Best Style for Self Defense?

Training
121

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
A well thrown elbow to the jaw or temple, if you have been naive enough to let someone close the distance on you that much, will put someone much bigger than you down long enough for you to run like greased weasel shit.[/quote]
Possibly but how often do we see it in fights. Fact is you’ll have to be pretty much be clinching with someone to throw an elbow to their jaw or temple. If you’re clinching you’re likely going to want to use knees to the stomach or push their head down since they will be untrained and knee them to the head. I’m just not certain a elbow to the side of the head will hurt more than a hook.

I think a one-two will put most guys down who don’t train. As long as they aren’t 30-50 pounds bigger than you. [/quote]

A good 1-2 will drop most people, I agree, but oftentimes shit starts in a range that’s not conducive to lining up a good rear straight punch.

And knees are good but like everything else they’re situational. An elbow can do a lot of damage, especially if you pin a dude’s head against the wall or the bar and go to town.[/quote]

Word, mofo, you sound like a bad bastard there mate. I still feel that with experience it is possible to control the distance to play to your strengths, but you’ve got to make the mistakes I guess to reach that point. When you are on the floor with someone bigger than you squashing your head and twisting your ear off and dribbling on you at the same time, you do tend to reach a state of enlightenment, and resolve to do things like less of a plonker in future
[/quote]

I am once again in agreement with Irish and LondonBoxer.

However in the interest of comedy;

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
but you’ve got to make the mistakes I guess to reach that point. When you are on the floor with someone bigger than you squashing your head and twisting your ear off and dribbling on you at the same time,
[/quote]

Getting buck naked and painted yellow tends to discourage other guy from going for this. Just sayin’…

Regards,

Robert A

122

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Your first go to move will be largely determined by your starting range, position, and skill set. If you are close enough to throw an elbow and the opportunity presents itself, go ahead and throw it. Don’t pass up a perfectly good elbow just because you think it “shouldn’t be your first choice”.[/quote]
And 99% of the time that won’t be an elbow. That’s my point. All this talk of what ifs is annoying because obviously you can create a what if scenario where an elbow is practical. My point is you shouldn’t go into a fight looking to get close enough to throw elbows like the guy who was asking about elbows was talking about.

[quote]
Sure, any part of your body can potentially be hurt if it hits something hard enough, but some parts of your body can take more abuse than others. Elbows/forearm strikes can withstand much more impact and are much more resistant to damage than punches.[/quote]
That doesn’t mean they are better than using punches.

I think that if someone has a significant reach advantage over you then they are likely at least 4-6 inches taller than you and you won’t be able to elbow them in the head anyways. I’d rather try to work angles and get inside enough to throw straight punches and kicks than try to clinch with a much bigger guy. I’m not sure but I think a bigger guy could probably just wrap his hands around my body and take me down easy if I tried pulling his head down. I wouldn’t take the risk with someone I don’t know.

I spar with guys that are a lot bigger than me and they kick my ass all the time. Even if I clinched with them I couldn’t do any damage to them because I can only knee them to their legs instead of stomach because of the size difference. You may be able to pull someone’s (who doesn’t train) head down and knee or kick them to the head. I haven’t done it or seen it done though. I’m not certain how easy it would be able to do.

When sparring bigger guys I have to try to get inside enough to throw punches and kick them their legs and body. Throwing a kick to their body is almost like throwing a head kick to someone my size.

And if anyone that takes Muay Thai, because I know we have several here who do, wants to tell me I’m wrong and why I’m wrong, I’m all ears. But I find it odd that people who primarily take boxing are disagreeing with me on using the elbow when you get into fights.

123

[quote]Robert A wrote:
Yoitspmart,

As far as serious answers go; this right here:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
A well thrown elbow to the jaw or temple, if you have been naive enough to let someone close the distance on you that much, will put someone much bigger than you down long enough for you to run like greased weasel shit.[/quote]

I am also going to state that what will allow you to use elbows well is your skill in using range, timing, angles, generating momentum, and ability to use momentum to injure the other guy. All of that will be developed through hours and hours of training the fundamentals.

Elbows are absolutely effective, but if you lack superior skill in the basics they are not going to seem all that useful.

I really think you will be much more dangerous throwing elbows 12 months from now if for the next 6 months you use your “extra” or “additional” workouts to review the things your coac(es) showed you in the previous workout. Even if that means doing 40 minutes of moving around with your hands up, or slowly throwing jab-right, step out until you still do it in your dreams.

Now, as for how elbows fit in with boxing: “Accidental” or “incidental” elbows used to be more common in boxing, but the enforcement of rules has sort of limited them a bit. If you watch tape of Hollyfield you can watch him follow through with an elbow after “missing” his left hook or sneaking a short elbow to the body in fairly often though. This is the “other” way of applying elbows. Not as a big discrete strike, but simply as one more thing to hurt/gouge the other guy with. Not “instead of” the technique, but “in addition to”.

Here is a HL video of Holyfield. Note how he uses his head and elbows at close range. Also, try to find the humor in opening and closing the video with Philippians 4:13 “There is nothing I cannot do in the One who strengthens me.” when I am using it as an example of dirty fighting. Oh, and Holyfield did his level best to duck Lewis contrary to the vid’s maker’s opinion.

Here is an example of elbows being thrown for IMPACT. There is a downward elbow early, and a TKO at the end.

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

Yea i was thinking that and elbow would be more effective because most the fights i see or confrontations that happen at the bar are like when its really crowded and people are trying to walk through the crowds and guys run into other guys or try to act hard and not move out of the way so i figured at such a close distance an elbow strike would work

but id need to work alot more on elbows because idont have confidence in throwing one right now lol thats why i was wondering about tips to throw them more effective

along the lines of your jab right id have to throw a jab left since im a southpaw

and wouldnt you be less likely to suffer and injury throwing an elbow then throwing a punch to the head? just curious about that

124

Grimlorn,

I am going to be completely serious.

I do not think you are wrong.

Sentoguy is not wrong.

You and he are sort of talking (all right, WRITING) past each other a bit.

My impression based on your post are that you are seeing the scenario/situations starting at range and then progressing. Withing this framework than yes a close range strike is not going to be the “first” thing you do. When you referrance sparring or Muy Thai competition this is built into the situation and it absolutely dictates tactics and what techniques to use. None of this is a criticism of your perspective.

Sentoguy seems to be writing within the broader range of “self-defense”. Often times situations “go hot” at different ranges and from different positions than sparring or a kickboxing match. Quite often, and especially if you are legitimately not the aggressor, things get violent at bad breath range. The attacker might get that close by trying to ask a question, or it might be the “posturing”/“monkey dance” FightinIrish has to re-explain every two weeks (Not saying you don’t get it, but damned if someone who doesn’t won’t show up next week.), or plenty of other reasons.

Within this context it is possible that the elbow will be your first/best move because by the time you realize you need to be hitting it may be a “get the fuck off me!” situation. I know the flippant answer will be that situational awareness prevents that. It does. As long as you’re perfect. Then the answer is “keep your distance and don’t let anyone arrest your movement.” Which works, unless you screw up. And now we are stuck damn near nipple to nipple with someone. At that point a bump and an elbow might be your best bet.

I am also not slagging training Muy Thai with an eye to self defense. If you train well once you realize the balloon has gone up, it will serve you well. I am just recognizing that the people who use violence as part of their career path (strong arm/stick up boys) are really good at getting close. People who are arguing with you and working their way up to attacking generally argue at arms length or closer (and thank God for that. If I am saying I am going to kill you while waving my open hands around two feet in front of you I am a problem you solve. If I do it while fishing around in my trunk or reaching behind my hip 30 feet away I am a problem you try to survive.)

Disclosure: I am neither a western boxer nor a nak muay.

Regards,

Robert A

125

[quote]yoitspmart wrote:

Yea i was thinking that and elbow would be more effective[/quote]
More effective vs. less effective is going to be dependant on PRECISELY what is going on, how much or little you are aware of, and what you can manage to do about it. If the “opposition” is worth a damn you are going to be dealing with incomplete or partially inaccurate information (think of a fighter using feints or speed to confuse or overwelm you or a mugger using an excuse to get close).

Excellent examples of when a close range strike would be best. You are on the right track. The only issue is “you don’t get to pick your fight” in self defense. So this may not always be the case.

Just starting out, everything you have is going to need work. It is also going to improve by leaps and bounds if you work it.

I like to use an inward elbow strike to teach the mechanics of a hook. I think I wrote about one of the drills I use in FightinIrish’s log if you want to reference it. If you have any questions about the drill I can go into it.

Well, most obviously you are unlikely to injure your hand or wrist landing an elbow. In general it is an extremely sturdy weapon to use. Sentoguy already mentioned this.

The issue is that if I try to use my elbow without proper footwork/timing/angles on someone with LondonBoxer’s experience I may find myself more concerned with the injuries his hands are doing to me (may they be appropriately sore the next day).

That is a possible reason for Miss Parker and Sentoguy, both of whom teach in addition to training, making it a point to suggest that you simply strive to master what techniques your coach is showing you for now.

Are you training muy thai or western boxing under your coach?

Regards,

Robert A

126

[quote]Robert A wrote:
Grimlorn,

I am going to be completely serious.

I do not think you are wrong.

Sentoguy is not wrong.

You and he are sort of talking (all right, WRITING) past each other a bit.

My impression based on your post are that you are seeing the scenario/situations starting at range and then progressing. Withing this framework than yes a close range strike is not going to be the “first” thing you do. When you referrance sparring or Muy Thai competition this is built into the situation and it absolutely dictates tactics and what techniques to use. None of this is a criticism of your perspective.

Sentoguy seems to be writing within the broader range of “self-defense”. Often times situations “go hot” at different ranges and from different positions than sparring or a kickboxing match. Quite often, and especially if you are legitimately not the aggressor, things get violent at bad breath range. The attacker might get that close by trying to ask a question, or it might be the “posturing”/“monkey dance” FightinIrish has to re-explain every two weeks (Not saying you don’t get it, but damned if someone who doesn’t won’t show up next week.), or plenty of other reasons.

Within this context it is possible that the elbow will be your first/best move because by the time you realize you need to be hitting it may be a “get the fuck off me!” situation. I know the flippant answer will be that situational awareness prevents that. It does. As long as you’re perfect. Then the answer is “keep your distance and don’t let anyone arrest your movement.” Which works, unless you screw up. And now we are stuck damn near nipple to nipple with someone. At that point a bump and an elbow might be your best bet.

I am also not slagging training Muy Thai with an eye to self defense. If you train well once you realize the balloon has gone up, it will serve you well. I am just recognizing that the people who use violence as part of their career path (strong arm/stick up boys) are really good at getting close. People who are arguing with you and working their way up to attacking generally argue at arms length or closer (and thank God for that. If I am saying I am going to kill you while waving my open hands around two feet in front of you I am a problem you solve. If I do it while fishing around in my trunk or reaching behind my hip 30 feet away I am a problem you try to survive.)

Disclosure: I am neither a western boxer nor a nak muay.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]I realize there may be other styles that utilize the elbow differently. I’m actually curious if there is a different style of Muay Thai that uses the elbow more for striking. I know the style I’ve learned is in Dutch Muay Thai and we were primarily taught to use the tip of the elbow to slice across the face to open it up. I know we were taught not to use the elbow for striking, I just can’t remember why. I think it was because you could hurt it or something, but not sure. I’d have to ask about it. I just assumed because the yoitspmart said he was training Muay Thai, he was training at an actual gym that trains it and would want an answer specific to the art he was taking.

127

Dont put too much emphasis on elbows.I rarely saw bouncers that could fight dropping people with elbows.

You also see in MMA that top fighters rarely use elbows compared to other strikes.

In a fight,you cant really tell before the fight is over,what are you against up.Stick to what is proved to be effective at top level MMA.

I d rather use something reliable than something potentially more effective but not tested.

Start by bombing the head with your fists to set other things up and go from that.It worked for me and for thousands effective fighters everywhere.

128

‘Bombing’ to the head with bare fists is a recipe for disaster, unless you are already a proficient fighter. I don’t know any of the doormen I box with who do this. They stand there looking mildly pissed off at someone, then sucker punch them.

Or they use their almost always superior size and strength to grab some drunk fucktard and pin him, while hundreds of other bouncers run out from the back room to keep him safe. What works for bouncers does not work for everyone else. You do not have a big aggressive team with you keeping you in a fight, by and large. Your mates maybe plastered and/or weak, or ineffective in a fight.

If you bomb to the head, the odds are you’ll hurt yourself more than you’ll hurt the guy you’re punching in the head. I have seen, but thankfully never done, plenty of people bust their hands hitting someone in the face, only to get pasted by someone they punched who wasn’t really hurt, other than a bloody nose. Elbows and open palm hits are better, in my opinion, until you are good enough to control range and angles enough to make it like a mismatched boxing match.

Remember if you’re brawling, you are going to get hurt 9 times out of 10, you just have to hope it is less hurt than the other guy. One good way of maximising those odds is not to hurt yourself trying to hurt them.

129

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
‘Bombing’ to the head with bare fists is a recipe for disaster, unless you are already a proficient fighter. I don’t know any of the doormen I box with who do this. They stand there looking mildly pissed off at someone, then sucker punch them.

Or they use their almost always superior size and strength to grab some drunk fucktard and pin him, while hundreds of other bouncers run out from the back room to keep him safe. What works for bouncers does not work for everyone else. You do not have a big aggressive team with you keeping you in a fight, by and large. Your mates maybe plastered and/or weak, or ineffective in a fight.

If you bomb to the head, the odds are you’ll hurt yourself more than you’ll hurt the guy you’re punching in the head. I have seen, but thankfully never done, plenty of people bust their hands hitting someone in the face, only to get pasted by someone they punched who wasn’t really hurt, other than a bloody nose. Elbows and open palm hits are better, in my opinion, until you are good enough to control range and angles enough to make it like a mismatched boxing match.

Remember if you’re brawling, you are going to get hurt 9 times out of 10, you just have to hope it is less hurt than the other guy. One good way of maximising those odds is not to hurt yourself trying to hurt them.[/quote]

Yeah,right! :)))))

so,how many years have you worked as a professional bouncer before you became an expert on how bouncers fight?

130

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
‘Bombing’ to the head with bare fists is a recipe for disaster, unless you are already a proficient fighter. I don’t know any of the doormen I box with who do this. They stand there looking mildly pissed off at someone, then sucker punch them.

Or they use their almost always superior size and strength to grab some drunk fucktard and pin him, while hundreds of other bouncers run out from the back room to keep him safe. What works for bouncers does not work for everyone else. You do not have a big aggressive team with you keeping you in a fight, by and large. Your mates maybe plastered and/or weak, or ineffective in a fight.

If you bomb to the head, the odds are you’ll hurt yourself more than you’ll hurt the guy you’re punching in the head. I have seen, but thankfully never done, plenty of people bust their hands hitting someone in the face, only to get pasted by someone they punched who wasn’t really hurt, other than a bloody nose. Elbows and open palm hits are better, in my opinion, until you are good enough to control range and angles enough to make it like a mismatched boxing match.

Remember if you’re brawling, you are going to get hurt 9 times out of 10, you just have to hope it is less hurt than the other guy. One good way of maximising those odds is not to hurt yourself trying to hurt them.[/quote]

Sparing your hands by hitting with open palms and elbows is effective only in a fantasy world.

I guarantee you ,if you get cornered and attacked by some thug trying to stab you with a broken bottle,you will be punching,kicking and bombing his head and body like a helicopter as 99 % of people would do.You will NOT time your open hand strikes and elbows and it would be messy.

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Like I said, I’m not a bouncer, but I do box with several, and they avoid throwing punches as far as possible when they are working the doors, or so they claim.

If you look at what I wrote as well, I made clear that the rules that apply to experienced fighters, particularly bouncers who always have a team of other bouncers behind them, do not apply to people who have to ask whether they can throw elbows in a streetfight. People like that who ‘throw bombs to the head’, will probably bust their hands, do limited damage, and then get their arse kicked. If you can’t finish the fight immediately, you need to make sure you can stay in it til another opportunity presents. Fucked up hands, from hitting someone bigger than you in the forehead for example, will mean you get the living piss kicked out of you.

I agree that open hand strikes are probably best left to internet forums, and having never tried one, I can’t speak to their effectiveness. Elbows, I can say from experience are effective, in the right circumstances. I can also say from experience that if you mishit someone in the face with ‘a bomb’, you’ll bust your hand so badly you cant make a fist for weeks

132

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

I agree that open hand strikes are probably best left to internet forums
[/quote]
I don’t. Unless the point was that fighting without a ref is best left to theory since it hurts less.

[quote]
, and having never tried one, I can’t speak to their effectiveness. [/quote]

I have, and they can be used as effectively or disastrously as any other “technique”.

Regards,

Robert A

133

There you go then, I’m happy to stand corrected.

What you failed to mention was that the technique is only effective when naked and painted yellow - that was disingenuous of you and could have led to someone getting seriously hurt. Obviously your assertion goes to my original point that this is not a technique for a beginner in the dark arts of self defence.

134

Blah blah im so sick of analyzing this to death with never ending what if’s and this works and this don’t. One thing I have learned is you can never know enough techniques and some do work better than others depending on the person. Some is a natural ablility to use a certain strike and much of it is how you train. If you never train stepping offline and controlling the body to throw knees and elbows you certainly will not do it in a real fight, street or in the ring. Coming from a long Krav background we work on just those things. I feel using a Muay Thai Clinch in a real fight is pretty much useless and it is really easy to get out of and you can’t throw elbows from that clinch. I prefer to step through and control the wrist and head slightly from the side and you can easily be in elbow range with that.

I will say that an elbow probably has never been my “first” move in a fight but possibly the second or third and is a game changer. Basically you have to train the weapons you want to use and I think everyone is kind of missing that, maybe because we all have an idea of what a fight is going to look like lurking around in our heads somewhere. Seems that Sentoguy has a good grasp on what kind of scenarios could possibly play out and if you can see the opening you can use a elbow or a palm strike to your advantage. Hell I want to use Palm strikes to the face from the clinch in MMA but it is illegal… The real nasty effective stuff is always illegal in sport fighting.

135

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Like I said, I’m not a bouncer, but I do box with several, and they avoid throwing punches as far as possible when they are working the doors, or so they claim.

If you look at what I wrote as well, I made clear that the rules that apply to experienced fighters, particularly bouncers who always have a team of other bouncers behind them, do not apply to people who have to ask whether they can throw elbows in a streetfight. People like that who ‘throw bombs to the head’, will probably bust their hands, do limited damage, and then get their arse kicked. If you can’t finish the fight immediately, you need to make sure you can stay in it til another opportunity presents. Fucked up hands, from hitting someone bigger than you in the forehead for example, will mean you get the living piss kicked out of you.

I agree that open hand strikes are probably best left to internet forums, and having never tried one, I can’t speak to their effectiveness. Elbows, I can say from experience are effective, in the right circumstances. I can also say from experience that if you mishit someone in the face with ‘a bomb’, you’ll bust your hand so badly you cant make a fist for weeks[/quote]

Yes,you are correct when you say that bouncers avoid throwing punches.Thats in the context of conflict situation that happens a few times a night in most places.Then you restrain people,push them,take them in blood choke and threw them out.Thats if psychological aproach didntr work.
But,as a bouncer ( I worked 9 years as a bouncer,6 years as part-time bouncer and 3 years as full time bouncer in Croatia and Spain) there are basicaly 2 situations.
First one,shit happens…you deny people entrance,threw bad ones out,stop fighting,restrain people,disarm people,etc. So in situation one,you are like a policeman-you react ,but youre calm and metodical.
Situation two is when you and your colleauges.bouncers are attacked directly.Then,all the rules of situaton one are out of the window.Its like a policeman being attacked.In a situation like this,you take no chances-you just go to killing mode and destroy anything that is threating you.
Let me tell you,I saw bouncers with over a decade experience at the door who almost never hit anybody and were never aggressive,once someone attacked them,knock the guy out and kicked his head like a soccer ball.
When attacked,bouncers would use not just punches ,but anything they could put their hands on.
I always carried a pepper spray can and used that if situation happened outside along with expandable steel baton ( one or 2 hard strikes on the thigh made even the toughest scumbag on cocaine retreat).
So,basicaly,bouncers react opposite to whether they are attacked themselves or some other heavy shit is happening.
If they are attacked serioulsy (that excludes a legless drunk trying to fight you hahahaha),they will punch,kick,stomp or even shoot.

136

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Like I said, I’m not a bouncer, but I do box with several, and they avoid throwing punches as far as possible when they are working the doors, or so they claim.

If you look at what I wrote as well, I made clear that the rules that apply to experienced fighters, particularly bouncers who always have a team of other bouncers behind them, do not apply to people who have to ask whether they can throw elbows in a streetfight. People like that who ‘throw bombs to the head’, will probably bust their hands, do limited damage, and then get their arse kicked. If you can’t finish the fight immediately, you need to make sure you can stay in it til another opportunity presents. Fucked up hands, from hitting someone bigger than you in the forehead for example, will mean you get the living piss kicked out of you.

I agree that open hand strikes are probably best left to internet forums, and having never tried one, I can’t speak to their effectiveness. Elbows, I can say from experience are effective, in the right circumstances. I can also say from experience that if you mishit someone in the face with ‘a bomb’, you’ll bust your hand so badly you cant make a fist for weeks[/quote]

Its my fault that I didnt explain what I mean by bombing the head.
I dont mean it as just swinging wildly like idiot.

In a real fight( unlike boxing where 2 boxers staying in semi-upright position exchange punches),the head is changing position very fast and unpredictable,which requires you hit it with a series of punches.You dont rely on a single big punch to take the guy out,but rather like an Uzi maching gun,you try to overwhelm him,stun him,set a kick or a big punch or enter close for a take down while preventing him to do the same to you.

By bombing the head with a lot of fast repetitive punches,you make it likely to hit the jaw at angle that will rotate the head and- voila!! he is in semi-knockout state where you can put whatever you want in-big cross,elbow,kick ,take down,etc.

137

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
I realize there may be other styles that utilize the elbow differently. I’m actually curious if there is a different style of Muay Thai that uses the elbow more for striking. I know the style I’ve learned is in Dutch Muay Thai and we were primarily taught to use the tip of the elbow to slice across the face to open it up. I know we were taught not to use the elbow for striking, I just can’t remember why. I think it was because you could hurt it or something, but not sure. I’d have to ask about it. I just assumed because the yoitspmart said he was training Muay Thai, he was training at an actual gym that trains it and would want an answer specific to the art he was taking.[/quote]

I think this may just be your gym’s or trainers preference as I don’t know or haven’t really heard of dutch/thai differentiation with Elbows. If anything Thai’s use the elbow as the ultimate form of disrespect for their opponent.

As for in a real fight, slicing someone up may prove fruitless when they’re filled with rage and fury. There’s no doctor around to stop the fight because it’s too close to the eye or bleeding into the guys eye so whilst you may slice him good, doesn’t mean it will stop him.

Elbows though, if you know how to use them are much better than using your knuckles in the street. That’s a no brainer. I’ve bounced and been a security guard on and off for years too and don’t like the idea of busted knuckles. I’ve busted up a knuckles in a ring fights and it takes a very long time to heal and that’s with padding and wrapping. Bone on bone is not as forgiving.

I see Skelacs point and the instinct is to throw punches first of all but it’s not the best thing to do. I prefer feet in a fight. Low kicks to knee caps, stomps and sweeping leg kicks. They’re more of a shock than a punch as people don’t expect them. It takes great timing and balance otherwise to throw high kicks.

If elbows are to be used though, I would definitely not lead with them but always come off a combination. They’re damn effective because of the distance shortening of the lever and less bodyweight transfer of energy being lost through the longer lever. Your weight is pretty much locked behind your elbow. Again, it’s the street so shit happens and all of this is just masturbation really. You could be the best street fighter, and accidently slip and a sheer novice sees the opportunity to soccer kick you in the head, ribs or nuts… game over.

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[quote]humble wrote:

As for in a real fight, slicing someone up may prove fruitless when they’re filled with rage and fury. There’s no doctor around to stop the fight because it’s too close to the eye or bleeding into the guys eye so whilst you may slice him good, doesn’t mean it will stop him.
[/quote]

It also looks absolutely horrific to the cops who are coming and the judge you’re probably going to be in front of.

I like body shots for both of these reasons… a straight left to the liver or a right shovel hook to the ribs does plenty of damage, hurts like a motherfucker, but doesn’t leave marks and require dozens of stitches.

Don’t forget the idea that they hurt like absolute motherfuckers when you break them.

139

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Don’t forget the idea that they hurt like absolute motherfuckers when you break them.
[/quote]

Makes a bitch out of any man. Fucken 6- 8 months later double, triple padding one knuckle and you still feel it through the padding, the wraps and gloves in training… thanks for the memories. :-/

140

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Don’t forget the idea that they hurt like absolute motherfuckers when you break them.
[/quote]

Makes a bitch out of any man. Fucken 6- 8 months later double, triple padding one knuckle and you still feel it through the padding, the wraps and gloves in training… thanks for the memories. :-/[/quote]

I broke mine punching a plaster wall. It’s up there in the top five most painful things I’ve done in my life.