I have done 5/3/1 for the last year, and did not get the gains I want due to a poor diet in the beginning(I have fixed it up recently…). I decided to do Boring But Big template recently with a fixed diet and gained 10-15 lbs, but my lifts did not go up by much other than my deadlift.
I want to start from scratch with a new program that I can stick with for a long while, should I reset on 5/3/1, start up a SS cycle, do WS4SB, or go to split-training (which I’ve never done). I understand that the program doesn’t matter, it depends on what I eat, and how consistent I am, but I was wondering if it would be a good idea to reset my numbers on 5/3/1 and start that over or not since that seems to be the most effective program for strength gains.
Here are my numbers:
20 yrs old
5’10-5’11 185-190 lbs
Maxes as of recently-
Squat (havent maxed in the longest, just an understimation)-260ish easy?
Deadlift- 315x4
Bench 195x2
Military 135-145ish
My goal is to get stronger and gain muscle without gaining too much bodyfat. I would like to do split training or a bodybuilding type program since i havent done one since when i first began lifting. I just am not sure how the progression goes with those type of programs…
[quote]Lol312 wrote:
My goal is to get stronger and gain muscle without gaining too much bodyfat. I would like to do split training or a bodybuilding type program since i havent done one since when i first began lifting. I just am not sure how the progression goes with those type of programs…[/quote]
You can use 5/3/1 on the big lifts in conjuction with a bodypart split.
[quote]Lol312 wrote:
My goal is to get stronger and gain muscle without gaining too much bodyfat. I would like to do split training or a bodybuilding type program since i havent done one since when i first began lifting. I just am not sure how the progression goes with those type of programs…[/quote]
You can use 5/3/1 on the big lifts in conjuction with a bodypart split.
Example:
Day1: bench + chest and biceps.
Day2: squat + quads and hams.
Day3: OHpress + delts and triceps.
Day4: deadlift + lats and upperback.
Just and idea.
[/quote]
BAM. Jim even laid out the program and discussed it here.
Day 1: Shoulders and Biceps
Standing Military Press ? 5/3/1
DB Military Press ? 4 x12
Side Laterals/Rear Laterals ? 4 x12
Barbell Curls ? 4 x12
Preacher Curls ? 4 x10
Day 2: Back + Abs
Deadlift ? 5/3/1
Bent Over Rows ? 4 x12
Chin ups ? 4 x10 (or do Lat Pulldowns)
Good Mornings ? 4 x10
Hanging Leg Raises ? 4 x12
Day 3: Chest and Triceps
Bench Press ? 5/3/1
Weighted Dips ? 4 x10
DB Flyes ? 4 x12
Triceps Pushdowns ? 5 x 20
Push ups ? 4 sets to failure
Day 4: Legs and Abs
Squat ? 5/3/1
Leg Press ? 5 x 15
Leg Curls ? 5 x 15
Leg Extensions ? 4 x12
Ab Wheel ? 4 x12
So when I do the assistance exercises, when it says 4x10 or 4x12, do I work up to one set of 12 at a heavier weight to finish it off (example- Bent over rows 135x10,145x10,150x10,155x10 or 145 4x10?). Also, I’m guessing none of these should be to failure? I am going to substitute the leg press for bulgarians or front squats and the triceps pushdowns for either floor presses or tricep extensions probabaly, there is nothing wrong with that right?
Do you have a copy of the book? I do 5/3/1 and it looks like you are doing way too much accessory work. If you are doing the big lifts properly there is no way you are going to have the energy to do all that fluff.
Take bench. Lets say you are benching with the final set with a weight of, say, 85kg (190lb). Your final set is for as many reps as you can over the set reps (either 5 or 3 or 1 reps, depending on the week). So you knuckle down and get in 9 reps. Your chest is heaving, your arms are wobbly, you are seeing black spots, you are gasping for air, you need to sit down or hold onto something before you black out.
Now you gonna go do 17 sets of chest work? I think not. You are cutting back on the important movement for fluff.
Max lifts are for one rep. No one gets onto a platform and does more than one rep. Your whole program is based on your one rep max. So you gotta do a few workouts where, after a deload week, you test your one rep max for each lift. It’s time well spent.
Like many people, you are majoring in the minors. You can get bigger and stronger without any assistance work. It’s just fine tuning. It’s assistance. Not primary.
If you have a look at Wendler’s web site you will see that it’s questions about accessory work that drives him nuts.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
Do you have a copy of the book? I do 5/3/1 and it looks like you are doing way too much accessory work. If you are doing the big lifts properly there is no way you are going to have the energy to do all that fluff.
[/quote]
On Wendler’s website he recommends “keep(ing) the reps on the final set to just the bare minimum or just slightly over.” for this particular template.
If the OP wants to do some big lifts after his final set like front squats and floor press, the Simplest Strength Template from the 2nd edition or BBB would be great. I’m about to start the SST and you have to get your maxes for the big assistance lifts first (e.g front squat, RDL, Incline press etc). This template has a nice progression built in so no confusion over when to increase the weight on the assistance lifts.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
Do you have a copy of the book? I do 5/3/1 and it looks like you are doing way too much accessory work. If you are doing the big lifts properly there is no way you are going to have the energy to do all that fluff.
Take bench. Lets say you are benching with the final set with a weight of, say, 85kg (190lb). Your final set is for as many reps as you can over the set reps (either 5 or 3 or 1 reps, depending on the week). So you knuckle down and get in 9 reps. Your chest is heaving, your arms are wobbly, you are seeing black spots, you are gasping for air, you need to sit down or hold onto something before you black out.
Now you gonna go do 17 sets of chest work? I think not. You are cutting back on the important movement for fluff.
Max lifts are for one rep. No one gets onto a platform and does more than one rep. Your whole program is based on your one rep max. So you gotta do a few workouts where, after a deload week, you test your one rep max for each lift. It’s time well spent.
Like many people, you are majoring in the minors. You can get bigger and stronger without any assistance work. It’s just fine tuning. It’s assistance. Not primary.
If you have a look at Wendler’s web site you will see that it’s questions about accessory work that drives him nuts.
[quote]Lol312 wrote:
Day 1: Shoulders and Biceps
Standing Military Press ? 5/3/1
DB Military Press ? 4 x12
Side Laterals/Rear Laterals ? 4 x12
Barbell Curls ? 4 x12
Preacher Curls ? 4 x10
Day 2: Back + Abs
Deadlift ? 5/3/1
Bent Over Rows ? 4 x12
Chin ups ? 4 x10 (or do Lat Pulldowns)
Good Mornings ? 4 x10
Hanging Leg Raises ? 4 x12
Day 3: Chest and Triceps
Bench Press ? 5/3/1
Weighted Dips ? 4 x10
DB Flyes ? 4 x12
Triceps Pushdowns ? 5 x 20
Push ups ? 4 sets to failure
Day 4: Legs and Abs
Squat ? 5/3/1
Leg Press ? 5 x 15
Leg Curls ? 5 x 15
Leg Extensions ? 4 x12
Ab Wheel ? 4 x12
So when I do the assistance exercises, when it says 4x10 or 4x12, do I work up to one set of 12 at a heavier weight to finish it off (example- Bent over rows 135x10,145x10,150x10,155x10 or 145 4x10?). Also, I’m guessing none of these should be to failure? I am going to substitute the leg press for bulgarians or front squats and the triceps pushdowns for either floor presses or tricep extensions probabaly, there is nothing wrong with that right?[/quote]
yes, keep a rep in the tank. Dont’ worry too much about the details for accessory work just focus on making the targeted muscle work and getting a good pump
Wait, so with my stats, would it be beneficial to do 5/3/1 the bodybuilding split that wendler wrote up in his article on here, or should I stick with one of the more simpler strength routines that he has in his book?
[quote]Lol312 wrote:
Wait, so with my stats, would it be beneficial to do 5/3/1 the bodybuilding split that wendler wrote up in his article on here, or should I stick with one of the more simpler strength routines that he has in his book?[/quote]