[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
And 99% of the time that won’t be an elbow. That’s my point. All this talk of what ifs is annoying because obviously you can create a what if scenario where an elbow is practical. My point is you shouldn’t go into a fight looking to get close enough to throw elbows like the guy who was asking about elbows was talking about.
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I think you’re looking at this wrong. You’re still looking at this as if it’s from a sporting perspective. Do you have a lot of streetfighting or barfighting experience?
In a real fight, you rarely “go into a fight” thinking or planning ANYTHING.
Most of the time, it’s just that you’re kinda sitting at the bar drinking, and the next thing you know there’s some words and some pushing and then a punch is thrown and your buddy goes down so you hit some guy that you think hit him and then you get punched three times from three directions, you go down, but you’re still holding onto the cocksucker’s shirt, so he ends up on top of you on the ground and you’re trying to choke him and then you get stood up again and you end up outside and you have NO IDEA how you got there, and then you’re on the ground again, and then you’re being dragged away and your eye is bleeding and you get thrown into a car…
and then you think about what you SHOULD have done.
It’s the furthest thing from an organized ring fight that you can think of… streetfighting is really about as similar to ring fighting as it is to football.
[quote]
I think that if someone has a significant reach advantage over you then they are likely at least 4-6 inches taller than you and you won’t be able to elbow them in the head anyways. I’d rather try to work angles and get inside enough to throw straight punches and kicks than try to clinch with a much bigger guy. I’m not sure but I think a bigger guy could probably just wrap his hands around my body and take me down easy if I tried pulling his head down. I wouldn’t take the risk with someone I don’t know.
I spar with guys that are a lot bigger than me and they kick my ass all the time. Even if I clinched with them I couldn’t do any damage to them because I can only knee them to their legs instead of stomach because of the size difference. You may be able to pull someone’s (who doesn’t train) head down and knee or kick them to the head. I haven’t done it or seen it done though. I’m not certain how easy it would be able to do.
When sparring bigger guys I have to try to get inside enough to throw punches and kick them their legs and body. Throwing a kick to their body is almost like throwing a head kick to someone my size.
And if anyone that takes Muay Thai, because I know we have several here who do, wants to tell me I’m wrong and why I’m wrong, I’m all ears. But I find it odd that people who primarily take boxing are disagreeing with me on using the elbow when you get into fights.[/quote]
There’s not one thing here that you wrote that pertains to a streetfight.
You’ll never, ever, ever have the chance to really work angles in a streetfight. It’s just not going to happen. You may slip one punch, step across, and fire three more, but you’re not going to be able to “work your way inside” or make him “not find you through footwork.”
That’s just not the kind of way this shit goes down. It’s up, going, and over far too fast for that kind of ring strategy to apply in anything more than in a split-second reflex type way.
And I know you’re not supporting the clinch, but I just want to point out that outside of a sporting context, the clinch loses its effectiveness very quickly. I don’t know much about MT, but I know that oftentimes the guys, while clinching, maneuver for a bit to try and line up a good knee or whatever, and try to control the other guy.
But in real life, as soon as you wrap your hands around someone’s neck, it’s nearly assured that you’re going to get
- hit by his friend
- hit by his other friend
- a shitload of attention from every bouncer in the place
- hit by his other other friend.
Add to that the fact that you’re going to have the inevitable do-gooders around you trying to separate you and yelling, “Hey bro, calmmm do- HEY BRO! I said CALM DOWN!” while they’v got their hands on your shoulders and are pulling you away and into a much worse spot than you WANT to be in… and the fucking guy’s girl is screaming at him and she’s got her fucking face in the middle of it all, and blah blah blah.
There’s soooo many complicating factors in a real life situation that it’s impossible to guess them all.
Now, sport fighting isn’t useless, don’t get me wrong - there’s a reason I always tell people they should learn to box if they want to get by in the boom town.
But, being a good boxer is to streetfighting what being a good sprinter is to football - it can make it easier the game easier if you got that skill, but it’s not particularly necessary to be excellent, nor will it make you understand the whole game better.
And even real boxers - like Mike Tyson - bust their hands up in streetfights. Part of this is because as a boxer, you keep your hands really loose once they’re wrapped and gloved up. Sure, you tighten them on impact but you’re not squeezing the shit out of them like you should be if you’re punching someone bareknuckle in the orbital.
There’s a reason that a lot of bareknuckle fighters go to the body much more, and don’t go towards the head unless they got a real good opening.
But, I can hit a fucking brick wall ten times with my elbow and the even though the skin will get tore and I’ll get bruised, it’s probably not going to break the bone because the structure behind it can support and distribute that impact wayyyy better.
And close in, like a lot of barfights happen, an elbow can be pretty devastating.
So it’s not that it’s better or not better, it’s just whether or not it’s better at the particular moment your little fight starts.