I was involved in an incident last night. described here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/i_am_absolutly_disgusted_in_myself
so in reaction to it… and the fact i am scared of it happening again. i am thinking of doing a self defence class…
krav maga sounds like the sort of thing i would be interested in learning.
does this course look like it is worth the money.
http://www.360defence.co.uk/shop/item.asp?itemid=51
Thanks
Scott
I don’t train in Krav, but will talk generally about it.
Its a good no nonsense art, which can be picked up alot quicker than say, karate. From talking with people who train in it, it seems that strength and endurance massively increase its effectiveness, so not one you are going to find wise masters with giant beards aged 100 in. Can’t speak for the course, but the general focus of Krav seemed to be on taking the other person down, disabling them in some way to allow escape or taking them out properly, situation dependent. Origin is military, Israeli apparently.
The course apparently includes awareness and verbal side stuff aswell. Which is a useful skill to have. It may not work on someone intent on caving in your face, but I guess it is another string in the bow for someone whos trying to prove how big their dick is to their friends.
thats the bit of krav maga that intersts me… the awareness and verbal side. also the maximum damage short time thing is what id be after. id rather throw a proper punch aimed correctly and knock the attacker out than have a scrapy fight.
on a similiar note. KFM has been suggested to me… looks interesting aswell.
You would be amazed the amount of power people can learn to put out without weapons. One of the guys I train with whos been doing kickboxing before he could walk can kick harder than most people can hit with a baseball bat. Plus after much conditioning he can now ‘kick all day’ if he wants. Of course, that isn’t talking about a bladed weapon. Maybe learn some of the combat de-escalation techniques, like body language, calming gestures and what not, then put some time into one of the arts aswell, so that when the other person isn’t listening, you can make him listen?
Also would give you time to do the addidas 100 meter sprint if you are out numbered and alone 
No knowledge of KFM.
buy a gun?
I think that depending on your experience and background a lot of these sorts of arts can provide something but you must not make the mistake of thinking that somehow they are putting a lethal or devastating weapon in your hand they will enable you to overcome what may turn out to be assailants who have more fighting experience and are physically superior to you.
It is one thing practising techniques in the confines of a gym- yet another making them work under conditions of fear and adrenaline dump in unfamiliar surroundings possibly against multiple opponents and weapons.
It is reasonable to spend some time understanding concepts familiar to those in RBSD- awareness, avoidance, the fence, pre-emptive attacks, adrenaline dump etc and to spend some time refining some basic techniques that are likely to be high percentage for the street but it is not reasonable to believe that you will be able to emerge unscathed from every violent encounter.
I think it is important that you train in an art/sport that has contact and the reality of a resisting opponent. So both striking and grappling-boxing, thai boxing, wrestling, BJJ etc- would be good but added to that you do need some street specific street stuff imo unless you have street experience.
Good resources are I think Tony Blauer and Rich Dimitri and a lot of stuff out of the UK by Geoff Thompson, Lee Morrison, Mick Coup, John Skillen and others.
I think that Keysi Fighting Method is an offshoot of JKD. I have read mixed reports and some criticisms over its commercialism but have no idea how they practise.
Thosebananas, I have trained quite seriously in krav maga for just under two years now.
First, I want to say please stop beating yourself up about not taking on the four guys who attacked your mate. You got him the medical help he clearly needed, which was the right thing to do. You are untrained, were unarmed, and were confronted by 4 men, one of whom was armed and clearly prepared to end your life. Had you not called the ambulance your friend’s situation could have been much worse, as time is critical with head injuries.
2nd, this class looks like a good start, but it covers a great deal in only one day, so you may expect to only retain a little of it. Certain things will naturally grab your attention - concentrate on committing those to memory.
I notice that 3rd party protection is not covered in the seminar, which is what your situation called for - you may want to ask your instructor about it. It is simple to cover, & will help you to feel better about what happened because now you are prepared to deal with a similar situation. Refer to it as 3rd party protection & he will know exactly what you mean.
You might consider taking regular krav classes (or whatever style you choose) as it is frequent, focused training that will help you develop the skills you seek.
Interesting that the school is called 360, we have something in krav that are called 360 defenses, very useful.
And finally: YOU ARE NOT A PUSSY!! You got your friend medical care, you recognize there is a problem (lack of skills), and you are moving to fix the problem. You are actively trying to improve yourself, for your own sake and for others as well. Sounds like a true T-man to me! Good luck, TB, if you ever have krav questions, please feel free to PM me any time.
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Thosebananas, I have trained quite seriously in krav maga for just under two years now.
First, I want to say please stop beating yourself up about not taking on the four guys who attacked your mate. You got him the medical help he clearly needed, which was the right thing to do. You are untrained, were unarmed, and were confronted by 4 men, one of whom was armed and clearly prepared to end your life. Had you not called the ambulance your friend’s situation could have been much worse, as time is critical with head injuries.
2nd, this class looks like a good start, but it covers a great deal in only one day, so you may expect to only retain a little of it. Certain things will naturally grab your attention - concentrate on committing those to memory.
I notice that 3rd party protection is not covered in the seminar, which is what your situation called for - you may want to ask your instructor about it. It is simple to cover, & will help you to feel better about what happened because now you are prepared to deal with a similar situation. Refer to it as 3rd party protection & he will know exactly what you mean.
You might consider taking regular krav classes (or whatever style you choose) as it is frequent, focused training that will help you develop the skills you seek.
Interesting that the school is called 360, we have something in krav that are called 360 defenses, very useful.
And finally: YOU ARE NOT A PUSSY!! You got your friend medical care, you recognize there is a problem (lack of skills), and you are moving to fix the problem. You are actively trying to improve yourself, for your own sake and for others as well. Sounds like a true T-man to me! Good luck, TB, if you ever have krav questions, please feel free to PM me any time.[/quote]
Total agreement. Some people would just have froze up and gibbered in a corner. You had enough about you to get the emergancy services.
I responded in that thread- there’s a whole lot of internet warriors in this bitch.
A one day seminar isn’t going to cure you, amigo. In all honesty, it will probably give you just enough to get yourself killed. The price seems kind of steep to me- I don’t know how much a pound or euro or whatever counts for in America, but for that price couldn’t you take classes for nearly a month?
As I said in that thread- you reacted well for the situation you were put in. Even a professional fighter would likely have taken a beating against four guys with weapons.
Look into some classes. If you’ve got some kind of athletic inclination, teach yourself to box- it’s not that difficult to get the basics down. What you may also want to do is begin studying violence- and not the MMA kind of violence, real violence.
I suggest reading “Cheap Shots, Ambushes, and other lessons” by Marc Macyoung. I consider it the Bible for those looking into the psychology of violence and looking to form a base of knowledge.
Also look into Loren Christensen and other authors of that ilk- you’ll learn a lot through reading their words.
I said it before- you don’t know how you’re going to react until you’re in that situation. I am very, very slow to throw punches in a live fire situation because things escalate so quickly and get very, very ugly. I’ve had my teeth broken, been hit with beer bottles, kicked in the nuts, and taken some serious shots in some ugly places. I’ve seen guys get beaten with tiki torches, cue balls in socks, forks, knives, bricks, bottles, fists, and everything in between.
The shit is ugly. No one-day course is going to prepare you for it.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I responded in that thread- there’s a whole lot of internet warriors in this bitch.
A one day seminar isn’t going to cure you, amigo. In all honesty, it will probably give you just enough to get yourself killed. The price seems kind of steep to me- I don’t know how much a pound or euro or whatever counts for in America, but for that price couldn’t you take classes for nearly a month?
As I said in that thread- you reacted well for the situation you were put in. Even a professional fighter would likely have taken a beating against four guys with weapons.
Look into some classes. If you’ve got some kind of athletic inclination, teach yourself to box- it’s not that difficult to get the basics down. What you may also want to do is begin studying violence- and not the MMA kind of violence, real violence.
I suggest reading “Cheap Shots, Ambushes, and other lessons” by Marc Macyoung. I consider it the Bible for those looking into the psychology of violence and looking to form a base of knowledge.
Also look into Loren Christensen and other authors of that ilk- you’ll learn a lot through reading their words.
I said it before- you don’t know how you’re going to react until you’re in that situation. I am very, very slow to throw punches in a live fire situation because things escalate so quickly and get very, very ugly. I’ve had my teeth broken, been hit with beer bottles, kicked in the nuts, and taken some serious shots in some ugly places. I’ve seen guys get beaten with tiki torches, cue balls in socks, forks, knives, bricks, bottles, fists, and everything in between.
The shit is ugly. No one-day course is going to prepare you for it.
[/quote]
FI, I adore you. You just lay it out there. I agree with the Loren Christensen suggestion, & would also recommend “On Combat” by Dave Grossman. I’ll probably pick up “Cheap Shots, etc.” this week, it sounds good.
Sorry about your teeth!
cant find any krav schools near me. i think there is only one in scotland.
i have muay thai, BJJ, JJ, Karate, KFM, Urban combat, Urban Kickboxing, Kali/Silat, Vale Tudo, JKD, MMA and wrestling.
going to do some research into all of them.
i like grappling and reckon id be quite good at it because of my size and from playing rugby.
also would like some self defence standing combat style stuff.
anyt thoughts?
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
cant find any krav schools near me. i think there is only one in scotland.
i have muay thai, BJJ, JJ, Karate, KFM, Urban combat, Urban Kickboxing, Kali/Silat, Vale Tudo, JKD, MMA and wrestling.
going to do some research into all of them.
i like grappling and reckon id be quite good at it because of my size and from playing rugby.
also would like some self defence standing combat style stuff.
anyt thoughts?[/quote]
Well, MMA will cover both standing & groundfighting, but they’ll do it from the perspective of sport. BJJ is fun, but takes ages to learn & is not that great for self-defense until you become quite skilled at it.
To be honest, my best advice would be to do the research you already intend & attend a class in several of the places that seem to be the most appealing to you. Most places will give you a free class to try it out. Then go with your gut.
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
cant find any krav schools near me. i think there is only one in scotland.
i have muay thai, BJJ, JJ, Karate, KFM, Urban combat, Urban Kickboxing, Kali/Silat, Vale Tudo, JKD, MMA and wrestling.
going to do some research into all of them.
i like grappling and reckon id be quite good at it because of my size and from playing rugby.
also would like some self defence standing combat style stuff.
anyt thoughts?[/quote]
I answered this in your other thread.
Boxing is, in my opinion, the best. Quick, strong combinations will end a fight before it starts.
FightinIrish26 made a lot of good points.
I did Krav Maga when I was in Ireland. I enjoyed it and learned a few things but, one course will not turn you into the kind of person that take on 4 armed people. Thats a good thing by the way!
From experience, I would stay away from one day / weekend seminar type groups. For a start they are more expensive, plus you really want more than a couple of hours training for any of the techniques to sink in and become instinctive. From what I can remember there were places that let you train regularly, like a couple of times a week, just like you would any other martial art. I’d go for something like that.
Dude, just want to wade in and agree that you did the right thing by not wading in and getting yourself twatted as well.
Not sure about the specific course that you linked to but can say that where I used to train BJJ in London they used to hire the space out to Krav Maga instructor certification seminars.
The seminars were a joke, what they were teaching was not realistic in any way however they were implying that it was a fantastic self defence system and that from a 2-3 day course people could go off and instruct.
There is very little that you can realistically train as a part time hobby that would allow you to take out 4 attackers one of them armed.
That said, training boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ or Judo is great fun, great conditioning and I can lead to improved self confidence during a violent confrontation.
If you are regularly sparring hard, you will be better able to think clearly at times of high stress (I even find this during business issues.
Which BJJ school are you near to? I may be able to get more info about it.
(one side note, Miss Parker stated that it takes ages for BJJ to be useful for self defence. Respectfully I disagree. Whilst it takes a long time to be good at using sports BJJ against a sports BJJ practitioner, what you learn in your first 3 lessons will give you a good grounding to defend yourself in most one on one situations.
What takes time is controlling your fear and making the movements automatic, the best way to do this is sparring the way they do in BJJ, Boxing,Muay Thai or Judo.)
OK, just read the curiculum for that course. They are going to teach you defence against Gun and Multiple knife attacks on a one day course. It’s total junk, don’t waste your money.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Dude, just want to wade in and agree that you did the right thing by not wading in and getting yourself twatted as well.
Not sure about the specific course that you linked to but can say that where I used to train BJJ in London they used to hire the space out to Krav Maga instructor certification seminars.
The seminars were a joke, what they were teaching was not realistic in any way however they were implying that it was a fantastic self defence system and that from a 2-3 day course people could go off and instruct.
There is very little that you can realistically train as a part time hobby that would allow you to take out 4 attackers one of them armed.
That said, training boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ or Judo is great fun, great conditioning and I can lead to improved self confidence during a violent confrontation.
If you are regularly sparring hard, you will be better able to think clearly at times of high stress (I even find this during business issues.
Which BJJ school are you near to? I may be able to get more info about it.
(one side note, Miss Parker stated that it takes ages for BJJ to be useful for self defence. Respectfully I disagree. Whilst it takes a long time to be good at using sports BJJ against a sports BJJ practitioner, what you learn in your first 3 lessons will give you a good grounding to defend yourself in most one on one situations.
What takes time is controlling your fear and making the movements automatic, the best way to do this is sparring the way they do in BJJ, Boxing,Muay Thai or Judo.)[/quote]
The school im looking at for most of the arts i stated is “the griphouse” in Glasgow.
from local forums and stuff i have read, most of the classes are aimed at getting on a fight team and not on self defence. so i dont know how good it would be for me…
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
cant find any krav schools near me. i think there is only one in scotland.
i have muay thai, BJJ, JJ, Karate, KFM, Urban combat, Urban Kickboxing, Kali/Silat, Vale Tudo, JKD, MMA and wrestling.
going to do some research into all of them.
i like grappling and reckon id be quite good at it because of my size and from playing rugby.
also would like some self defence standing combat style stuff.
anyt thoughts?[/quote]
Wrestling will help you tons in your rugby.
I would say get into karate or Wrestling.
these 2 even though they are not “hardcore combat sports” they will give you skills you need and most of all they will give you confidence you deserve
a one day class will not do anything it takes along time to perfect like anything,you might as well do something that will help your conditioning and help your rugby as well.
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
The school im looking at for most of the arts i stated is “the griphouse” in Glasgow.
from local forums and stuff i have read, most of the classes are aimed at getting on a fight team and not on self defence. so i dont know how good it would be for me…[/quote]
Just a couple of thoughts- firstly note how now you are talking to combat athletes no one is saying dickhead things about how you should have done a John Rambo on those guys. Seriously, I know exactly how you feel, I felt just the same after a group of about 10 teenagers tried to mug me and my girlfriend- I felt afterwards I should have been able to kill the lot of them, especially as they were younger than me, but multiple attackers+weapons is just a no go, if you can diffuse it or call the police then do it. So stop beating yourself up.
Secondly, places with fight teams etc. are exactly what you are looking for, trust me. I have spent a long time trying to find the right thing, and I have done “self defence” stuff and it is nothing compared to what I get put through now I go to places training combat athletes. Don’t be taken in by the restricted target areas/competition rules arguments- no amount of strikes to the throat practiced at half speed against a compliant opponent can compare to the package you will get training a combat sport. The conditioning, the resisting opponents and crucially if you are a sheltered pansy like me learning to deal with confrontation and aggression (theirs and yours) are irreplaceable. For my money for pure self defence you won’t go far wrong with Muay Thai or boxing, plus judo. If the judo club emphasises newaza then you’re golden.
Personally I don’t actually take my own advice, because I don’t like getting hit in the head (sheltered pansy, like I said), and I really don’t think there is any point in training striking if you’re not going to do it in a live situation. So I have started training BJJ and judo, on the advice of chitown who will probably be along with his 2 cents soon enough, so at least I have my standing and ground games covered and trained against resisting opponents, plus they complement my goal of competing in amateur grappling comps. If I get in trouble, unless the opponent is a shit hot striker, I think I’ll be OK.
The above is all my own opinion, and may well be bollocks because I am new to combat sports, but I have been to a lot of JKD/karate/TKD/Wing Tsun clubs, and recently I have visited and trained at boxing gyms, muay thai clubs, mma gyms, gracie barras and judo clubs, and I know where I want to be.
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Dude, just want to wade in and agree that you did the right thing by not wading in and getting yourself twatted as well.
Not sure about the specific course that you linked to but can say that where I used to train BJJ in London they used to hire the space out to Krav Maga instructor certification seminars.
The seminars were a joke, what they were teaching was not realistic in any way however they were implying that it was a fantastic self defence system and that from a 2-3 day course people could go off and instruct.
There is very little that you can realistically train as a part time hobby that would allow you to take out 4 attackers one of them armed.
That said, training boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ or Judo is great fun, great conditioning and I can lead to improved self confidence during a violent confrontation.
If you are regularly sparring hard, you will be better able to think clearly at times of high stress (I even find this during business issues.
Which BJJ school are you near to? I may be able to get more info about it.
(one side note, Miss Parker stated that it takes ages for BJJ to be useful for self defence. Respectfully I disagree. Whilst it takes a long time to be good at using sports BJJ against a sports BJJ practitioner, what you learn in your first 3 lessons will give you a good grounding to defend yourself in most one on one situations.
What takes time is controlling your fear and making the movements automatic, the best way to do this is sparring the way they do in BJJ, Boxing,Muay Thai or Judo.)
The school im looking at for most of the arts i stated is “the griphouse” in Glasgow.
from local forums and stuff i have read, most of the classes are aimed at getting on a fight team and not on self defence. so i dont know how good it would be for me…[/quote]
Don’t know this guy but I can ask around. Best advice is turn up and watch a class or take an intro class (should be free) and see if you like it.
As roundhead says, train like a competitive combat athlete and the self defence thing takes care of itself 