Get a stronger posterior chain & work on being explosive…
Snatch grip deadlifts off a box
power cleans
dumbbell swings
box squats (louie simmons style)
jump squats (google up some kelly baggett articles)
Bulgarian squats
Practice jumping…a LOT
[quote]Kir Dog wrote:
djm_e22 wrote:
rholdnr wrote:
How much is your 1rm squat rock bottom Oly style?
I have never done those, do you think those will really help me to improve my jump? The only reason I don’t think they will help that much is because when someone jumps they never squat that far down. I might just not be understanding exactly how the will help.
Just because you don’t exactly replicate the body motion between an oly squat and a jump doesn’t mean that doing oly squats won’t help your jumping ability. Oly squats can help. Besides the speed/explosion of the jump, strength is another component that helps one jump high. An oly squat can help with overall lowerbody strength and flexibility, which are both great ways to assist in helping ones jumping ability.
Oly squats can and should (should is subject to opinion) be both front and back.[/quote]
Thank you for answering for me 
To add to this, I have seen people go pretty far down when they jump, you just don’t realise it because they hunch over and bend their knees (if I can find a pic I’ll post it to show my point). And as another exercise to arouse your concept of jumping, try power snatching, it’s easy to learn and very effective.
“Snatch grip deadlifts off a box”
Don’t you mean on a box, if you were off the box it would just be sitting there next to you. LOL, sorry I had to do that…
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Basketball_game.jpg/200px-Basketball_game.jpg
It takes a little imagination, but while the dude on the left advances he’s going to bend his knees a little more and than jump. It’s just not as noticeable because he’ll be moving throughout, so it’ll be diguised as a walk or turn. Watch a video in slow-mo and you’ll see what I mean.
NOTE This was used for reference purposes, I don’t actually know what is going on.
[quote]Kir Dog wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
If you can grab the rim from standstill, but only get wrist over it from the run, you need to work more on speed. Obviously you have the strength component down. You are one of the rare people I would recommend plyos to (because you obviously have the speed component down), along with jump squats, reactive squats and sprint work. Also, single-leg squats my help improve your run-up strength as well.
Please clarify a few things for me.
First, you said that since he can jump up and grab the rim, yet only get his wrist over from the run he needs to work on speed. Are you talking about speed from a running takeoff or the speed of the jump (which is the fast explosion of the jump)?
Second, you said that he needs to work on his speed then later you said that he is one person that you would recommend plyos to because he obviously has the speed component down. Did you mean strength because you said he needs to work on his speed?
I personally think that he has great explosion from the standstill and the weak link for him is jumping off of the run. Something that I’m trying to fix for myself. Certain plyos would be better for him than others. Just my thoughts on that.[/quote]
Shit, yeah that was a typo. Obviously it’s tough to assess a guy’s exact problem just over the net, but if his running jump isn’t much higher than his standing jump, then he very well might be a case where he is “muscling” the jump too much (I problem I have!). I agree with you about certain types of plyos being better than others. Plyometric work like depth drops or force absorbtion work like drop-snatch or FDA squats probably wouldn’t help this problem. Methods such as sprints, bounds, depth jumps and jump squats where ground contact time is minimized would probably be best.
As I said though, it’s always tough to assess words, especially when I make dumb typos!
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Kir Dog wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
If you can grab the rim from standstill, but only get wrist over it from the run, you need to work more on speed. Obviously you have the strength component down. You are one of the rare people I would recommend plyos to (because you obviously have the speed component down), along with jump squats, reactive squats and sprint work. Also, single-leg squats my help improve your run-up strength as well.
Please clarify a few things for me.
First, you said that since he can jump up and grab the rim, yet only get his wrist over from the run he needs to work on speed. Are you talking about speed from a running takeoff or the speed of the jump (which is the fast explosion of the jump)?
Second, you said that he needs to work on his speed then later you said that he is one person that you would recommend plyos to because he obviously has the speed component down. Did you mean strength because you said he needs to work on his speed?
I personally think that he has great explosion from the standstill and the weak link for him is jumping off of the run. Something that I’m trying to fix for myself. Certain plyos would be better for him than others. Just my thoughts on that.
Shit, yeah that was a typo. Obviously it’s tough to assess a guy’s exact problem just over the net, but if his running jump isn’t much higher than his standing jump, then he very well might be a case where he is “muscling” the jump too much (I problem I have!). I agree with you about certain types of plyos being better than others. Plyometric work like depth drops or force absorbtion work like drop-snatch or FDA squats probably wouldn’t help this problem. Methods such as sprints, bounds, depth jumps and jump squats where ground contact time is minimized would probably be best.
As I said though, it’s always tough to assess words, especially when I make dumb typos![/quote]
It’s all good with the typos, it happens occasionally. I was pretty sure that it was just a mistake with one word, speed meaning strength on that original last paragraph.
I totally agree with you that from just an online assesment of the original poster, he should do depth jumps and squat jumps.
Keep up the good posts jtrinsey!
[quote]djm_e22 wrote:
I am thinking of performing quarter squats to help improve my vertical. But before I do them I wanted to make sure that quarter squats are the best type of squat for improving my vertical jump. I will be performing plyo’s as well. I am still going to be performing exercises like good mornings to hit my hams and glutes. I weigh 145lbs and have parallel squated 365lbs 7 times. But now I really want to work on dunking. I am only 5 foot 7 and am white(hehe). Figured it would be cool to be a white Spud Webb. I probably won’t ever reach his vertical status but I am willing to work on it.[/quote]
Sorry dude, you gotta squat all the way down. The squat is the best strength builder for vertical jumping. Gotta go ass to the floor. If your doin it parallel you aint doin it.
Hit them plyo’s.
Dont worry about race or height. Ive seen so many unathletic, slow black people here in detroit I don’t really buy into the race thing. Im 5’7 too. I weigh a little more than you(about 160) and I can squat 375 and vertically leap 32 inch and I havent been training seriously very long at all. You can do it to. Don’t worry about height. One could argue that at your height its easier to squat bigger weights. A heavier squat will translate into more horsepower for jumping.
I sent you a PM for a usefull link.
It sounds like you have a strong lower body. I would recommend working on your core:Farmer Walk Lunges, Lunges with a Medicine ball (hold ball out in front arms locked when going down and up). I would also add a serious dose of cleans for more explosive power.
Deadlifts, Regular, run of the mill deadlifts. Mimic jumping much better than any squat does.
I guess you can also make an argument for power lifting style squats. Low bar, wide stance. These really hit the posterior chain hard. Jumping requires good posterior strength that can help generate quick jumping power.
How about jump squats?
It’s really hard to determine which squat is best for the vertical. Someone may benefit from one type of squat as another person may benefit from another. Some people benefit more from another because of mechanical leverages and natural strenghts. Physically, we are all different, and we all may benefit from different things.
[quote]Kir Dog wrote:
I guess you can also make an argument for power lifting style squats. Low bar, wide stance. These really hit the posterior chain hard. Jumping requires good posterior strength that can help generate quick jumping power.
How about jump squats?
It’s really hard to determine which squat is best for the vertical. Someone may benefit from one type of squat as another person may benefit from another. Some people benefit more from another because of mechanical leverages and natural strenghts. Physically, we are all different, and we all may benefit from different things.[/quote]
I think that is pretty much the nail on the head. The best at one time might be exactly what you DON’T need another time.
his ratio of running to standing jump seems pretty normal to me
not everyone will get more than 10% over than standing jump from a run, unless they have structural advantages for reactivity.
My running jump isn’t that much higher than my standing, even though I’m fairly “reactive”. And no amount of training would change that too much
I just don’t have the type of structure that would allow 6+ inch gains from a runup. But that’s fine with me, I hate running up to jump. One step is all need to get near max height. I’m more into rebounding, so having a good and quick standing or one step jump is what I prefer
Chances are if your good at getting much higher off the run, then your standing jump won’t be as good as other folks who don’t get as high with a run. You win some, you lose some.
While others are somwhere inbetween
[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
his ratio of running to standing jump seems pretty normal to me
not everyone will get more than 10% over than standing jump from a run, unless they have structural advantages for reactivity.
My running jump isn’t that much higher than my standing, even though I’m fairly “reactive”. And no amount of training would change that too much
I just don’t have the type of structure that would allow 6+ inch gains from a runup. But that’s fine with me, I hate running up to jump. One step is all need to get near max height. I’m more into rebounding, so having a good and quick standing or one step jump is what I prefer
Chances are if your good at getting much higher off the run, then your standing jump won’t be as good as other folks who don’t get as high with a run. You win some, you lose some.
While others are somwhere inbetween
[/quote]
You really think that’s true? We tested our standing and approach verticals for my college volleyball team and almost everybody was in the 6"-8" range higher off the approach. Of course, almost everybody is like 6’4" and lanky so maybe we are more built for reactivity?
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
You really think that’s true? We tested our standing and approach verticals for my college volleyball team and almost everybody was in the 6"-8" range higher off the approach. Of course, almost everybody is like 6’4" and lanky so maybe we are more built for reactivity?[/quote]
your only speaking of your own small sample of people.
I played bball for years before I even touched weights, so I was definitely reactive and had good movement effeciency and did hours of jumping every week during that time.
The facts were - I jumped pretty well off a stand and off one step, and only got up one inch higher than my one step jump off a run. That hasn’t changed too much even after getting way stronger and faster. I’m more a strength based type jumper, as even back then tended to prefer jumping off 2 legs. But both my 2 legged and running one leg jumps are about the same, with the 2 legged one being slightly better the heavier I get.
All my jumps go up in unison - if my running jump goes up, then so will my standing, one step and running one leg jump.
At my lightest and skinniest at high school. I was basically a one legged only jumper. Funny how that works. Even if I did have a 28 inch standing vertical jump measured in PE…
I think reactive dominance increases the lighter and weaker you get, and the opposite occurs as you get stronger, bigger and heavier…
You can only improve your elasticity so much, it’s genetically and structurally determined. You just spring further the lighter you are.
You guys probably have more tendon dominance than muscles. Chances are your never going be very strong, be known for starting strength, very high standing vertical jumps and have blazing acceleration from a stand.
But you will soar off a run and have good top speed when running I suppose.
Yeah I do feel taller guys on the average store more energy due to physically having longer tendons on the average
[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
You really think that’s true? We tested our standing and approach verticals for my college volleyball team and almost everybody was in the 6"-8" range higher off the approach. Of course, almost everybody is like 6’4" and lanky so maybe we are more built for reactivity?
your only speaking of your own small sample of people.
I played bball for years before I even touched weights, so I was definitely reactive and had good movement effeciency and did hours of jumping every week during that time.
The facts were - I jumped pretty well off a stand and off one step, and only got up one inch higher than my one step jump off a run. That hasn’t changed too much even after getting way stronger and faster. I’m more a strength based type jumper, as even back then tended to prefer jumping off 2 legs. But both my 2 legged and running one leg jumps are about the same, with the 2 legged one being slightly better the heavier I get.
All my jumps go up in unison - if my running jump goes up, then so will my standing, one step and running one leg jump.
At my lightest and skinniest at high school. I was basically a one legged only jumper. Funny how that works. Even if I did have a 28 inch standing vertical jump measured in PE…
I think reactive dominance increases the lighter and weaker you get, and the opposite occurs as you get stronger, bigger and heavier…
You can only improve your elasticity so much, it’s genetically and structurally determined. You just spring further the lighter you are.
You guys probably have more tendon dominance than muscles. Chances are your never going be very strong, be known for starting strength, very high standing vertical jumps and have blazing acceleration from a stand.
But you will soar off a run and have good top speed when running I suppose.
Yeah I do feel taller guys on the average store more energy due to physically having longer tendons on the average[/quote]
Those are some good points. Just to clear up I wasn’t trying to attack you (might’ve seemed that way), just looking to hear some more insight.
You want to hear some freaky reactivity? My roomate touches 10’7" from a standing jump… and 11’6" from a running jump. 11" difference! I touch 10’9" from the stand and 11’2" from the approach and I thought I was super-unreactive haha.
Exactly, what type of structure is that? The reason I ask is that there are European triple jumpers and high jumpers who are about as elastic as Lebron James and don’t possess the mechanical/structural advantages. Stefan Holm comes to mind.
Have you read much on DB Hammer and Kelly Baggetts’ training theories on improving reactivity in the PF and hamstring? There is a lot of evidence that points toward the fact that tendon stiffness can be improved.
Dont’ sell yourself short, Colin.
[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
his ratio of running to standing jump seems pretty normal to me
not everyone will get more than 10% over than standing jump from a run, unless they have structural advantages for reactivity.
My running jump isn’t that much higher than my standing, even though I’m fairly “reactive”. And no amount of training would change that too much
I just don’t have the type of structure that would allow 6+ inch gains from a runup. But that’s fine with me, I hate running up to jump. One step is all need to get near max height. I’m more into rebounding, so having a good and quick standing or one step jump is what I prefer
Chances are if your good at getting much higher off the run, then your standing jump won’t be as good as other folks who don’t get as high with a run. You win some, you lose some.
While others are somwhere inbetween
[/quote]
Personally, I’d recommend box squats from slightly below parallel with bands. I’ve been doing these for only 2-3 weeks and just recently I was able to grab rim with both hands for the first time and I just feel lighter on my feet in general when jumping.
Read up on some westside stuff in relation to box squatting with bands somewhere on elitefts.com. It was pretty helpful to me
Going ass to grass is necessary for vertical jump? First time I ever heard that one…
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
Going ass to grass is necessary for vertical jump? First time I ever heard that one…[/quote]
Full squats incorporate more of the hamstrings and glutes. Jumping power comes primarily from the glutes and hammies. There is nothing worse than quad dominant athlete. He will tend to muscle everything including running and jumping. A person who only does half squats or squats to parallel wont’ get as much ham development.
[quote]TrenchDawg wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
Going ass to grass is necessary for vertical jump? First time I ever heard that one…
Full squats incorporate more of the hamstrings and glutes. Jumping power comes primarily from the glutes and hammies. There is nothing worse than quad dominant athlete. He will tend to muscle everything including running and jumping. A person who only does half squats or squats to parallel wont’ get as much ham development.[/quote]
TrenchDawg,
I disagree to some extent. I agree that for running, there is nothing worse than poor hamstring development. However, just think about the motion that is involved in jumping, the knee bend is typically going to be right at about 30 degrees and even less for a run-up jump. The quads are just as, if not more, important for a vertical jump than the posterior chain.
However, I think anybody will agree that the key is to address your weaknesses. IMO, the reason that posterior-chain exercises are so important for vertical jump is that most people are ridiculously underdeveloped in that area to begin with. Once an athlete is balanced, I think equal attention should be given to quads and the posterior chain.