[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
By all means, keep doing them. Shit happens. I’m simply offering a safer alternative that has the potential to be just as effective.[/quote]
How much do you weigh?
This fucking thread is hilarious. There is a great deal of people insulting someone for their opinion/position and it doesn?t help a thing. It takes more brains and balls to put up a post then to put up insults. Chek has some good stuff to ADD to a well rounded strength training program.
My bench was stuck at 365 for the longest time and when I started to Swiss ball bench (both barbell and DB) I was able to get my bench to 392 within 12-13 weeks then I stalled for another 6 months. Then a friend of mine suggested pushing a car with my arms locked in my pressing sticking point and my bench is now at 435 after adding stupid car pushing! They key (I believe) is sticking to core lifting movements and adding various types of strength movement to keep your progressing.
I will say I thought the comment about how benching won’t help your office skills funny. Lord knows that I don?t lift so I can type faster, sit longer or perform better in any office environment. If I want to improve my typing skills I will hire someone! I lift because I like to move stupid weight to get stronger, fell better and live like a warrior in a world of abnormality. I am sure I am not alone
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
i think it’s pretty obvious from the very first post of this thread that the thread starter is ‘one of those’… you know what i mean: inexperienced, weak, hater-type guy who makes excuses for why there are others who are far stronger and more developed than he is.
i imagine ‘chek on it’ had maybe even been training for a few years, yet still looks like your average lethargic couch potato. i could be wrong, but my instincts tell me that.
[/quote]
So many assumptions, so little facts.
Have you got something constructive to say or are you just a bagger?
[quote]G.O.A.T wrote:
I reckon Paul Chek would love this. He is nothing but a marketing guru who consistantly gets skinny ass trainers to follow his programs. The reason why they follow him - because he claims to have all the answers and offer a way for them to feel comfortable that they weren’t able to get big in the normal way (lift heavy and eat).
Chek would be loving every bit of this and I reckon he honestly did write this as a provocative article.
Read the article and in my eyes it is written to piss people like the majority of T-Nation users off.
[/quote]
Another user who thinks that the world revolves around him. If you looked beyond the surfface of your ignorance, you’d find that the article could quite probably help you.
More tall poppy syndrome.
[quote]Kratos wrote:
Useless trash? You just nailed all of CHEKonIT’s posts to the ground. Your opinions aren’t just different, they are insipid and idiotic. You guys haven’t put up much that makes any sense at all. Why don’t you go troll over at the Dimensions magazine forums? I’m sure you could “convert” plenty of them. If not you could at least do your Swiss Ball Presses of of their fat, round bellies.
[/quote]
If it doesn’t make any sense to you, why don’t you ask more about it instead of reverting to your bagging response. You’re like Pavlov’s dogs, he rings the bell, you cover up your ignorance with insults.
[quote]AgentOrange wrote:
Matgic wrote:
But the truth is, I’ve never seen someone become a powerful athletic beast from training on a swiss ball as a primarly focus.
CHEKonIT wrote:
Swiss Ball training is still relatively new. Give 10 years and some solid advice, you will.
You can’t be fucking serious. Do you actually believe the shit that comes out of your mouth? Nobody will ever become “a powerful athletic beast from training on a swiss ball as a primarly focus.” Swiss balls are for assistance training at best, and you’d have to be fucking delusional to believe otherwise.[/quote]
Not as a primary focus, but in 10 years, I believe every powerful athletic beast will use one.
[quote]Kratos wrote:
You are an absolute fool of the highest caliber. None of the verbal diarrhea you have spewed out has shown any beneftit from your obsession with balls. Core and stabilizer muscles can be trained with better, safer methods. Let’s see you put your money where your mouth is, Mr. Still Don’t Have a Pic Up.[/quote]
Lets hear how you’d get your shoulders stable enough to push with near max force without risking injury.
Chekonit,
One of the big problems I have (and most peple) with all this concern over Swiss Ball DB benching is that you are simply limiting your maximal strength. You will NEVER be able to SB DB bench what you could DB bench on a flat bench, and what you can DB bench is not going to be near what you can flat barbell bench. In only doing SB DB benches (which it seems like you are advocating?), you are totally limiting your ability to stimulate your CNS to it’s full capacity.
Not enough CNS stimulation (aka, not lifting enough heavy weights) = Slow progress in getting stronger.
I think the SB DB press could be a decent exercise if used at the right time. DeFranco advocates using it once every 5-6 weeks in place as an RE exercise in place of barbell or DB rep training. I think this has proven itself to be an effective (and more logical) application.
[quote]Matgic wrote:
CHEKonIT wrote:
Your everyday couch-potato doesn’t give a shit how much he bench presses or deadlifts. Why would most people need to benchpress 400lb?
It is not a matter of need. No one NEEDS to play football or rugby or lift weights. It’s a matter of want. Read this and I hope it’ll make things clearer.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=874080
[/quote]
Great article. I’m saying that for most people, it’s still a matter of want, but they don’t want it.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Chekonit,
One of the big problems I have (and most peple) with all this concern over Swiss Ball DB benching is that you are simply limiting your maximal strength. You will NEVER be able to SB DB bench what you could DB bench on a flat bench, and what you can DB bench is not going to be near what you can flat barbell bench. In only doing SB DB benches (which it seems like you are advocating?), you are totally limiting your ability to stimulate your CNS to it’s full capacity.
Not enough CNS stimulation (aka, not lifting enough heavy weights) = Slow progress in getting stronger.
I think the SB DB press could be a decent exercise if used at the right time. DeFranco advocates using it once every 5-6 weeks in place as an RE exercise in place of barbell or DB rep training. I think this has proven itself to be an effective (and more logical) application.[/quote]
Thanks for the reply.
I believe it may indeed be limiting your maximum strength, but only your flat bench barbell press strength. And that’d only be for those who are used to regular bench pressing and not willing to put in the extra time and effort needed to progress on the ball.
I also believe that if progressed slowly and intelligently, all factors involved would improve together, and you’d still be able to get the same amount of CNS stimulation.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Chekonit,
One of the big problems I have (and most peple) with all this concern over Swiss Ball DB benching is that you are simply limiting your maximal strength. You will NEVER be able to SB DB bench what you could DB bench on a flat bench, and what you can DB bench is not going to be near what you can flat barbell bench. In only doing SB DB benches (which it seems like you are advocating?), you are totally limiting your ability to stimulate your CNS to it’s full capacity.
Not enough CNS stimulation (aka, not lifting enough heavy weights) = Slow progress in getting stronger.
I think the SB DB press could be a decent exercise if used at the right time. DeFranco advocates using it once every 5-6 weeks in place as an RE exercise in place of barbell or DB rep training. I think this has proven itself to be an effective (and more logical) application.
Thanks for the reply.
I believe it may indeed be limiting your maximum strength, but only your flat bench barbell press strength. And that’d only be for those who are used to regular bench pressing and not willing to put in the extra time and effort needed to progress on the ball.
I also believe that if progressed slowly and intelligently, all factors involved would improve together, and you’d still be able to get the same amount of CNS stimulation.[/quote]
Is this what you believe or what you see? How much do you weigh and what is your current dumbell bench press on a bench? How about a swiss ball? How about you learn to press 100-120lb dumbells on a swiss ball without using the flat bench and take some pictures.
If you believe in this so strongly, perhaps you should make an example and show us where we are wrong.
I’m not trying to be an asshole here, but I think it’d certainly help prove your point. And please don’t tell me that you have no desire to lift this much weight. If that’s the case, you will instantly be put into the yoda category.
-MAtt
[quote]Matgic wrote:
Is this what you believe or what you see? How much do you weigh and what is your current dumbell bench press on a bench? How about a swiss ball? How about you learn to press 100-120lb dumbells on a swiss ball without using the flat bench and take some pictures.
If you believe in this so strongly, perhaps you should make an example and show us where we are wrong.
I’m not trying to be an asshole here, but I think it’d certainly help prove your point. And please don’t tell me that you have no desire to lift this much weight. If that’s the case, you will instantly be put into the yoda category.
-MAtt[/quote]
That’s a fair point. I currently press with 40kg DBs for my 3RM on the flat bench (though obviously I don’t use the bench much) and do the same on the Swiss Ball.
I know I’m not into the 110lb press catagory, but the fact that I can press the same on either proves a pretty good point. Use that as a base and let the bigger guys who put more emphasis on the movement take the same ratio and run with it.
As for pictures, since you were so polite about it, stick with me, I’ll post some soon.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
bg100 wrote:
You need to know a bit more about your equipment brands. Australian Barbell Company are one of the best quality manufacturers in Oz, none of their stuff is crap. I’ve been researching prices for a home gym and most of their gear is outside of my price range!
I need to know more about MY brands?
At least I don’t shop solely according to price.[/quote]
Uh, you completely missed the point I was making. You had responded to the guy who mentioned the ABC brand of swissball with some smartarse comment about it being inferior. I was merely pointing out that that most of their gear is more expensive than other suppliers, and from what I have seen when searching for equipment, plus experiencing their equipment at a gym I used to go to, they do make some of the best stuff in Oz. Oh, and most of the best stuff does cost a lot more (funny that!), so price is usually a good indicator of quality.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Chekonit,
One of the big problems I have (and most peple) with all this concern over Swiss Ball DB benching is that you are simply limiting your maximal strength. You will NEVER be able to SB DB bench what you could DB bench on a flat bench, and what you can DB bench is not going to be near what you can flat barbell bench. In only doing SB DB benches (which it seems like you are advocating?), you are totally limiting your ability to stimulate your CNS to it’s full capacity.
Not enough CNS stimulation (aka, not lifting enough heavy weights) = Slow progress in getting stronger.
I think the SB DB press could be a decent exercise if used at the right time. DeFranco advocates using it once every 5-6 weeks in place as an RE exercise in place of barbell or DB rep training. I think this has proven itself to be an effective (and more logical) application.[/quote]
(Pubmed ninja strikes again!)
Here’s the bottom line: people who can’t bench a broom stick dislike the movement and tell themselves and others it’s an inferior lift to make themselves feel better.
Squats, deadlifts, and bench presses all three place the body and it’s joints under tremendous stress. That’s the reason they’re effective. Ask an offensive lineman who has to pancake a defender and then run block if bench strength is important.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
Kratos wrote:
Useless trash? You just nailed all of CHEKonIT’s posts to the ground. Your opinions aren’t just different, they are insipid and idiotic. You guys haven’t put up much that makes any sense at all. Why don’t you go troll over at the Dimensions magazine forums? I’m sure you could “convert” plenty of them. If not you could at least do your Swiss Ball Presses of of their fat, round bellies.
If it doesn’t make any sense to you, why don’t you ask more about it instead of reverting to your bagging response. You’re like Pavlov’s dogs, he rings the bell, you cover up your ignorance with insults.[/quote]
Oh, insults? Don’t start crying now, after all that Spartacus bullshit. At the end of this sentence you will find the galaxy’s smallest violin… As far as those rubgby guys go, I bet they didn’t get to where they were at(WELL over 400 lb benches) by doing a bunch of swiss ball training.
As for your silly post about not injuring myself during max effort, weell I have been doing max effort benching and shoulder pressing for years , and I haven't hurt myself. And I have never done DB presses on a swiss ball. Nobody says they are totally worthless, they have their place, but they aren't the magical, must-be-done movement you are making them out to be. Where are all of these guys with the hurt shoulders because they don't use a swiss ball?That's yet another of the points you have dodged. You don't seem to like to answer certain questions. Showing your ignorance, aren't you?
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
PGJ wrote:
What is the opposite of “functional”? Non-functional, right? The guys who are working “functional” exercises are using less weight across the board. Does this imply that guys who lift big and screw the functional thing are non-functional? Does Prof X sit around his house wishing he could open the door or carry his groceries because his muscles have become non-functional? How can he type so much if his muscles haven’t been functionally trained on a swiss ball?
You don’t seem to realise that not much in life is black and white. Console yourself by knowing that it’s easier to think of it that way.
Functional is stupid. There is no such thing as muscle-bound. I think that’s the root of the problem. Many people still think big muscles are inflexible, so enterprising trainers capitalize on this by advertising “functional training”. The great thing about this is that you don’t have to lift heavy (that would be bad for some reason) and your everyday couch-potato likes that idea.
Name me one good coach who still thinks big muscles are inflexible.
Your everyday couch-potato doesn’t give a shit how much he bench presses or deadlifts. Why would most people need to benchpress 400lb?
[/quote]
That’s the whole point, dude. Saying this exercise is “functional” implies that another exercise is not functional. Like doing BP on a bench will somehow prevent me from doing normal activities. I said there are many people who do still believe that big muscles are inflexible and that bodybuilders can’t even touch their toes and all that stupidity. “Functional” trainers have capitalized on this ignorance by pushing their silly balancing act workout routines promising more functional muscles. Please explain to me how Mario P. (a guy who does 315lb standing shoulder presses) is less functional than the skinny trainer on a swiss ball.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
Your everyday couch-potato doesn’t give a shit how much he bench presses or deadlifts. Why would most people need to benchpress 400lb?
[/quote]
Why would they need to swissball press 70 pounds?
At least benching 400 shows true strength.
Swissball is good for rehab/prehab. It should not be used as the primary strength snd muscle builder.
Why do you have such a hard time seeing this fact? Are you just trolling for a reaction?
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
You can’t be fucking serious. Do you actually believe the shit that comes out of your mouth? Nobody will ever become “a powerful athletic beast from training on a swiss ball as a primarly focus.” Swiss balls are for assistance training at best, and you’d have to be fucking delusional to believe otherwise.
Not as a primary focus, but in 10 years, I believe every powerful athletic beast will use one.
[/quote]
Every powerful athletic beast uses a tootbrush too. Perhaps that is all that is required?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
CHEKonIT wrote:
Your everyday couch-potato doesn’t give a shit how much he bench presses or deadlifts. Why would most people need to benchpress 400lb?
Why would they need to swissball press 70 pounds?
At least benching 400 shows true strength.
Swissball is good for rehab/prehab. It should not be used as the primary strength snd muscle builder.
Why do you have such a hard time seeing this fact? Are you just trolling for a reaction? [/quote]
“Are you just trolling for a reaction?”
BINGO!