Best Strength Program?

Training Powerlifting
41

[quote]GruntOrama wrote:
In 2 years of training I have come to realize the keys to getting strong are:

  1. Straining - Strain hard to get stronger, doesn’t matter if its 8RM, 3RM, or 1RM.

  2. Speed - Move fast or get stuck.

  3. Volume - Volume is your friend.

  4. Frequency - The more you do something the better you get at it.

  5. Variation - Change rep schemes or exercise selection often.

Be wary of doing too much, as it can be detrimental to your training. Be consistent with your training.

Lift heavy shit quickly a lot.

[/quote]

Now I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this, but do those five principles hold true for each lift? I know that for me personally, Smolov really taught me how to grind under control whereas, for pressing, I’ve found that heavy, fast, singles are my bread and butter and speed pulls against bands blow up my deadlift.

42

[quote]Sutebun wrote:
There’s no “best program”…there are programs good for some individuals and horrible for others. Unless you want to start discussing very specialized/gimmicky programs (20 rep squats for example) and their effectiveness, it’s too difficult to compare programs because the individual comes before the program.

There are two things a good program should have:
A good program should have you progressing and it should be teaching you something.

I think the second is often over looked. People do get better with age in this game, and experience/learning are a big factor.[/quote]

Agreed.

43

I’m still a noob with best lifts of 160 kg/350 lbs squat (high bar because of depth issues) 135 kg/295 lbs Bench and 225 kg/~490 lbs Deadlift. I lift basically everyday maxing out on squats, benches max out m/w/f work on other days, deadlifting 3-4 times a week. Its working so far, I am sub-junior now an d am looking to do 220/180/300 or approx 500/395/660 as a junior. Lifting often really keeps you ready and loose and gives you confidence because you handle.competition weight so often

44

Best strength program revolves around recovery and diet. The programs talked about here all work. How well they work depends on your recovery ability.

45

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/trivium#myForums/thread/5890627/

Pick one, give it 3 months as written and either adapt it to meet your needs, or change programs.

I personally have run 5/3/1 for almost 2 years without stall. It seems like when my leg lifts progress, my upper body lifts crawl. Now that my back suffered a small injury and I have to go light with my squat and deadlift, my upper body lifts are moving much faster than before.

46

I am wondering if everyone knows that there is another 5/3/1 book, called Beyond 5/3/1
Far better than the previous. Far more programming options.
Just throwing that out there in case people are basing there experience off of the standard 5/3/1 ideas.

[quote]tredaway wrote:
It appears that the weak link in the 531 program seems to be the bench with most people saying that they need more frequency.[/quote]

If you do Template 2 of the BBB(Boring But Big), you can bench twice a week.
Once on your 5/3/1 day, and then again for the BBB on your Military Press day.
Not to mention, depending on your sleep, food, ect… you can throw in some pushups, other, on your off days. I do back(pullups only), biceps,and calves on off days. Along with supersetting with some pushups, wide, regular, diamond. Some Tricep work.
Its a template, and can be modified of course. Nothing set in stone. However, if you feel like crap, did not get enough sleep whatever, you can just do your regular workouts only.

47

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.
[/quote]

dont let some people on here hear you say that. they think westside is some magical strength ten commandments passed down from on high by thor and odin. its crazy that its only really in the past few years that people have realized its nothing like what its cracked up to be and massively inferior to other methods.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with this.

Why is it that people have to either say Louie is a god and Westside is the be-all end-all or they have to say Louie is crap and Westside is overrated.

Why can’t we just say: Westside is a very good program that has worked for many people and Louie is a very good coach who has contributed to the success of many great lifters?

I personally don’t believe there is a best program. Different people respond to different things. The same can be true for an individual over the course of their lifting career. I do think all good programs allow for progression and have some sort of underlying theme (whether it is volume like Sheiko or intensity like Westside, or slow steady progress like 5/3/1).

48

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.
[/quote]

dont let some people on here hear you say that. they think westside is some magical strength ten commandments passed down from on high by thor and odin. its crazy that its only really in the past few years that people have realized its nothing like what its cracked up to be and massively inferior to other methods.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with this.

Why is it that people have to either say Louie is a god and Westside is the be-all end-all or they have to say Louie is crap and Westside is overrated.

Why can’t we just say: Westside is a very good program that has worked for many people and Louie is a very good coach who has contributed to the success of many great lifters?

I personally don’t believe there is a best program. Different people respond to different things. The same can be true for an individual over the course of their lifting career. I do think all good programs allow for progression and have some sort of underlying theme (whether it is volume like Sheiko or intensity like Westside, or slow steady progress like 5/3/1).[/quote]

all right how many raw lifters has it worked for? one in a thousand? i mean really worked, as in elite or record holders, not “oh it put 20 pounds onto my 200 pound bench” thats not a good program then.

and sure hes probably a good gear coach, i really dont care about that though. the bad judging/high squats, and yes 90% of geared squats are high, and the amount of carryover they get make it very difficult to say how much is strength and how much is being good in gear

49

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.
[/quote]

dont let some people on here hear you say that. they think westside is some magical strength ten commandments passed down from on high by thor and odin. its crazy that its only really in the past few years that people have realized its nothing like what its cracked up to be and massively inferior to other methods.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with this.

Why is it that people have to either say Louie is a god and Westside is the be-all end-all or they have to say Louie is crap and Westside is overrated.

Why can’t we just say: Westside is a very good program that has worked for many people and Louie is a very good coach who has contributed to the success of many great lifters?

I personally don’t believe there is a best program. Different people respond to different things. The same can be true for an individual over the course of their lifting career. I do think all good programs allow for progression and have some sort of underlying theme (whether it is volume like Sheiko or intensity like Westside, or slow steady progress like 5/3/1).[/quote]

all right how many raw lifters has it worked for? one in a thousand? i mean really worked, as in elite or record holders, not “oh it put 20 pounds onto my 200 pound bench” thats not a good program then.

and sure hes probably a good gear coach, i really dont care about that though. the bad judging/high squats, and yes 90% of geared squats are high, and the amount of carryover they get make it very difficult to say how much is strength and how much is being good in gear[/quote]

That’s some faulty reasoning. No program consistently produces elite lifters/record holders.

50

[quote]GruntOrama wrote:

Lift heavy shit quickly a lot.

[/quote]
The best program ever created!

51

Near miss.

My point: You need to practice the lift to know how to do the lift.

The guy from Westside had, to me, obviously NOT practiced the lift, merely trained body parts which normally effect the lift (read :“some method”). Jumped to the end point having not spent time between that point and start.

Not bashing Westside, I’m bashing the concept that a newbie (the gentleman in example) thought that he could tackle a meet event having not experienced the lift itself.

Once you are a practitioner skilled in the art, that is in the elite classes, it is quite fine to charge at the asymptote by engaging in the conjugate methods, though there are other ways to do the same.

New people need to leave the exotic methods, if ever utilized at all, for the point in their careers where they are nearing their limits and where what they been doing ain’t cutting it no more. So say I. Your mileage is accepted.

52

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.
[/quote]

dont let some people on here hear you say that. they think westside is some magical strength ten commandments passed down from on high by thor and odin. its crazy that its only really in the past few years that people have realized its nothing like what its cracked up to be and massively inferior to other methods.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with this.

Why is it that people have to either say Louie is a god and Westside is the be-all end-all or they have to say Louie is crap and Westside is overrated.

Why can’t we just say: Westside is a very good program that has worked for many people and Louie is a very good coach who has contributed to the success of many great lifters?

I personally don’t believe there is a best program. Different people respond to different things. The same can be true for an individual over the course of their lifting career. I do think all good programs allow for progression and have some sort of underlying theme (whether it is volume like Sheiko or intensity like Westside, or slow steady progress like 5/3/1).[/quote]

all right how many raw lifters has it worked for? one in a thousand? i mean really worked, as in elite or record holders, not “oh it put 20 pounds onto my 200 pound bench” thats not a good program then.

and sure hes probably a good gear coach, i really dont care about that though. the bad judging/high squats, and yes 90% of geared squats are high, and the amount of carryover they get make it very difficult to say how much is strength and how much is being good in gear[/quote]

So you’re saying that you think westside is a bad program because it’s mainly designed for geared lifters and you’re a raw guy? Thats like saying saying you don’t care that a baseball coach can get your batting average up because you’re a football player. I’m a raw lifter too and I’ll probably never run westside just because I prefer high frequency but its ridiculous to deny that westside has created some great lifters.

53

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.
[/quote]

dont let some people on here hear you say that. they think westside is some magical strength ten commandments passed down from on high by thor and odin. its crazy that its only really in the past few years that people have realized its nothing like what its cracked up to be and massively inferior to other methods.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with this.

Why is it that people have to either say Louie is a god and Westside is the be-all end-all or they have to say Louie is crap and Westside is overrated.

Why can’t we just say: Westside is a very good program that has worked for many people and Louie is a very good coach who has contributed to the success of many great lifters?

I personally don’t believe there is a best program. Different people respond to different things. The same can be true for an individual over the course of their lifting career. I do think all good programs allow for progression and have some sort of underlying theme (whether it is volume like Sheiko or intensity like Westside, or slow steady progress like 5/3/1).[/quote]

all right how many raw lifters has it worked for? one in a thousand? i mean really worked, as in elite or record holders, not “oh it put 20 pounds onto my 200 pound bench” thats not a good program then.

and sure hes probably a good gear coach, i really dont care about that though. the bad judging/high squats, and yes 90% of geared squats are high, and the amount of carryover they get make it very difficult to say how much is strength and how much is being good in gear[/quote]

So you’re saying that you think westside is a bad program because it’s mainly designed for geared lifters and you’re a raw guy? Thats like saying saying you don’t care that a baseball coach can get your batting average up because you’re a football player. I’m a raw lifter too and I’ll probably never run westside just because I prefer high frequency but its ridiculous to deny that westside has created some great lifters.[/quote]

why would i care about my batting average if im a football player? how would that benefit my football playing? is that a typo or are you retarded? also which great raw lifters has it created?

54

also i never said its necessarily a bad program for geared guys, i said i cant quantify what they do in gear, squatting high.

55

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:

So you’re saying that you think westside is a bad program because it’s mainly designed for geared lifters and you’re a raw guy?

Thats like saying saying you don’t care that a baseball coach can get your batting average up because you’re a football player. [/quote]

Is it really like saying that? Just like saying that?

I’m sorry, I’m not part of the above argument, but that was a really bad analogy and even if it were good, arguments by analogy are fallacious by definition.

No offense, but argue the point if you must argue at all.

Again, I am on neither your side or his.

But I think you’d have had him with a simple “prove it.”

56

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:

So you’re saying that you think westside is a bad program because it’s mainly designed for geared lifters and you’re a raw guy?

Thats like saying saying you don’t care that a baseball coach can get your batting average up because you’re a football player. [/quote]

Is it really like saying that? Just like saying that?

I’m sorry, I’m not part of the above argument, but that was a really bad analogy and even if it were good, arguments by analogy are fallacious by definition.

No offense, but argue the point if you must argue at all.

Again, I am on neither your side or his.[/quote]

awwwww cmon you must be sorta on my side!pretty please?

57

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:

So you’re saying that you think westside is a bad program because it’s mainly designed for geared lifters and you’re a raw guy?

Thats like saying saying you don’t care that a baseball coach can get your batting average up because you’re a football player. [/quote]

Is it really like saying that? Just like saying that?

I’m sorry, I’m not part of the above argument, but that was a really bad analogy and even if it were good, arguments by analogy are fallacious by definition.

No offense, but argue the point if you must argue at all.

Again, I am on neither your side or his.

But I think you’d have had him with a simple “prove it.”[/quote]

I was just saying that westside is known for geared lifting and raw lifting is a totally different thing. Both for competition and training so it is pretty irrelevant of what a raw lifter thinks of geared training.

58

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.
[/quote]

dont let some people on here hear you say that. they think westside is some magical strength ten commandments passed down from on high by thor and odin. its crazy that its only really in the past few years that people have realized its nothing like what its cracked up to be and massively inferior to other methods.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with this.

Why is it that people have to either say Louie is a god and Westside is the be-all end-all or they have to say Louie is crap and Westside is overrated.

Why can’t we just say: Westside is a very good program that has worked for many people and Louie is a very good coach who has contributed to the success of many great lifters?

I personally don’t believe there is a best program. Different people respond to different things. The same can be true for an individual over the course of their lifting career. I do think all good programs allow for progression and have some sort of underlying theme (whether it is volume like Sheiko or intensity like Westside, or slow steady progress like 5/3/1).[/quote]

all right how many raw lifters has it worked for? one in a thousand? i mean really worked, as in elite or record holders, not “oh it put 20 pounds onto my 200 pound bench” thats not a good program then.

and sure hes probably a good gear coach, i really dont care about that though. the bad judging/high squats, and yes 90% of geared squats are high, and the amount of carryover they get make it very difficult to say how much is strength and how much is being good in gear[/quote]

So you’re saying that you think westside is a bad program because it’s mainly designed for geared lifters and you’re a raw guy? Thats like saying saying you don’t care that a baseball coach can get your batting average up because you’re a football player. I’m a raw lifter too and I’ll probably never run westside just because I prefer high frequency but its ridiculous to deny that westside has created some great lifters.[/quote]

why would i care about my batting average if im a football player? how would that benefit my football playing? is that a typo or are you retarded? also which great raw lifters has it created?
[/quote]

That’s the entire point. You wouldn’t hire or judge a baseball coach because that would be stupid. So as a raw lifter why would you use a training method that developed its reputation on geared lifters? And don’t call me a retard because you can’t understand a basic comparison you little shit.

59

i am SO sorry…

the guy is more than likely raw. as are about 90%+ lifters. therefore westside is a bad choice. is that simple enough?

60

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i am SO sorry…

the guy is more than likely raw. as are about 90%+ lifters. therefore westside is a bad choice. is that simple enough?[/quote]

No sarcasm there at allâ?¦ If my comparisons don’t make sense then call me on it and if I’m wrong explain why but a little respect goes a long way. Theres a little life lesson for you