Best Style for Self Defense?

Training
61

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Best self defense= destruction of the threat[/quote]

Best self defense = avoidance of the threat.[/quote]

if you are not attacked,theres no defence.[/quote]

Wrong, prevention is the best cure.

And, wouldn’t avoiding the situation be eliminating that threat?[/quote]

Lets me use example to explain,coz you are kind of slow.

Youre walking to your car with your girlfriend.The parking lot is dark.You notice a thug aproaching carrying a bat.His body language is aggressive.
Now,time to react is now.
You cannot run and leave your girlfriend alone.

I know what I would do.Instead of standing there like a sitting duck and waiting to be hit,I would rather take the fight to the attacker and make him react.

And let me tell you once I take that bat away from him,he would regret being born and wouldnt be able to attack anyone ever.
[/quote]

Let me use another example. Before entering dark, scary parking lot with GF you scan, notice bat toting thug (or drunk, aggressive frat boy or whatever) before he notices you. Now is the time to respond and now you have options. You can press on regardless, confident that your badassery allow you to destroy the guy. This will surely impress your GF, thus guaranteeing hot sex later (assuming 1 or both you are not in the hospital or jail).

Or you can take action to avoid/prevent the encounter. You can “spontaneously” decide to grab a slice of pizza or a coffee at the all night place across from the parking lot. You can sit by the window and watch for a while. Assuming the parking lot is not near a baseball diamond you may even go to the facilities an call the cops to report a suspicious person with a bat.

If you’re paying attention you can almost always see the shit or indicators of said shit before you are actually in it and your only options are fight flight or freeze. You can also make choices that make it less likely that you see or even smell the shit, but that’s another thing.

You and those under your protection will make it safely through 100% of the violent encounters you don’t get into. No system of hands on techniques has anywhere near that success rate no matter how badass you are.

62

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Best self defense= destruction of the threat[/quote]

Best self defense = avoidance of the threat.[/quote]

if you are not attacked,theres no defence.[/quote]

Wrong, prevention is the best cure.

And, wouldn’t avoiding the situation be eliminating that threat?[/quote]

Lets me use example to explain,coz you are kind of slow.

Youre walking to your car with your girlfriend.The parking lot is dark.You notice a thug aproaching carrying a bat.His body language is aggressive.
Now,time to react is now.
You cannot run and leave your girlfriend alone.

I know what I would do.Instead of standing there like a sitting duck and waiting to be hit,I would rather take the fight to the attacker and make him react.

And let me tell you once I take that bat away from him,he would regret being born and wouldnt be able to attack anyone ever.
[/quote]

Let me use another example. Before entering dark, scary parking lot with GF you scan, notice bat toting thug (or drunk, aggressive frat boy or whatever) before he notices you. Now is the time to respond and now you have options. You can press on regardless, confident that your badassery allow you to destroy the guy. This will surely impress your GF, thus guaranteeing hot sex later (assuming 1 or both you are not in the hospital or jail).

Or you can take action to avoid/prevent the encounter. You can “spontaneously” decide to grab a slice of pizza or a coffee at the all night place across from the parking lot. You can sit by the window and watch for a while. Assuming the parking lot is not near a baseball diamond you may even go to the facilities an call the cops to report a suspicious person with a bat.

If you’re paying attention you can almost always see the shit or indicators of said shit before you are actually in it and your only options are fight flight or freeze. You can also make choices that make it less likely that you see or even smell the shit, but that’s another thing.

You and those under your protection will make it safely through 100% of the violent encounters you don’t get into. No system of hands on techniques has anywhere near that success rate no matter how badass you are.
[/quote]

I see you are trying hard not to understand what I posted.Avoiding dangerous situations and self defence is 2 different things.
You can think over why policemen and guards carry guns.

63

As usual, I agree with Sentoguy.

Now,

RE: Weapon use

A solid argument could be made that of the few circumstances where the average someone (in this case someone who does not have a job that causes them to have to go “hands on” with people, cops, security, bouncers, etc. are not average in this regard) will have to use violence to defend themselves, that using potentially lethat force will also be justified.

So the rapist/mugger/flash mob/arme robber can all be dealt with using whatever most effective means are available. Thus, if legal, training and carrying with weapons should be a huge part of any training that is for “self defense” primarily.

Regards,

Robert A

64

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
I see you are trying hard not to understand what I posted.Avoiding dangerous situations and self defence is 2 different things.
You can think over why policemen and guards carry guns.[/quote]

SKELAC,

I get that you might just be fucking with people, but in case you and batman are talking/typing past each other:

1.) Do you consider strategy to be part of “self defense”.

2.) Do you consider tactics to be part of “self defense”.

3.) Do you draw any distinctions between tactics and strategy?

These are not “gothca”/trick questions. I think the answers may shed light on where you and batman are each coming from.

Regards,

Robert A

65

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
I see you are trying hard not to understand what I posted.Avoiding dangerous situations and self defence is 2 different things.
You can think over why policemen and guards carry guns.[/quote]

SKELAC,

I get that you might just be fucking with people, but in case you and batman are talking/typing past each other:

1.) Do you consider strategy to be part of “self defense”.

2.) Do you consider tactics to be part of “self defense”.

3.) Do you draw any distinctions between tactics and strategy?

These are not “gothca”/trick questions. I think the answers may shed light on where you and batman are each coming from.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Lets get one thing cleared.
Self-defence situation is situation when you have no choice but to defend yourself.You are being attacked or about to be attacked.

Other thing is- being attacked is very rare event.Average person might be attacked a few times during his /her lifetime or never.

The third point is- if you fail defending yourself,you might end up dead,cripled,raped,mutilated,badly hurt.

So,the situation is extreme,your life is on the line and you have to react quickly,no mistakes allowed.
Now some posters like to appear very smart in their posts,they consider legal issues,moderation of your response and whatnot.Thats ok.Theoritising about scenarios and optimal responses while sipping coffee/beer and typing on the keyboard on T.Nation forum is all nice and tidy,but surviving visious attack is different things.

Take it for its worth for someone working as a bouncer for 9 years and seeing these things happen weekly,using whatever and weapons to resolve situations,to defend myself and others.And a few of the toughest professional bouncers I had honour to share a drink with,are now dead from knife or gun,etc.
I consider myself very lucky never to be stabbed or shut while doing my job.

66

And consider this- a reasonably fit,young person armed with knife can cover about 35 feet,before average police officer can draw his gun,aim and shoot.Think about it.

67

I dont understand why people assume the attacker is going to be some stupid,drunk,legless man.I assume its likely gonna be a few thugs,and the biggest,baddest one is gonna attack first.Out of few of them,at least one will pull out the knife.

Why would someone attack you if he doesnt feel tougher,bigger,armed,etc??

68

Krav Mega bullshit- this shit is hilarious :)))))

69

more realistic aproach

70

SKELAC,

Thank you for not answering the questions. That was not at all helpful. I am trying to see if this is a semantic/communication issue, a disagreement, or something else.

The point is that adopting an avoidance strategy as part of one’s “self defense” preperation is legitimate. If you consider strategy and tactics to be part of “self defense” training/prep. This could be a semantic issue. You wrote that self defense was different than avoidance. I think some of us are looking at trying not to need to be violent as the first measure of avoiding getting injured/killed.

The answer to the immediate question “How do I peel this guy who is trying to make my insides my outsides?” is not “You shouldn’t be there in the first place.”, but not going where that question is likely to be asked IS a valid strategy for keeping your insides, well, inside you.

For the record I am using the following rough definitions:

Strategy-Big picture stuff: Strategy is at play when not in hostile contact and can/should be examined with a clear head. If we are talking bouncing this is all the shit you are going to want done before the shift start/maybe before opening for the night. If you want certain people posted or roving, if radios are available, signals to staff/each other, how many people are working, any problems you are expecting, etc.

Tactics-In hostile contact: Movement/goals of dealing with the problem you are currently in RIGHT NOW are tactics. Examples for security/bouncing include: Don’t let that assholes hands get to/come out of his pockets, do put him on the ground. Walking someone out vs dropping them and dragging them out. How many guys do you want responding to THIS PROBLEM. Even if you mentioned it in Strategy if the second you are doing something, the rest of your staff rushes over to “help” you now have to deal with that. So these are “immediate goals for immediate problems”.

Techniques-the how: This is the “hands on” part of hands on. It is what gets trained. It is how you achieve your tactical goals and your strategic goals.

I think batman and Sentoguy are arguing for trying to solve issues with STRATEGY first, tactics that do not require contact second, and then serious violence if needed. Of course I may be guilty of reading my own opinions into their posts. If that is the case both batman and Sentoguy have my apologies.

Regards,

Robert A

71

[quote]Robert A wrote:
SKELAC,

Thank you for not answering the questions. That was not at all helpful. I am trying to see if this is a semantic/communication issue, a disagreement, or something else.

The point is that adopting an avoidance strategy as part of one’s “self defense” preperation is legitimate. If you consider strategy and tactics to be part of “self defense” training/prep. This could be a semantic issue. You wrote that self defense was different than avoidance. I think some of us are looking at trying not to need to be violent as the first measure of avoiding getting injured/killed.

The answer to the immediate question “How do I peel this guy who is trying to make my insides my outsides?” is not “You shouldn’t be there in the first place.”, but not going where that question is likely to be asked IS a valid strategy for keeping your insides, well, inside you.

For the record I am using the following rough definitions:

Strategy-Big picture stuff: Strategy is at play when not in hostile contact and can/should be examined with a clear head. If we are talking bouncing this is all the shit you are going to want done before the shift start/maybe before opening for the night. If you want certain people posted or roving, if radios are available, signals to staff/each other, how many people are working, any problems you are expecting, etc.

Tactics-In hostile contact: Movement/goals of dealing with the problem you are currently in RIGHT NOW are tactics. Examples for security/bouncing include: Don’t let that assholes hands get to/come out of his pockets, do put him on the ground. Walking someone out vs dropping them and dragging them out. How many guys do you want responding to THIS PROBLEM. Even if you mentioned it in Strategy if the second you are doing something, the rest of your staff rushes over to “help” you now have to deal with that. So these are “immediate goals for immediate problems”.

Techniques-the how: This is the “hands on” part of hands on. It is what gets trained. It is how you achieve your tactical goals and your strategic goals.

I think batman and Sentoguy are arguing for trying to solve issues with STRATEGY first, tactics that do not require contact second, and then serious violence if needed. Of course I may be guilty of reading my own opinions into their posts. If that is the case both batman and Sentoguy have my apologies.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Self defence is what you do WHEN you are being attacked.

Of course,avoiding places,people and activities that makes attack more probable is great,but its not part of self defence.Its more about safer lifestyle.
Also,sprinting away from any threat can be of great help to stay safe & healthy,but I dont consider this to be self-defence.
So,youre all overstretching definition of self defence IMO.

72

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:
SKELAC,

Thank you for not answering the questions. That was not at all helpful. I am trying to see if this is a semantic/communication issue, a disagreement, or something else.

The point is that adopting an avoidance strategy as part of one’s “self defense” preperation is legitimate. If you consider strategy and tactics to be part of “self defense” training/prep. This could be a semantic issue. You wrote that self defense was different than avoidance. I think some of us are looking at trying not to need to be violent as the first measure of avoiding getting injured/killed.

The answer to the immediate question “How do I peel this guy who is trying to make my insides my outsides?” is not “You shouldn’t be there in the first place.”, but not going where that question is likely to be asked IS a valid strategy for keeping your insides, well, inside you.

For the record I am using the following rough definitions:

Strategy-Big picture stuff: Strategy is at play when not in hostile contact and can/should be examined with a clear head. If we are talking bouncing this is all the shit you are going to want done before the shift start/maybe before opening for the night. If you want certain people posted or roving, if radios are available, signals to staff/each other, how many people are working, any problems you are expecting, etc.

Tactics-In hostile contact: Movement/goals of dealing with the problem you are currently in RIGHT NOW are tactics. Examples for security/bouncing include: Don’t let that assholes hands get to/come out of his pockets, do put him on the ground. Walking someone out vs dropping them and dragging them out. How many guys do you want responding to THIS PROBLEM. Even if you mentioned it in Strategy if the second you are doing something, the rest of your staff rushes over to “help” you now have to deal with that. So these are “immediate goals for immediate problems”.

Techniques-the how: This is the “hands on” part of hands on. It is what gets trained. It is how you achieve your tactical goals and your strategic goals.

I think batman and Sentoguy are arguing for trying to solve issues with STRATEGY first, tactics that do not require contact second, and then serious violence if needed. Of course I may be guilty of reading my own opinions into their posts. If that is the case both batman and Sentoguy have my apologies.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Self defence is what you do WHEN you are being attacked.

Of course,avoiding places,people and activities that makes attack more probable is great,but its not part of self defence.Its more about safer lifestyle.
Also,sprinting away from any threat can be of great help to stay safe & healthy,but I dont consider this to be self-defence.
So,youre all overstretching definition of self defence IMO. [/quote]

Common definition of self defence by wikipedia

73

[quote]Robert A wrote:
SKELAC,

Thank you for not answering the questions. That was not at all helpful. I am trying to see if this is a semantic/communication issue, a disagreement, or something else.

The point is that adopting an avoidance strategy as part of one’s “self defense” preperation is legitimate. If you consider strategy and tactics to be part of “self defense” training/prep. This could be a semantic issue. You wrote that self defense was different than avoidance. I think some of us are looking at trying not to need to be violent as the first measure of avoiding getting injured/killed.

The answer to the immediate question “How do I peel this guy who is trying to make my insides my outsides?” is not “You shouldn’t be there in the first place.”, but not going where that question is likely to be asked IS a valid strategy for keeping your insides, well, inside you.

For the record I am using the following rough definitions:

Strategy-Big picture stuff: Strategy is at play when not in hostile contact and can/should be examined with a clear head. If we are talking bouncing this is all the shit you are going to want done before the shift start/maybe before opening for the night. If you want certain people posted or roving, if radios are available, signals to staff/each other, how many people are working, any problems you are expecting, etc.

Tactics-In hostile contact: Movement/goals of dealing with the problem you are currently in RIGHT NOW are tactics. Examples for security/bouncing include: Don’t let that assholes hands get to/come out of his pockets, do put him on the ground. Walking someone out vs dropping them and dragging them out. How many guys do you want responding to THIS PROBLEM. Even if you mentioned it in Strategy if the second you are doing something, the rest of your staff rushes over to “help” you now have to deal with that. So these are “immediate goals for immediate problems”.

Techniques-the how: This is the “hands on” part of hands on. It is what gets trained. It is how you achieve your tactical goals and your strategic goals.

I think batman and Sentoguy are arguing for trying to solve issues with STRATEGY first, tactics that do not require contact second, and then serious violence if needed. Of course I may be guilty of reading my own opinions into their posts. If that is the case both batman and Sentoguy have my apologies.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I’m driving at, no apology required. To me “self-defence” is any behaviour(s) you engage in order to prevent yourself from being harmed through violence. This includes strategy, tactics and techniques.

I have personally prevented much more harm from coming to myself and others through strategy
and to a lesser extent tactics with technique as a distant last.

OP seems to find himself in stupid situations with a certain regularity IMO (no offence guy). This leads me to believe that he may need to re-evaluate strategy and tactics as well as develop technique (training technique is fine, by all means continue) assuming his primary goal is avoiding being harmed.

Thanks for your typically insightful posts Robert.

PS - On weapons: weapons training is potentially invaluable. However in any of the scenarios the OP described, drawing down or pulling a knife on some drunk douche bag at the club is generally going to be difficult to justify IMO.

74

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

Self defence is what you do WHEN you are being attacked.

Of course,avoiding places,people and activities that makes attack more probable is great,but its not part of self defence.Its more about safer lifestyle.
Also,sprinting away from any threat can be of great help to stay safe & healthy,but I dont consider this to be self-defence.
So,youre all overstretching definition of self defence IMO. [/quote]

Well, neglecting those things is one of the common criticisms about martial arts/combat sports being marketed as “self defense” systems. I also notice the wiki definition you linked to has things Sento and batman wrote about later in the page.

I am not trying to stretch the definition of self defense, but I agree that in the legal sense “self defense” is only happening in “hot” situations. At that point it is a “run what you brung” situation and it is best to be trained and well equipped/armed, but regardless you must “Resolve to be brutal enough, early enough.”

So, this is more of a case of me saying all of these things need to be considered as part of “self-defense” and you are coming from the more “Self defense is a very specific thing. The other stuff is part of a whole, but that whole is not called self defense.” Am I tracking this ok?

Regards,

Robert A

75

just stumbled upon this video and thought it was relevant to the thread
- YouTube

76

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

Self defence is what you do WHEN you are being attacked.

Of course,avoiding places,people and activities that makes attack more probable is great,but its not part of self defence.Its more about safer lifestyle.
Also,sprinting away from any threat can be of great help to stay safe & healthy,but I dont consider this to be self-defence.
So,youre all overstretching definition of self defence IMO. [/quote]

Well, neglecting those things is one of the common criticisms about martial arts/combat sports being marketed as “self defense” systems. I also notice the wiki definition you linked to has things Sento and batman wrote about later in the page.

I am not trying to stretch the definition of self defense, but I agree that in the legal sense “self defense” is only happening in “hot” situations. At that point it is a “run what you brung” situation and it is best to be trained and well equipped/armed, but regardless you must “Resolve to be brutal enough, early enough.”

So, this is more of a case of me saying all of these things need to be considered as part of “self-defense” and you are coming from the more “Self defense is a very specific thing. The other stuff is part of a whole, but that whole is not called self defense.” Am I tracking this ok?

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

No,Robert.Its exactly and literaly as I posted.

If you choose not to go to the A bar,coz its kind of dodgy place where fights frequently happen and you go to the B bar which is a more peaceful place,thats NOT self-defence.Calling that self-defence would be ridiculous.

If you make decisions like that all the time and put your safety at the top of list of priorities-thats lifestyle based on safety.Its not you self-defending 365 days a year :)))

77

If that’s the definition of self defense that you’re using, that’s fine, but it’s not the only definition of self defense, nor even a very comprehensive one IMO.

Let’s take your definition and put it in another context to illustrate my and batman’s points. Let’s take cavity defense since it’s something we can all pretty much relate to. By your definition the only thing that would. Constitute cavity defense would be drilling out the decayed parts of the tooth and then filling that area, pulling the tooth, or performing a root canal procedure. Ask any good dentist though and they’ll likely tell you that cavity defense consists of:

  1. Avoiding extremely sugary foods or at least only eating them occasionally
  2. Brushing and flossing daily (multiple times would be even better)
  3. Getting regular professional cleanings and X-rays
  4. Getting cavities filled early if they are present
  5. Getting root canals of extractions if you failed to do all of the above and then start at #1.

2/3 of the above cavity defense is prevention, why would self defense be any different?

78

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If that’s the definition of self defense that you’re using, that’s fine, but it’s not the only definition of self defense, nor even a very comprehensive one IMO.

Let’s take your definition and put it in another context to illustrate my and batman’s points. Let’s take cavity defense since it’s something we can all pretty much relate to. By your definition the only thing that would. Constitute cavity defense would be drilling out the decayed parts of the tooth and then filling that area, pulling the tooth, or performing a root canal procedure. Ask any good dentist though and they’ll likely tell you that cavity defense consists of:

  1. Avoiding extremely sugary foods or at least only eating them occasionally
  2. Brushing and flossing daily (multiple times would be even better)
  3. Getting regular professional cleanings and X-rays
  4. Getting cavities filled early if they are present
  5. Getting root canals of extractions if you failed to do all of the above and then start at #1.

2/3 of the above cavity defense is prevention, why would self defense be any different? [/quote]

Does it really matter?

I think making decision to be safe are lifestyle decision and dealing with situation when you are actually /about to be attacked is self defence.

Most street fights are around nightclubs,discos,bars,etc. on a Saturday night.I dont want to stay safe in front of TV at home on Saturday night.I d rather go and party,chase women,drink and go wherever the hell I want to go.And I dont consider myself bad ass at all for that lifestyle.I consider it just normal.And I still want to be able to defend myself and not resort to sprinting away in fear if faced with situation.

79

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If that’s the definition of self defense that you’re using, that’s fine, but it’s not the only definition of self defense, nor even a very comprehensive one IMO.

Let’s take your definition and put it in another context to illustrate my and batman’s points. Let’s take cavity defense since it’s something we can all pretty much relate to. By your definition the only thing that would. Constitute cavity defense would be drilling out the decayed parts of the tooth and then filling that area, pulling the tooth, or performing a root canal procedure. Ask any good dentist though and they’ll likely tell you that cavity defense consists of:

  1. Avoiding extremely sugary foods or at least only eating them occasionally
  2. Brushing and flossing daily (multiple times would be even better)
  3. Getting regular professional cleanings and X-rays
  4. Getting cavities filled early if they are present
  5. Getting root canals of extractions if you failed to do all of the above and then start at #1.

2/3 of the above cavity defense is prevention, why would self defense be any different? [/quote]

Does it really matter?

I think making decision to be safe are lifestyle decision and dealing with situation when you are actually /about to be attacked is self defence.

Most street fights are around nightclubs,discos,bars,etc. on a Saturday night.I dont want to stay safe in front of TV at home on Saturday night.I d rather go and party,chase women,drink and go wherever the hell I want to go.And I dont consider myself bad ass at all for that lifestyle.I consider it just normal.And I still want to be able to defend myself and not resort to sprinting away in fear if faced with situation.
[/quote]

That’s fine, but you’ve accepted that you will probably be in fights and may get your ass kicked. I’m not sure how things are where you are, but near me when you kick a guy’s ass outside a bar (in any part of town):

  1. the cops WILL show up.
  2. You WILL spend the night in jail if anyone saw so much as your license plate as you drove away
  3. The guy you beat down WILL sue you for all that you are worth, even if he attacked you.

Knowing this, I would still go out, but I kept my head down and didn’t go picking fights. I was fine. I also didn’t do too badly with the ladies (most of them hate it when you’re fighting, win or lose). If you feel the need to chest-thump and talk shit, be ready to be on intimate terms with local law enforcement and a decent lawyer, if not the paramedics when one of the asshole’s friend pulls a knife and puts in it your ribs while you’re not looking.

That’s not to say you shouldn’t learn to fight, but getting into a fight has nothing but bad outcomes. Knowing how to fight just lets you manage exactly how bad the outcome will be, and it takes a considerable investment of time and energy to get good enough that you’ll be dangerous to a sizable percentage of your local bar thugs. You don’t have to be a monk to avoid fights, but you do need to be a grown up who isn’t out looking to prove something. Some people learn this the easy way, some the hard way, and some never learn until they’re handcuffed to a hospital bed.

80

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If that’s the definition of self defense that you’re using, that’s fine, but it’s not the only definition of self defense, nor even a very comprehensive one IMO.

Let’s take your definition and put it in another context to illustrate my and batman’s points. Let’s take cavity defense since it’s something we can all pretty much relate to. By your definition the only thing that would. Constitute cavity defense would be drilling out the decayed parts of the tooth and then filling that area, pulling the tooth, or performing a root canal procedure. Ask any good dentist though and they’ll likely tell you that cavity defense consists of:

  1. Avoiding extremely sugary foods or at least only eating them occasionally
  2. Brushing and flossing daily (multiple times would be even better)
  3. Getting regular professional cleanings and X-rays
  4. Getting cavities filled early if they are present
  5. Getting root canals of extractions if you failed to do all of the above and then start at #1.

2/3 of the above cavity defense is prevention, why would self defense be any different? [/quote]

Does it really matter?

I think making decision to be safe are lifestyle decision and dealing with situation when you are actually /about to be attacked is self defence.

Most street fights are around nightclubs,discos,bars,etc. on a Saturday night.I dont want to stay safe in front of TV at home on Saturday night.I d rather go and party,chase women,drink and go wherever the hell I want to go.And I dont consider myself bad ass at all for that lifestyle.I consider it just normal.And I still want to be able to defend myself and not resort to sprinting away in fear if faced with situation.
[/quote]

That’s fine, but you’ve accepted that you will probably be in fights and may get your ass kicked. I’m not sure how things are where you are, but near me when you kick a guy’s ass outside a bar (in any part of town):

  1. the cops WILL show up.
  2. You WILL spend the night in jail if anyone saw so much as your license plate as you drove away
  3. The guy you beat down WILL sue you for all that you are worth, even if he attacked you.

Knowing this, I would still go out, but I kept my head down and didn’t go picking fights. I was fine. I also didn’t do too badly with the ladies (most of them hate it when you’re fighting, win or lose). If you feel the need to chest-thump and talk shit, be ready to be on intimate terms with local law enforcement and a decent lawyer, if not the paramedics when one of the asshole’s friend pulls a knife and puts in it your ribs while you’re not looking.

That’s not to say you shouldn’t learn to fight, but getting into a fight has nothing but bad outcomes. Knowing how to fight just lets you manage exactly how bad the outcome will be, and it takes a considerable investment of time and energy to get good enough that you’ll be dangerous to a sizable percentage of your local bar thugs. You don’t have to be a monk to avoid fights, but you do need to be a grown up who isn’t out looking to prove something. So people learn this the easy way, some the hard way, and some never learn until they’re handcuffed to a hospital bed.[/quote]

Yes,I generally agree with you.

Fighting on street is very costly.
This thread went to direction of prevention fighting in the first place.But this avoidance /awareness stuff can be taken too far.And this aproach is limited.

From the position of average person,it doesnt make sense to play football,speed with your car,smoke and eat junk food (risk behaviour),and then make a big deal of selecting where to go and when in fear that you might get in situation to defend yourself or scaning your enviroment like a paranoid 24-7 or something like that.I consider that to be excessive.
Average person in USA is likely to live quiet,9-5 work,mostly boring,suburban life until about 80 years old.He is more likely to die/end up hurt from traffic accident,obesity,and twice as likely to die from suicide than homocide.
A bit of awareness and prevention is great,but lets relax…we live (USA,Europe) in a rather safe enviroment compared to other places (Colombia,South Africa,…) and other times ( 100 years ago and before).