Better Than the Best

Off Topic
41

i think its a possibility that people may perform better, faster, stronger than those that are viewed as being the best but i think that this is definitely circumstantial to what sport or activity it is. I think physical activities are much harder to say “oh jow schmoe is prolli the best in the world… better than (insert name here)…” is there a possibility? there’s always a possibility… but is it likely? i think that depends on the sport… in terms of speed and natural ability i’d prolli say yes usain bolt is prolli the fastest guy in the world… one cannot train speed… i can’t go out and say im gonna train to be faster than usain bolt and succeed… just like i can’t say im gonna be obsessed with basketball and get better than MJ…

taking the basketball example… from what i read is some street baller is nicknamed the greatest of all time but he developed a heroin habit… u know why he’s not the greatest? cuz he got addicted to drugs not cuz he didn’t play in the NBA or didn’t get a chance to play… he created his own demons… also basketball is a team sport… when abdul-jabbar said that this guy was the best player he played against it seemed like it was a 1v1 and he was at the end of his career… what does that say? NOTHING… is this guy the best basketball player? imo… hell no not by a long shot, he got addicted to drugs and shot himself in the foot thats not to say that the possibility wasn’t there…

taking the situation in the other thread about LWH lifting 495 6-15 reps… is it possible? in this case hell yes… 1. the guy is huge 2. he’s played sports at a high level so he’s athletic and has been for a long period of time… i think people forget that there’s other factors such as form, etc that can affect how much weight u can push… im short so its easier for me to lift a heavier bench press than someone thats 6’6…

the thing that got me was that everyone was so quick to jump down his throat saying professional lifters can’t hit that on incline so how can he? but if LWH has been inclining for the last 20+ years would that not set him up to be able to hit such a lift? Just like powerlifters have been squatting 20+ years sets them up to squat a ton more than me or you… building strength and muscle and playing basketball is different… it doesn’t take skill to build muscle just hard work and dedication both of which LWH has more than proved through his AVI imo…

just my 2 cents

42

I can eat more hamburgers than professor X.

43

[quote]DJHT wrote:
WTF is GOAT? Sorry I stopped watching basketball when Bird retired. [/quote]

Greatest
Of
All
Time

GOAT

44

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
because his nickname was GOAT he was the greatest? LMFAO

Those streetballers PLAY NO FUCKING DEFENSE! There are tons and tons of guys who can shoot the lights out in the gym but cant hold their own on the defensive end and thats why they cant play in the league or cant get off the bench.

Jordan was on the NBA All Defense team tons of times. Just cause he scored the ball at will didnt make him the GOAT, he was also a great defender.

[/quote]

Again, did anyone read the article?
[/quote]

also, can you please point out the part, in either of those articles, that disputes what I say?

Both those articles talked about how good of a shooter, jumper and dunker he was… NOTHING about defense (which is why I said most guys cant make it in the NBA)[/quote]

No, and you can’t point out any parts that dispute what I say.
[/quote]

lol at your reasoning.

They list all of his positive playing attributes in each of those articles.

They even say “Just to prove that dunking wasnt his only skill he would practice jump shots all day”

Never once did they mention Defense.

45

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
Are you serious with this question? There were reasons listed in the articles and probably a few more we will never know about.
[/quote]

the part about his two stints in prison? The two prison terms he served when he was almost 40 & 50 (which would have been after his potential NBA career was over)

or the fact that he had disagreements with his coach in college? Thats probably the real reason cause players in the NBA never disagree with their coaches.

or was it the part where he started smoking marijuana? No on in the NBA (especially in the 60’s) ever smoked. That had to be it then?[/quote]

I know what you’re getting at, but all these instances point to deeper personal problems. There are most likely other events that held him back. The ones in article are known, what isn’t?

Both sides of this argument are useless. It reminds me of a god debate, where those saying this probably wouldn’t happen are on the atheist side, and those saying it is probable, are on the side of god. It may be up to the ones who say it is probable to prove it, but it will never happen, and vise versa. You know…until you get to heaven anyway. Bazinga.

But, in this case, statistically speaking, if one person can get to a certain level, then another person is able to get to a higher level.

46

[quote]kothreat wrote:
But, in this case, statistically speaking, if one person can get to a certain level, then another person is able to get to a higher level.
[/quote]

I already (basically) said this^^ (so we agree on that part)

I said that records were made to be broken and surpassed but to say a random guy on the streets or a “recreational” anything is better than the best is ludicrous.

will another professional athlete come along that is better? Maybe, possibly… but a random that does it ‘for the love of the game’? Please

47

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
because his nickname was GOAT he was the greatest? LMFAO

Those streetballers PLAY NO FUCKING DEFENSE! There are tons and tons of guys who can shoot the lights out in the gym but cant hold their own on the defensive end and thats why they cant play in the league or cant get off the bench.

Jordan was on the NBA All Defense team tons of times. Just cause he scored the ball at will didnt make him the GOAT, he was also a great defender.

[/quote]

Again, did anyone read the article?
[/quote]

also, can you please point out the part, in either of those articles, that disputes what I say?

Both those articles talked about how good of a shooter, jumper and dunker he was… NOTHING about defense (which is why I said most guys cant make it in the NBA)[/quote]

No, and you can’t point out any parts that dispute what I say.
[/quote]

lol at your reasoning.

They list all of his positive playing attributes in each of those articles.

They even say “Just to prove that dunking wasnt his only skill he would practice jump shots all day”

Never once did they mention Defense.
[/quote]

Why lol at my reasoning? All I’m trying to say is, no one will ever know. Why is this such a touchy subject. If it’s reasoning that is being used, then one must reason that it is probable that such people exist.

48

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
WTF is GOAT? Sorry I stopped watching basketball when Bird retired. [/quote]

Greatest
Of
All
Time

GOAT[/quote]

Thanks Greg, senior moment.

49

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
But, in this case, statistically speaking, if one person can get to a certain level, then another person is able to get to a higher level.
[/quote]

I already (basically) said this^^ (so we agree on that part)

I said that records were made to be broken and surpassed but to say a random guy on the streets or a “recreational” anything is better than the best is ludicrous.

will another professional athlete come along that is better? Maybe, possibly… but a random that does it ‘for the love of the game’? Please[/quote]

Perhaps, but all I’m trying to say is that it CAN NOT be ruled out. A bunch of people are saying this is impossible and could never happen. Well, it could.

For the most part I think we do agree.

50

[quote]kothreat wrote:
Why lol at my reasoning? All I’m trying to say is, no one will ever know. Why is this such a touchy subject. If it’s reasoning that is being used, then one must reason that it is probable that such people exist. [/quote]

lol at your reasoning because you’re trying to be vague and skirt around the issue. You’re trying to use all these hypothetical “what if’s”

Next you’ll say that there could be someone in the world with the same powers as Superman. “No one will ever know” and cant prove that there isnt such a person… so there must be.

I guess there is no point discussing this anymore since you’ve gone so far off the deep end.

51

[quote]kothreat wrote:

For the most part I think we do agree.
[/quote]

Just in a T-Nation sort of way.

52

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
You know what, I bet there are recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders. Different paths in life. One got into competitive lifting while another derives joy by doing it alone.
[/quote]

you bet there are “recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders”???

You cant be serious with this.

I bet there are recreational runners out there who would win the Boston Marathon… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational swimmers out there who would out swim Michael Phelps… But they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational sprinters out there who would beat Usain Bolt in the 100m… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

do you see how absolutely dumb that is?

Records are made to be broken and, theoretically, they all will be broken in time… but saying that a “recreational” anything would beat the greatest person at that sport is absolutely ridiculous.[/quote]

I see how absolutely dumb it is on both sides.
[/quote]

You act like people of this caliber would not be noticed by others, are they hermits living completely apart from society?[/quote]

This is a possibility. I’m pretty much a hermit and distance myself from society. Although, no superpowers how would anyone know?

You act like everybody that is great at something wants to showcase it.
[/quote]

Being great at something means you have to practice something. Someone can practice their amazing ability in complete solitude their entire life without being noticed for it? Right.

Once again, strongholds post ends this stupid debate.

53

In response to the other thread:

There are no And 1 players that can even hold a canlde to Jordan. Not even close.

Is there a possibility that someone out there can be as good as Jordan if everything went right and they had the right guidance, yada yada yada?

Who cares. When they accomplished what Jordan accomplished than you can say they’re better. Till then, the claim is baseless.

54

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
Why lol at my reasoning? All I’m trying to say is, no one will ever know. Why is this such a touchy subject. If it’s reasoning that is being used, then one must reason that it is probable that such people exist. [/quote]

lol at your reasoning because you’re trying to be vague and skirt around the issue. You’re trying to use all these hypothetical “what if’s”

Next you’ll say that there could be someone in the world with the same powers as Superman. “No one will ever know” and cant prove that there isnt so there must be.

I guess there is no point discussing this anymore since you’ve gone so far off the deep end.
[/quote]

Well that Superman is incredibly silly. We’re talking natural abilities. And, believe the “what if’s” have to be accounted for. To sit there and be 100% sure that no one has better abilities than a GOAT or world record holder is absurd.

55

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
You know what, I bet there are recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders. Different paths in life. One got into competitive lifting while another derives joy by doing it alone.
[/quote]

you bet there are “recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders”???

You cant be serious with this.

I bet there are recreational runners out there who would win the Boston Marathon… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational swimmers out there who would out swim Michael Phelps… But they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational sprinters out there who would beat Usain Bolt in the 100m… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

do you see how absolutely dumb that is?

Records are made to be broken and, theoretically, they all will be broken in time… but saying that a “recreational” anything would beat the greatest person at that sport is absolutely ridiculous.[/quote]

I see how absolutely dumb it is on both sides.
[/quote]

You act like people of this caliber would not be noticed by others, are they hermits living completely apart from society?[/quote]

This is a possibility. I’m pretty much a hermit and distance myself from society. Although, no superpowers how would anyone know?

You act like everybody that is great at something wants to showcase it.
[/quote]

Being great at something means you have to practice something. Someone can practice their amazing ability in complete solitude their entire life without being noticed for it? Right.

Once again, strongholds post ends this stupid debate.
[/quote]

I agree this is a stupid debate. And, yes I do believe it’s possible for someone to become great at something without being noticed.

56

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
You know what, I bet there are recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders. Different paths in life. One got into competitive lifting while another derives joy by doing it alone.
[/quote]

you bet there are “recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders”???

You cant be serious with this.

I bet there are recreational runners out there who would win the Boston Marathon… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational swimmers out there who would out swim Michael Phelps… But they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational sprinters out there who would beat Usain Bolt in the 100m… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

do you see how absolutely dumb that is?

Records are made to be broken and, theoretically, they all will be broken in time… but saying that a “recreational” anything would beat the greatest person at that sport is absolutely ridiculous.[/quote]

I see how absolutely dumb it is on both sides.
[/quote]

You act like people of this caliber would not be noticed by others, are they hermits living completely apart from society?[/quote]

This is a possibility. I’m pretty much a hermit and distance myself from society. Although, no superpowers how would anyone know?

You act like everybody that is great at something wants to showcase it.
[/quote]

Being great at something means you have to practice something. Someone can practice their amazing ability in complete solitude their entire life without being noticed for it? Right.

Once again, strongholds post ends this stupid debate.
[/quote]

I agree this is a stupid debate. And, yes I do believe it’s possible for someone to become great at something without being noticed.
[/quote]

If I may use myself as an example. I kicked some crazy as at trivial pursuit. Against a guy that I’ve known for years. You know what he said at the end of the game? ‘I didn’t realize you were that smart’ (read: knew so much useless shit). Why? Because of my level of introversion I don’t go around displaying my abilities errr whatever, fuck.

This may be a reason why all you crazy extroverts have a tough time realizing there are people out there that do things solely for themselves.

57

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
because his nickname was GOAT he was the greatest? LMFAO

Those streetballers PLAY NO FUCKING DEFENSE! There are tons and tons of guys who can shoot the lights out in the gym but cant hold their own on the defensive end and thats why they cant play in the league or cant get off the bench.

Jordan was on the NBA All Defense team tons of times. Just cause he scored the ball at will didnt make him the GOAT, he was also a great defender.

[/quote]

Again, did anyone read the article?
[/quote]

yes I have and I know who that player is. if he played with Wilt and Wilt thought he was the best basketball player of all time why wouldnt he be in the NBA? Why wouldnt a team pick him up?[/quote]

Are you serious with this question? There were reasons listed in the articles and probably a few more we will never know about.
[/quote]

If I remember correctly he had a drug problem and had a bit of an attitude problem which was part of the reason why he wasn’t picked up to play on any top team. There is a park named in harlem after him. Also a movie about him where Don Cheadle played him.

As far as the subject is concerned I believe the difference between MJ and the around the hood guy who COULD be MJ is opportunity. Some of these guys go to shitty schools that get no attention from scouts. Some of them aren’t really into the strict regimen of organized sports and would rather play recreational. Others have attitude problems.

Just because your talented it doesn’t mean that you AUTOMATICALLY will be brought into the profession. A lot of the kids who play in the And 1 league don’t play defense and can’t shoot a jumper for shit. But you know what, there are plenty of dudes in the NBA who can’t do that, shit Shawn Bradley made a career out of being a tall dufus.

He couldn’t do shit other than stand in the paint and get dunked on. He went through the proper channels and got into the NBA.
that’s what separates some talented people from the others.

Also what did guys do before the advent of youtube? Does everything have to be video taped to be true? I had some unbelievable shit happen to me in the course of my life and when I tell my friends they believe me because of the person I am, they don’t need video evidence to believe the story.

I can see where “pics/vids or it didn’t” would come into play in this situation but I also believe in given a person who has proven themselves a quality poster and the physicality of a strong person,the benefit of the doubt.

And you know what…just to be a dick I’m gonna play the race card, racist bastards.

58

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
Although highly improbable, you can not rule out the possibility these people exist. Definitely nothing to get your panties in a knot about.

As a young kid, talking 7-9, when ever we were getting ready for the annual track and field day, the teacher would always use my long jump form as an example of “air walk”. I was good in a lot of track events, quite good. But, I lived in a small shitty town with no coaching or track programs.

What if I would have grown up in a larger centre with proper coaching, training, etc? I could be a gold medal olympian. But, that support was not available, and it was just a fun thing to us kids.

There are people out there that have incredible natural ability. This ability may not be fostered to it’s ultimate growth potential. So yeah, there are people out there that may be the best in the world at something, but for various reasons have never realized this potential. Or, perhaps have realized this potential, but because they do it for themselves, have no desire to display it. It is also fact that Jordan did not make his high school team. What if this would have deterred him from ever picking up a ball again? We all know it didn’t happen this way. He practices his god damned ass off. It was his hard work and dedication that got him to the level he achieved.

Too many variables to consider. No one can be sure one way or the other. I don’t understand why this is such a touchy topic for some. [/quote]

Another distinction: It’s one thing to say so and so COULD have been the GOAT if they had the coaching, drive, etc. It’s a whole other ball game to say so and so IS BETTER than the GOAT. Which is what some members of this site were saying in the other thread. They were claiming street ball players out there currently are better than MJ. And that there are recreational power lifters out there with better lifts than world record holders.

Big distinction.
[/quote]

You know what, I bet there are recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders. Different paths in life. One got into competitive lifting while another derives joy by doing it alone.

We can never know. So, to say that every GOAT has always been in the public spotlight is unreasonable.

Wasn’t there a baller from back in the day, actually nicknamed Goat? That was considered the best, but never played professional. I’ll check the interwebs and see if I can find him.
[/quote]

Found him:

http://www.suite101.com/content/earl-quotthe-goatquot-manigaults-story-a33469

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Manigault[/quote]

Didn’t read the links and don’t need to. You’re talking about Earl Maingault, and he is more urban legend than anything. Kareem said he was the best player he’d seen not in the NBA. There was all kinds of legends about him touching the top of the backboard, or even more absurd taking a dollar off the top and leaving change but there wasn’t one person who could verify it. The bottom line is he was a talented ball player who did well against shitty competition but couldn’t hack it against the big dogs. End of story.

59

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
You know what, I bet there are recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders. Different paths in life. One got into competitive lifting while another derives joy by doing it alone.
[/quote]

you bet there are “recreational lifters out there that have better lifts than world record holders”???

You cant be serious with this.

I bet there are recreational runners out there who would win the Boston Marathon… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational swimmers out there who would out swim Michael Phelps… But they just love the joy of doing it alone.

I bet there are recreational sprinters out there who would beat Usain Bolt in the 100m… but they just love the joy of doing it alone.

do you see how absolutely dumb that is?

Records are made to be broken and, theoretically, they all will be broken in time… but saying that a “recreational” anything would beat the greatest person at that sport is absolutely ridiculous.[/quote]

I see how absolutely dumb it is on both sides.
[/quote]

You act like people of this caliber would not be noticed by others, are they hermits living completely apart from society?[/quote]

This is a possibility. I’m pretty much a hermit and distance myself from society. Although, no superpowers how would anyone know?

You act like everybody that is great at something wants to showcase it.
[/quote]

Being great at something means you have to practice something. Someone can practice their amazing ability in complete solitude their entire life without being noticed for it? Right.

Once again, strongholds post ends this stupid debate.
[/quote]

I agree this is a stupid debate. And, yes I do believe it’s possible for someone to become great at something without being noticed.
[/quote]

If I may use myself as an example. I kicked some crazy as at trivial pursuit. Against a guy that I’ve known for years. You know what he said at the end of the game? ‘I didn’t realize you were that smart’ (read: knew so much useless shit). Why? Because of my level of introversion I don’t go around displaying my abilities errr whatever, fuck.

This may be a reason why all you crazy extroverts have a tough time realizing there are people out there that do things solely for themselves.
[/quote]

You really just compared you winning at a random game of trivial pursuit against a friend to being the best in the entire world at it?

Ok, now go play against the world record holder, if there is one for trivia, and let me know how that goes for you.

You’re gonna need a better example than that, come on…

60

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
You really just compared you winning at a random game of trivial pursuit against a friend to being the best in the entire world at it?

Ok, now go play against the world record holder, if there is one for trivia, and let me know how that goes for you.

You’re gonna need a better example than that, come on…
[/quote]