I am looking to add mass and get stronger is the Beyond 5/3/1 program ok for me?
Absolutely. Wendler makes this point alot in various ways, but ive never seen a small guy bench 400, squat 600 and dealift 700. Simply make the assistance hypertrophy orientated. One way ive done this with people is have the bench day a chest and biceps day, the deadlift day a posterior chain day, the militray press a Shoulder and triceps day, and the squat day a Quad, abs and calves day. TONS of options but this program is totally open to interpretation IMO. This fits it into that mold of 1 bodypart per week. Or make it a simply upper/lower split and have your assitance hypertrophy orientated. The program is based on progressive overload, this should fit into any template where you’re trying to improve strength, size or conditioning imo.
Echoing what Curodd said, that’s the beauty of 5/3/1 - that you can adapt it for any goal. If you’re looking to build mass, you will do so with the program as written if your diet and recovery are in check. You can also adapt your assistance exercises to build muscle. I’m using the original 5/3/1 with hypertrophy-oriented assistance exercises currently and getting great results.
The progressive overload built in to the main lifts is also a good way to make sure you are still on track week to week. If your numbers are moving, you are building.
Lastly, the 5x5 work in Beyond 5/3/1 is probably one of the best ways possible to ensure you are going heavy enough and with enough volume to spur growth.
[quote]Juggs wrote:
Echoing what Curodd said, that’s the beauty of 5/3/1 - that you can adapt it for any goal. If you’re looking to build mass, you will do so with the program as written if your diet and recovery are in check. You can also adapt your assistance exercises to build muscle. I’m using the original 5/3/1 with hypertrophy-oriented assistance exercises currently and getting great results.
The progressive overload built in to the main lifts is also a good way to make sure you are still on track week to week. If your numbers are moving, you are building.
Lastly, the 5x5 work in Beyond 5/3/1 is probably one of the best ways possible to ensure you are going heavy enough and with enough volume to spur growth. [/quote]
Thanks so much bro, i don’t know what id do with out this great community of weight lifters on here, i am going to add some rows, flys and such as hypertrophy after the given ones…
[quote]Curodd wrote:
Absolutely. Wendler makes this point alot in various ways, but ive never seen a small guy bench 400, squat 600 and dealift 700. Simply make the assistance hypertrophy orientated. One way ive done this with people is have the bench day a chest and biceps day, the deadlift day a posterior chain day, the militray press a Shoulder and triceps day, and the squat day a Quad, abs and calves day. TONS of options but this program is totally open to interpretation IMO. This fits it into that mold of 1 bodypart per week. Or make it a simply upper/lower split and have your assitance hypertrophy orientated. The program is based on progressive overload, this should fit into any template where you’re trying to improve strength, size or conditioning imo. [/quote]
should i toss in some other hypertrophy exercises for my assistance, and do i NEED the supplements recommended
I would be careful adding in extra assistance exercises, it might take away from the main movements, and you might end up doing more harm than good. Sometimes less is best. And no you do not need the supplements but Jim is just telling you what works for him. I simply cannot afford the supplements at this time, except Indigo-3G and Surge Recovery, but hopefully someday will be able to get on Plazma.
[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
I would be careful adding in extra assistance exercises, it might take away from the main movements, and you might end up doing more harm than good. Sometimes less is best. And no you do not need the supplements but Jim is just telling you what works for him. I simply cannot afford the supplements at this time, except Indigo-3G and Surge Recovery, but hopefully someday will be able to get on Plazma.[/quote]
I can’t afford the book right now so will i be ok with just working off the article here on T Nation?
[quote]jake_richardson wrote:
[quote]Curodd wrote:
Absolutely. Wendler makes this point alot in various ways, but ive never seen a small guy bench 400, squat 600 and dealift 700. Simply make the assistance hypertrophy orientated. One way ive done this with people is have the bench day a chest and biceps day, the deadlift day a posterior chain day, the militray press a Shoulder and triceps day, and the squat day a Quad, abs and calves day. TONS of options but this program is totally open to interpretation IMO. This fits it into that mold of 1 bodypart per week. Or make it a simply upper/lower split and have your assitance hypertrophy orientated. The program is based on progressive overload, this should fit into any template where you’re trying to improve strength, size or conditioning imo. [/quote]
should i toss in some other hypertrophy exercises for my assistance, and do i NEED the supplements recommended [/quote]
You dont NEED any supplements. I personally take a couple shakes a day, take a multi, fish oil and Vit D. Sometimes when I feel stressed Ill grab a quality Magnesium/zinc supp and take before bed. Thats what my current budget allows. But I grew from about 190 to 250 from grade 9 to 12 in highschool with zero supplements. Clearly alot was fat,but alot was muscle too. Still you get the drift
The stronger you get, the stronger you look. Focus on the things that’ll make you stronger and everything else will fall into place.
[quote]jake_richardson wrote:
[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
I would be careful adding in extra assistance exercises, it might take away from the main movements, and you might end up doing more harm than good. Sometimes less is best. And no you do not need the supplements but Jim is just telling you what works for him. I simply cannot afford the supplements at this time, except Indigo-3G and Surge Recovery, but hopefully someday will be able to get on Plazma.[/quote]
I can’t afford the book right now so will i be ok with just working off the article here on T Nation?[/quote]
The Articles are good but the book is better, its only about a tenner on Amazon (UK) even less on the kindle version its worth the money I promise you.
If you are following the templates on this website just do the program as it’s written. No need to add in any other movements for hypertrophy. Jim wouldn’t put his work out there if he didn’t believe in it so there’s no reason for you not to believe in it working for you as it is.
Don’t worry about supplements at your age. Just eat good quality food and take advantage of the fact you are young. If you put some effort into your training you are gonna get stronger and bigger.
And get the book when you save up some money or ask your parents for it for your birthday or something. It’s worth every penny.
Just don’t over complicate things and you’ll be fine
[quote]Rupert531 wrote:
The stronger you get, the stronger you look. Focus on the things that’ll make you stronger and everything else will fall into place.[/quote]
This just isn’t true. It’s entirely possible to get stronger with no visible physical change in muscularity or size.
I don’t see how doing 5/3/1 with hypertrophy assistance, especially if it is targeted to improve visibly weak areas, wouldn’t lead to an increase in mass.
[quote]amayakyrol wrote:
[quote]Rupert531 wrote:
The stronger you get, the stronger you look. Focus on the things that’ll make you stronger and everything else will fall into place.[/quote]
This just isn’t true. It’s entirely possible to get stronger with no visible physical change in muscularity or size.
I don’t see how doing 5/3/1 with hypertrophy assistance, especially if it is targeted to improve visibly weak areas, wouldn’t lead to an increase in mass. [/quote]
I’ve got to agree with amayakyrol on this one. I’ve lifted for years doing powerlifting and other strength oriented training rather than physique-focused training, and I get constantly underestimated because of how I look. Some don’t even believe I lift, or don’t believe my numbers when I tell them. So I started posting up the occasional youtube vid for proof. People make comments like “You’re big-boned” or “You have a big frame.” My ass. I was a skinny bastard before I ever lifted. My arms even reflect that of a powerlifter. Because of the way I’ve trained all these years I don’t have very impressive biceps, and my triceps are overdeveloped down toward the elbow for pressing with an underdeveloped horseshoe at the top. Hence the big bone and big frame comments. I have a thick torso too after years of squatting and deadlifting. I’m definitely lacking the Hollywood look of a bodybuilder, despite respectable numbers in the gym. I have a 300+lb bench press at just over 200lbs bodyweight, but do not have big pecs.
Moroever, two months ago I started doing more hypertrophy type training with my 5/3/1 template, based largely off of this article A Tried and True Bodybuilding Program Template and the results are nothing short of amazing. I’ve gained 9 quality pounds in two months despite losing an inch around my waist, and when I get arm pumps it feels like my skin is going to tear. My shoulders are starting to look capped, my quads have come up and my chest has made more progress than it ever has before doing powerlifting workouts.
I want to be strong, but I also want to look strong. Being underestimated is cool sometimes, but it’s tiresome and annoying once you’ve been dealing with it for years always having a chip on your shoulder like you have something to prove.
[quote]Juggs wrote:
[quote]amayakyrol wrote:
[quote]Rupert531 wrote:
The stronger you get, the stronger you look. Focus on the things that’ll make you stronger and everything else will fall into place.[/quote]
This just isn’t true. It’s entirely possible to get stronger with no visible physical change in muscularity or size.
I don’t see how doing 5/3/1 with hypertrophy assistance, especially if it is targeted to improve visibly weak areas, wouldn’t lead to an increase in mass. [/quote]
I’ve got to agree with amayakyrol on this one. I’ve lifted for years doing powerlifting and other strength oriented training rather than physique-focused training, and I get constantly underestimated because of how I look. Some don’t even believe I lift, or don’t believe my numbers when I tell them. So I started posting up the occasional youtube vid for proof. People make comments like “You’re big-boned” or “You have a big frame.” My ass. I was a skinny bastard before I ever lifted. My arms even reflect that of a powerlifter. Because of the way I’ve trained all these years I don’t have very impressive biceps, and my triceps are overdeveloped down toward the elbow for pressing with an underdeveloped horseshoe at the top. Hence the big bone and big frame comments. I have a thick torso too after years of squatting and deadlifting. I’m definitely lacking the Hollywood look of a bodybuilder, despite respectable numbers in the gym. I have a 300+lb bench press at just over 200lbs bodyweight, but do not have big pecs.
Moroever, two months ago I started doing more hypertrophy type training with my 5/3/1 template, based largely off of this article A Tried and True Bodybuilding Program Template and the results are nothing short of amazing. I’ve gained 9 quality pounds in two months despite losing an inch around my waist, and when I get arm pumps it feels like my skin is going to tear. My shoulders are starting to look capped, my quads have come up and my chest has made more progress than it ever has before doing powerlifting workouts.
I want to be strong, but I also want to look strong. Being underestimated is cool sometimes, but it’s tiresome and annoying once you’ve been dealing with it for years always having a chip on your shoulder like you have something to prove. [/quote]
Good post. I have been doing the 4 day routine from beyond 5/3/1 book, and adding in bodybuilding assistance. This is letting me hit each bodypart twice per week, which is a good amount of stimulation for growth.
[quote]aspengc8 wrote:
Good post. I have been doing the 4 day routine from beyond 5/3/1 book, and adding in bodybuilding assistance. This is letting me hit each bodypart twice per week, which is a good amount of stimulation for growth.
[/quote]
Thanks. Yeah, I don’t see why we can’t use the 5/3/1 template for hypertrophy or bodybuilding oriented training. If you’re keeping in line with the principles of start too light, progress slow, focus on big compound movements, etc. then it’s hard to go wrong. It’s worked beautifully for me so far.
Make sure your nutrition supports strength and hypertrophy growth. All the training volume in the world is useless without.
Check out Dan John’s article from yesterday: 10 Secrets to Building Mass
He’s got some really common-sense tips when it comes to major movements for mass.
Until you are at a certain level of strength, the strength-only stuff doesn’t produce enough stimulus for great hypertrophy gains (unless you are completely untrained). 5/3/1 is a main staple of my training, but when I’m looking to build more muscle, I add volume (boring but big or similar assistance-type work).
531 isn’t a program. It’s a mindset.
It’s about getting the fuck in the gym, keeping it simple, working hard and getting the fuck out of there.
It can be applied to almost any fitness goal you desire.