[quote]GermanPower wrote:
most important sentence - he does not understand it. ok lets go over it, how many Coaches - only the top ones!!! - use the bench in the off-season, or even in-season??? european coaches, they are the best, everybody stole their ideas and methods, do not use bench-press at all, accept the dumbass bodybuilders, but different story. let’s go back to the top coaches from the western hemisphere
poliquin - flat bench?? he will punch you in the face
loui simmons - flat bench?? same as poliquin
defranco - flat bench. maybe 225 for reps, but he hates his athletes doing them - endurance crap that nobody needs. normal bench?? - he will laugh at you
[/quote]
I’m going to go out a limb here and guess that the guys at Westside bench press once in a while.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
Who really cares how much you bench? For all the macho bodybuilders out there that think that pressing a lot of weight from a flat bench is the be-all and end-all of manhood, think again.
Paul Chek states that “because the bench press is performed on a flat weight lifting bench, normal movement of the shoulder blades (scapulae) is disrupted. This demands that more movement must occur in the shoulder joint itself”
And just how much functional carryover will it have to your real-life anyhow? Just how much pectoralis involment is there in typing on a keyboard or pushing a pencil?
And if you’re one of the knuckleheads on this site that’d rather trade pain free shoulders for a nice set of pecs, try pressing whilst lying on a swiss-ball. (see attached image) Your shoulders will thank you for it. [/quote]
As a many year CHEK intern (level 3) I can appreciate the logic behind doing presses on a Swiss Ball. I think most good strength coaches implement this tool at various strategic times for pre/rehab or variety. What I cannot appreciate however is the mentality that must exist when writing a post such as the one that started this thread.
The idea here is to provide CONSTRUCTIVE alternatives to conventional wisdom. Paul, I believe, wrote the article with this premise. This is not an “Us vs Them” situation.
It doesn’t matter how good your advice is when you are an asshole. You might be a cool guy so why be so antagonistic? It really serves no purpose and I can bet that Paul doesn’t appreciate what you’re doing.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
GermanPower wrote:
most important sentence - he does not understand it. ok lets go over it, how many Coaches - only the top ones!!! - use the bench in the off-season, or even in-season??? european coaches, they are the best, everybody stole their ideas and methods, do not use bench-press at all, accept the dumbass bodybuilders, but different story. let’s go back to the top coaches from the western hemisphere
poliquin - flat bench?? he will punch you in the face
loui simmons - flat bench?? same as poliquin
defranco - flat bench. maybe 225 for reps, but he hates his athletes doing them - endurance crap that nobody needs. normal bench?? - he will laugh at you
I’m going to go out a limb here and guess that the guys at Westside bench press once in a while.[/quote]
[quote]GermanPower wrote:
defranco - flat bench. maybe 225 for reps, but he hates his athletes doing them - endurance crap that nobody needs. normal bench?? - he will laugh at you
[/quote]
Endurance crap that nobody needs? Punters and field goal kickers, maybe, don’t need endurance, but anybody else who intends to play any sport at any level could probably make do.
[quote]Bullmoose wrote:
GermanPower wrote:
defranco - flat bench. maybe 225 for reps, but he hates his athletes doing them - endurance crap that nobody needs. normal bench?? - he will laugh at you
Endurance crap that nobody needs? Punters and field goal kickers, maybe, don’t need endurance, but anybody else who intends to play any sport at any level could probably make do. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure that he’s referring to the standard bench press test of doing 225lb for as many reps as possible, saying that it involves endurance more than strength.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
G.O.A.T wrote:
CHEKonIT wrote:
Isn’t that the ball you get at the newsagent on Bourke St. when you buy 3 or more reams of A4 paper?
Yeah but reading that Chek article he didn’t say anywhere that you needed something stronger than your average Swiss Ball.
Do you still need your mummy to hold your hand while you cross the street?
Charles Poliquin hasn’t stated that you need good quality equipment to help keep you injury free, and he shouldn’t need to. Are you going to cry about him if your K-Mart bench press rack falls apart?
[/quote]
You need to know a bit more about your equipment brands. Australian Barbell Company are one of the best quality manufacturers in Oz, none of their stuff is crap. I’ve been researching prices for a home gym and most of their gear is outside of my price range!
[quote]Kratos wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
Well over a 400 bench.
What are you worried about? It popping or losing balance. There is such thing as a spotter for balance.
Gravity is gravity. A 100+ DB swinging around isn’t good in any case. On a ball I wouldn’t trust a spotter too much, there are a lot of ways for both of us to get hurt. I do use the ball, though, but I use it for my ab and core exercises. Most gyms don’t have 800lb. rated balls around here. I doubt commercial gyms would spend that sort of money. I also don’t see what benefits it would have over DB presses on a bench.[/quote]
Agreeing with Kratos here. A spotter? I actually never use a spotter while doing dumbell benching, even if I am going for a max. I look at it this way. If the weight is too heavy or it seems like I may not be able to lift it, I swing them down and let them fall on the floor. If something suddendly shifts and I fail all of a sudden, a spotter can really do very little.
The shoulder surgery that I had this year was a result of my hypermobile right shoulder joint sliding out of the socket. I basically loss all control of my right arm immediatly and the dumbell bounced off my chest. For anything sudden like this, there is no way that your spotter can react effectivley in a 2.5 or 3 feet free fall to do you any good. If the problem is gradually occuring, drop the dumbells.
In any case, it’s hard enough getting the dumbells in position for a 1-3RM on a bench. I can’t even begin to imagine this shit on a swiss ball.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
They are kind of large and they were using 70kg DB’s
Nearly 155lbs dumbbells on a swissball? Bullshit.
They are big boys with well over 400lb benches. My memory may be on 90% accurate but I know that it was definetly 65kg or over.
Bullshit. That would have to be some kind of record. Someone capable of doing that much on a swissball would be able to move MUCH more doing the exercise normally.
A 400lbs benchpress does not translate over to being able to do the same in dumbbells. Anyone with any experience beyond a swissball would know this. That is why many trainers avoid dumbbells because they are suddenly doing less perceived weight than they would with a barbell.[/quote]
Prof X,
I’m not agreeing with a lot of what the OP and his troll friends are saying. but believe me when I say some of those rugby league guys are extremely strong, and they were training at an Institute of Sport gym, which would have the best equipment capable of holding that weight.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
CHEKonIT wrote:
Matgic wrote:
These people will have you squatting the same weight for months and months because the upper half of your left labia is not firing correctly. I say, put some more damn weight on the bar and don’t worry about every single detail. A plane is off course for most of the trip, but the important thing is that it lands where it’s supposed to.
The plane’s course is readjusted many times during the trip, but either way, I’d rather spend a few months getting my body right before going heavy than to just have your “fuck it” attitute and have the condition get worse and worse.
There are many who find the focus on all of these “problems” your body supposedly has to be overstated. It helps sell a program though. If there are major structural issues, then by all means, focus on that. However, why is it all of a sudden nearly every human being on the planet has some major structural issue that needs to be taken care of before they start training? Have some of you truly begun to believe that this is “normal”?[/quote]
That is precisely why I used the airplane example. Giant issues like a piece of the plane’s wing falling off need to be adressed immediatly.
But just because the microwave is broken inside and you can’t get those gooey chocolate chip cookies you love, it doesn’t mean you stop the whole damn plane for progressing. If it’s an essential problem, fix it. This can often be done while still making progress if the person works hard enough.
[quote]bg100 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
They are kind of large and they were using 70kg DB’s
Nearly 155lbs dumbbells on a swissball? Bullshit.
They are big boys with well over 400lb benches. My memory may be on 90% accurate but I know that it was definetly 65kg or over.
Bullshit. That would have to be some kind of record. Someone capable of doing that much on a swissball would be able to move MUCH more doing the exercise normally.
A 400lbs benchpress does not translate over to being able to do the same in dumbbells. Anyone with any experience beyond a swissball would know this. That is why many trainers avoid dumbbells because they are suddenly doing less perceived weight than they would with a barbell.
Prof X,
I’m not agreeing with a lot of what the OP and his troll friends are saying. but believe me when I say some of those rugby league guys are extremely strong, and they were training at an Institute of Sport gym, which would have the best equipment capable of holding that weight.
[/quote]
No one said they weren’t strong. However, a 155lbs dumbbell press on a swiss ball not only sounds retarded, but highly unlikely. What, pray tell, would be the point of such a maneuver?
[quote]Kratos wrote:
What’s next, are you going to recommend we deadlift with rollerskates on? Squats on a teeter-totter? What next?[/quote]
Catherine and I did overhead one leg squats last night on a balance board that was on top of a swiss ball. This definitely recruited more core muscles and really challenged our balance.
[quote]monkey_space wrote:
Kratos wrote:
What’s next, are you going to recommend we deadlift with rollerskates on? Squats on a teeter-totter? What next?
Catherine and I did overhead one leg squats last night on a balance board that was on top of a swiss ball. This definitely recruited more core muscles and really challenged our balance.
You should really give it a try. It was awesome!
Christopher[/quote]
That must be the advanced class. I am still doing the one armed behind the neck triceps extensions while doing one legged sissy squats while riding a skateboard on the treadmill.
[quote]G.O.A.T wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
Functional carry over to what? Strength is strength. Getting stronger on any type of lift will carry over to you being able to pick up heavy shit, period. Sorry, you’re “carry over” jive holds no water.
This may be opening a can of worms but the “carry over” does hold water.
There are plenty of guys I have played Aussie Rules Football with who were strong fuckers in the gym, but weak as piss in a ruck or something similar.
Sometimes strength in the gym is only that.
[/quote]
And if those same people didn’t lift in the gym they would be weaker yet.
This criticism is often used to put down weight training but it is meaningless.
Lifting weights helps one become the best athlete he or she can be. It has nothing to do with anyone else.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
monkey_space wrote:
Kratos wrote:
What’s next, are you going to recommend we deadlift with rollerskates on? Squats on a teeter-totter? What next?
Catherine and I did overhead one leg squats last night on a balance board that was on top of a swiss ball. This definitely recruited more core muscles and really challenged our balance.
You should really give it a try. It was awesome!
Christopher
That must be the advanced class. I am still doing the one armed behind the neck triceps extensions while doing one legged sissy squats while riding a skateboard on the treadmill.[/quote]
You are correct. It sure took us a long time, but we have reach reached the advanced level. The one armed behind the neck triceps extensions while doing one legged sissy squats while riding a skateboard on the treadmill was easier for me than it was for Catherine. She has this inexplicable phobia of treadmills. But, after a lot of hard work and dedication, she was able to do them with great success. The one I really excel at is the handstand pushup with each hand on a different size swiss ball with dbs chained to your ankles while doing leg splits.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
monkey_space wrote:
Kratos wrote:
What’s next, are you going to recommend we deadlift with rollerskates on? Squats on a teeter-totter? What next?
Catherine and I did overhead one leg squats last night on a balance board that was on top of a swiss ball. This definitely recruited more core muscles and really challenged our balance.
You should really give it a try. It was awesome!
Christopher
That must be the advanced class. I am still doing the one armed behind the neck triceps extensions while doing one legged sissy squats while riding a skateboard on the treadmill.[/quote]
Try it on a seatless unicycle. Make sure you do a cleansing first!
[quote]monkey_space wrote:
You are correct. It sure took us a long time, but we have reach reached the advanced level. The one armed behind the neck triceps extensions while doing one legged sissy squats while riding a skateboard on the treadmill was easier for me than it was for Catherine. She has this inexplicable phobia of treadmills. But, after a lot of hard work and dedication, she was able to do them with great success. The one I really excel at is the handstand pushup with each hand on a different size swiss ball with dbs chained to your ankles while doing leg splits. [/quote]
If you don’t understand enough to enter into this intellectual conversation at this point, I invite you to come back and post when you are.
[/quote]
There is a very interesting characteristic being exposed here. It’s obvious that you have bought in to Cheks system of holistic wellness, blah blah and blah.
You found something that you did not previously have. Thats great, but it does not make you any smarter than you were before. You have only just scratched the surface of knowledge about strength and conditioning. Funny thing is that the part you have stuck under your nail is full of smugness, pretense and mostly bullshit, or light fluffy fecal matter that is not foul smelling.
Congradulations! You have just been bamboozled in to paying for a bunch of stuff that a lot of people allready know! That “think outside of the box” line empties the pockets every time.
Put a lid on the “I’m so intelligent” thing. You are buying info that could be found for free, without all of the guru smuggness and pretense.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I have yet to run into the situation in life where I was suddenly reduced to the strength of a school girl in spite of benching as much as I do simply because I haven’t been “ball balancing”.
Hopefully for your sake it never does. I, at least, have never made such an exaggerated claim.
[/quote]
Logically, by denouncing the use of the BB Bench Press as non-functional and stating that they should therefore be replaced by Swiss Ball DB presses, you have made such a claim.
[quote]monkey_space wrote:
Kratos wrote:
What’s next, are you going to recommend we deadlift with rollerskates on? Squats on a teeter-totter? What next?
Catherine and I did overhead one leg squats last night on a balance board that was on top of a swiss ball. This definitely recruited more core muscles and really challenged our balance.
You should really give it a try. It was awesome!
Christopher[/quote]
The Cat in the Hat does something like that too, I think.