Best Strength Program?

Training Powerlifting
21

I write most of my own stuff but it is westside based, with the exception of my volume phases which are basically modified 5/3/1

700 raw squat at 245lbs (yes I have leaned out to 245), 370 raw bench at 245 with a partially torn pec (so it was close grip), and I have mostly hit cambered bar and straight bar work but went up to 585 on pulls and kept the speed up close to speed work range… so I should have a good raw meet soon.

This training cycle I switched up my split quite a bit, and ME/DE are done on the same day, with a 5 day split instead of twice a week. Very vague description of my training, but it would take a lot of space to write out everything I did this training cycle and why… it seemed to work well though. Added about 50lbs to my squat in about 2-3 months, and I was starting off with a 650 raw squat, so it wasn’t quick gains because I had poor starting development.

22

The best program for you is the program that works best for you. Just stick long enough with something to measure your progress.

23

alot of interesting posts, I really enjoy reading all of the comments you guys put down! Ill be sure to use some of the advices you guys provided!

Squat- 385
Deadlift- 405
Bench-275
(took me aprox. 2 years to gain all that strength and I’ve got to where I am because of the sacrifices, dedication, and commitment i’ve done.)

24

5/3/1 didn’t work out great for me. I had to reset way to much and my bench regressed 25lb (300-275). I’ve had some success with Westside style conjugate training. It’s what took my bench from 245-300 in a year. Also brought my DL up from 425-455 and squat to 305x2 to 355 in that same year. The biggest drawback to Westside is that it takes time to figure out weaknesses and what helps bring them up.

25

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
5/3/1 didn’t work out great for me. I had to reset way to much and my bench regressed 25lb (300-275). I’ve had some success with Westside style conjugate training. It’s what took my bench from 245-300 in a year. Also brought my DL up from 425-455 and squat to 305x2 to 355 in that same year. The biggest drawback to Westside is that it takes time to figure out weaknesses and what helps bring them up. [/quote]

It is well worth it though. It is the reason my raw squat hasn’t went up less than 100lbs per year on average, for the past 4 years. Especially over the past 2 years when the average was more like 150lb.

You just have to actually hit your weaknesses, without ignoring your strengths.

26

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
5/3/1 didn’t work out great for me. I had to reset way to much and my bench regressed 25lb (300-275). I’ve had some success with Westside style conjugate training. It’s what took my bench from 245-300 in a year. Also brought my DL up from 425-455 and squat to 305x2 to 355 in that same year. The biggest drawback to Westside is that it takes time to figure out weaknesses and what helps bring them up. [/quote]

It is well worth it though. It is the reason my raw squat hasn’t went up less than 100lbs per year on average, for the past 4 years. Especially over the past 2 years when the average was more like 150lb.

You just have to actually hit your weaknesses, without ignoring your strengths. [/quote]

I would love to give a Westside/Conjugate inspired system a good run, but this is probably the biggest thing holding me back from doing it.

I travel so much for work I don’t think I would be able to really take full advantage of the ME variations and proper assistance. Its kinda hard to plan for bands, chains, etc. and program them with any sort of consistecy when I don’t even know what gym I’ll be training at in any given week.

This is why I’ve stuck with 5-3-1 for so long. I know that as long as I can find a gym with some barbells, I will at least be able to do my main movement for the day. A lot of times, I will just do the main move and leave (“I’m not doing jack shit template”).

One day!

27

I have found a couple of different strategies work well for me atm. I use a simple linear progression system for my bench, just add weight every 2nd workout and also twice the frequency of training comared to other 2 lifts, for my squat I have the best progress from a program written by a strength coach called PPP (progressive poundage program) and I find my own approach to deadlifts works better than any program I have used so far.

28

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
5/3/1 didn’t work out great for me. I had to reset way to much and my bench regressed 25lb (300-275). I’ve had some success with Westside style conjugate training. It’s what took my bench from 245-300 in a year. Also brought my DL up from 425-455 and squat to 305x2 to 355 in that same year. The biggest drawback to Westside is that it takes time to figure out weaknesses and what helps bring them up. [/quote]

It is well worth it though. It is the reason my raw squat hasn’t went up less than 100lbs per year on average, for the past 4 years. Especially over the past 2 years when the average was more like 150lb.

You just have to actually hit your weaknesses, without ignoring your strengths. [/quote]

I think I found out what makes my squat work because I got a 45lb PR on squat in 12 weeks. Now I just need to refigure out what’s going to help my bench so I can get back to 300.

29

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
5/3/1 didn’t work out great for me. I had to reset way to much and my bench regressed 25lb (300-275). I’ve had some success with Westside style conjugate training. It’s what took my bench from 245-300 in a year. Also brought my DL up from 425-455 and squat to 305x2 to 355 in that same year. The biggest drawback to Westside is that it takes time to figure out weaknesses and what helps bring them up. [/quote]

It is well worth it though. It is the reason my raw squat hasn’t went up less than 100lbs per year on average, for the past 4 years. Especially over the past 2 years when the average was more like 150lb.

You just have to actually hit your weaknesses, without ignoring your strengths. [/quote]

You are supposed to figure out and work weaknesses on 5/3/1 too.

30

[quote]arramzy wrote:

[quote]buddaboy wrote:
The more advanced you get, the more progress you make, the harder it becomes to get stronger, this is where conjugate training is king, IMO, because it specifically caters for this by constant rotation of exercises.

A more simplified system, such as 5/3/1 (suspiciously similar to Bill Starr’s 5x5 in ‘the strongest shall survive’) can be just as effective.

I believe that the trick is to keep varying the most effective exercises to avoid accommodation, in order to keep progressing. At some point progress will stall and variety will be required, if you factor this into your training (assuming diet is correct, and rest) you should keep progressing.[/quote]

“You can’t do the same thing or you won’t get stronger!” A common notion but not entirely true IMO. Personal example, I have done essentially nothing but sq/bp/dl for essentially the entire duration of my powerlifting career (less than 3 years) and have made it to:
300kg+sq (not done in contest yet but this is reasonable as I have 280kg 2x2 straps down)
200kg+bp (207kg done in training)
260kg+dl (250kg is PR from a while ago)
This is single ply, drug free lifting at 93kg. Not trying to boast but merely saying that I don’t think I fall into beginner category anymore as this will put my wilks close to or hopefully at 500 at my next meet.

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

Now if I train conjugate system, I never really spend any time practising the competition movements! This makes it so that I probably won’t be as good at them. Thus perhaps I will be stronger at general movements, but as I am less practised at the lifts I actually care about (again, sq/bp/dl) I might not lift more when competing against the guy who has squated 4 times a week for the past 4 years.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. I suppose I am biased because I choose to look at raw or single ply lifters. I guess you see more world champions of multiply lifting training conjugate. Anyways, thats enough of a rant. Again, no intent to be a dick or rude, just my opinion.[/quote]

I would definately agree that the Skill side of training really does get over looked A LOT!

31

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
5/3/1 didn’t work out great for me. I had to reset way to much and my bench regressed 25lb (300-275). I’ve had some success with Westside style conjugate training. It’s what took my bench from 245-300 in a year. Also brought my DL up from 425-455 and squat to 305x2 to 355 in that same year. The biggest drawback to Westside is that it takes time to figure out weaknesses and what helps bring them up. [/quote]

It is well worth it though. It is the reason my raw squat hasn’t went up less than 100lbs per year on average, for the past 4 years. Especially over the past 2 years when the average was more like 150lb.

You just have to actually hit your weaknesses, without ignoring your strengths. [/quote]

You are supposed to figure out and work weaknesses on 5/3/1 too.[/quote]

I would agree on this.most people will try a program like 5/3/1 and “tweak it” to the point of not being 5/3/1 and then say its didn’t work for them when they never did it right to begin with.

32

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.

33

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

So this is where I think the concept of ‘practise’ gets ignored in powerlifting. Everyone thinks they just need to get ‘strong’ and then they will lift more. I guess the way I think about it is that I don’t care how ‘strong’ I am, but rather I care how much I can do on the sq/bp/dl. How to you get good at doing something? You do it! You sq, you bp and you dl! When you practise, you train your body to perform those motions impecably.

I really want to stress that this is not intended to be a generalization that any trainign style is better or worse, but merely that I think people are often blidn to the concept of practise. A gymnast or a football player or a soccer player or whatever frikcing sport you want to think of (including olympic lifting even), people get better at doing what they do in contest by spending endless hours doing it in practise! Perhaps powerlifters should appreciate this a little more is all I am getting at. Ever look at Ed Coans training style? Andrey Malanichev? Balyaev? Fedosienko? Olech? All of them perform the competition lifts with high regularity. [/quote]

“Hey Buddy, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?” “Practice, practice, practice” (So goes the joke)

arramzy’s words are sage, sage, sage.

Some people need to do dozens of real, solid, 3 whites reps 3 times a week, others twice and others once a week. I suppose after you’ve been doing PL for a decade or so, many might be able to back off on frequency or redefine what frequency means, but for beginners? Listen to arramzy.

But solid form, competition worth quality movements done over and over and over put the matter into the spine where it belongs. Like playing a piano at Carnegie hall: it better be ground into your nature, you can’t be thinking “what do I do now?” while your fingers are tearing up the ivory.

Anecdotally, judged deadlift flights at a state meet once where there was a guy who trained at Westside (so said he). He told us that they didn’t train deadlift at all. They had some method. Do tell. So comes deadlifts and he hitched all 3 sumo attempts, couldn’t even really lock out, and he bombed out. Looked like he had never done them before, like some grade school kid at his first dance, didn’t know what to do with his feet and hands. It appeared to me that with even 4 weeks of practice and he could have at least finished the contest.
[/quote]

dont let some people on here hear you say that. they think westside is some magical strength ten commandments passed down from on high by thor and odin. its crazy that its only really in the past few years that people have realized its nothing like what its cracked up to be and massively inferior to other methods.

34

Pick a program that worked for many people or pick one that at least look like it should work (some kind of progressive overload, compund movements etc.) and STICK to it for months or years if works well. One more thing, pick one that you BELIEVE in. The rest is up to you.

35

I’m another one that didn’t have success with 531 although I do like the tweeks made to the program in beyond 531 with the joker sets etc.
It appears that the weak link in the 531 program seems to be the bench with most people saying that they need more frequency.

36

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I’m far from the strongest guy on here, but I’ve made pretty decent progress over the past couple years with 5-3-1. I’d say that all in all, I rotate through about 10 different exercises ONLY.

This would include the Big 4 obviously (squat,bench,DL, OHP) and for assistance it would be good mornings, front squats (or SSB squats, same thing), Ab wheel, Pullups, Rows, GHR…occasionally I will throw in some curls and dips for shits and giggles, but these 10 exercises make up about 95% of my training. No speed work, no frilly ME stuff, just good basic programming, patience, and consistency.[/quote]

Preach it, brother. Paul Carter (say what you will about him) shares similar contentions in that, as lifters, we all have those pet lifts that, when pushed at different times w/in different parameters, make us stronger. As has been said, find those that work for you and kill it.

I know that for me personally, there are plenty of lifts that Lou might recommend b/c of the fact that I am weak in them, that don’t do anything for my actual competition lifts. I lift w/guys who swear by disadvantaging themselves via leverage (i.e front squats, close grip bench, and deficits) but, and I think this has been mentioned too, the only thing pushing those accessory lifts did for me was make me better at those accessory lifts.

I think it is rather interesting too that, and I believe it was Pendlay over on his forums that said it, but lifts we are naturally disadvantaged/less proficient at tend to be the ones that benefit the most from accessory work.

Thoughts?

37

[quote]daraz wrote:
In the words of Savickas when asked how to get strong:

Lots and lots of heavy training[/quote]

And how do we good at squatting…?

In my personal opinion, by squatting.

38

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
The best program is the one that gets me the best numbers on the platform.[/quote]

And I think that really comes back to the contention that “everything works but nothing works forever” belief.

39

[quote]burt128 wrote:
I trained conjugate style for 10+ years. I then switched to 5/3/1 and am now doing Sheiko. Stronger now than I have ever been. Turns out high volume works for me. [/quote]

And I think that too comes back to simply varying the training stimulus. I followed a very similar progression from Starting Strength, to more of a Conjugate-style (akin to Westisde), then to 5/3/1, peaked w/Smolov, and am now running more of a Bulgarian-inspired approach.

The thing is, and I think this has been said before too, everything works/will work if you believe in it. When things start to stagnate, I just switch it up.

40

[quote]gorangers0525 wrote:

I honestly feel that if you use assistance work that actually helps your lifts, aren’t afraid to take a step back to take three steps forward and de-load properly, 5/3/1 could be used for a lifetime.[/quote]

And, if I’m not mistaken, that is exactly what Jim intended when he wrote the program.