x 12’s… But doesn’t make a difference if I have the T levels of a nine-year-old girl… Go figure…

Good point about my progress. I’ll post my chart today or tomorrow…