[quote]IvanDmitritch wrote:
My favorites are The Dead Kennedys, The Clash, Agent Orange, Voodoo Glow Skulls, The Vandals, X, Guttermouth, Social Distortion, Bad Religion, and Strung Out… [/quote]
I remembered 'um 
I like the early 80’s hardcore stuff best, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, Circle Jerks Bad Brains. I also really like Mission of Burma. Didn’t see them mentioned.
There’s so fucking much good punk it’d be impossible to fit it all into one thread.
Bad Brains. They inspired a generation. In a class by themselves.
They’re STILL doin’ it, too. I saw them last summer in Asbury Park. Though HR isn’t the thin spaz he used to be (he now has the gracious stage presence of a holy man), they were as heavy and vital as ever.
No modern punk bands today come close to the old school. Green Day, Blink 182, Sum 41… all pussies by comparison. I saw all the greats back in the 80’s, and there was a real momentum going. The “what’s in it for me” Reagan years were fodder for outspoken, aggressive, abrasive music.
i’d like to add PROPAGANDHI to the list, easily one of the best bands ever.
[quote]supermonkey wrote:
I can’t really agree that the British punk sound came first or that it originated in Britain. The term is used several times to describe American bands specifically and the music scene of the US, Britain and Australia (I am pretty sure) in bit of a less specific way.
One of the first uses was to describe a compilation album of garage music called Nuggets (which I thought had some UK bands on it but it seems like it doesn’t after I looked through all of them)
Another source it is attributed to is Legs McNeil who started the first PUNK magazine called … Punk… Pretty creative. But he says he coined the term Punk.
"McNeil said that the magazine was inspired by two chief influences: Harvey Kurtzman and The Dictators’ debut album The Dictators Go Girl Crazy!, indicating that the magazine was started strictly so that its creators could “hang out with the Dictators”.[1]
Nicknamed “Resident Punk” in the magazine, he claims (to much dispute) that he was the first person (along with co-founder John Holmstrom) to have coined the term “punk” to describe a certain type of music, fashion, and attitude. He says he came up with the name punk because Telly Savalas used the line “You lousy punk!” on the show “Kojak.”"
To quote this link: Legs McNeil - Wikipedia
Here is another link describing protopunk. The bands that really started it. Punk rock - Wikipedia
The majority of it seems to be based out of the US. Of course Britain had a huge influence on it as well. But really it was more born out of the US than Britain.
Even the look associated with punk was attributed to an American silly man Richard Hell: “The band’s bassist/singer, Richard Hell, created a look with cropped, ragged hair, ripped T-shirts, and black leather jackets credited as the basis for punk rock visual style.”
The hilarious thing was that he was wearing ragged clothing that was held together with safety pins because he had no damn money. But this was picked up on by the fans. You will notice that the bands didn’t really dress like the fans. Btw that quote is from the last link I posted.
THIS is a great documentary about punk and its origins. - YouTube
The rest of the documentary is in that user’s videos.
I can’t remember the name of a great book about the history of punk rock which was just a huge collection of quotes from the musicians and others that were actually involved used to tell the story. If I can think of it I will post it.[/quote]
Pre-Punk is exactly, that, the music that came before punk and may have had an influence on it. It’s not punk, though. Punk comes from Britain. If you don’t like that label, then that’s fine, but the people, attitudes, music, fashion, it all happened in England. The name itself is American in origin, I’ll give you that.
Richard Hell is not punk. The New York punk scene is a bastardization of the London punk scene, and is largely a copy and rather fake and superficial. I believe Hell formed his ‘punk’ band in '76, after Television, which is after the London punk ‘movement’ had already taken off. Leather jackets and mohawks and studs and that nonsense is not a traditional punk look, it’s born of Hell and the American punk scene that formed after punk was already dead.
It ended up that everyone dressed like that, like the Ramones with their Chuck Taylors and leather jackets. real punks didn’t have uniforms. Everyone was an individual, and everyone dressed differently. There was a bit of a gang group mentality, though, but it was a banding together of individuals, not homogenized groupthink like the american stuff.
The safety pin thing is debatable. Some people attribute it to Richard Hell, others give it to John Lydon. It still stands that even if people were talking punk in America, they were doing punk in England.
So by your logic Vicomte, every genre is dead?
Seriously, go stroke your massive e-dick elsewhere. You’re a fucking fool for thinking punk is something that can “die”.
All of those “london bands” sold the fuck out, they don’t even deserve any respect in the genre.
Look, it is fun to talk about what is punk and what is not punk, but it’s useless to get into theological arguments about it (unless that entertains you). My point is that it is a battle from which there can come no definitive resolution.
Here goes one for you…where do Patti Smith or Nick Cave/Bad Seeds fit in?
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
Richard Hell is not punk. The New York punk scene is a bastardization of the London punk scene, and is largely a copy and rather fake and superficial. I believe Hell formed his ‘punk’ band in '76, after Television, which is after the London punk ‘movement’ had already taken off. Leather jackets and mohawks and studs and that nonsense is not a traditional punk look, it’s born of Hell and the American punk scene that formed after punk was already dead. [/quote]
Uh? What? Richard Hell was not punk? Then why did you say he was?
"The Ramones, New York Dolls, Richard Hell, perhaps the Talking Heads, these guys are early American Punk, which isn’t as hard as the later stuff. It’s still very different from the British stuff.
"
Very weird indeed. I guess WHO is punk depends on what suits what you want to believe when you want to believe it.
Richard Hell was also with another band before Richard Hell and the Voidoids and before Television.
Years active 1972-1974: Neon Boys - Wikipedia
The New York Dolls and the Ramones both came before the Sex Pistols.
New York Dolls n 1971 establishing themselves WELL before the Sex Pistols: New York Dolls - Wikipedia
The Ramones in 1974: Ramones - Wikipedia
The Sex Pistols formed in 1975 but weren’t quite the line up most are familiar with (including Sid Vicious) until 1977: Sex Pistols - Wikipedia
The manager of the Sex Pistols Malcolm McLaren is very important. He briefly managed the New York Dolls. While doing so he noticed a Mr. Richard Hell’s fashion.
“McLaren decided to change Let It Rock from a shop which sold Rockabilly/Teddy Boy style clothes to one which sold bondage and fetish clothing, including clothing designed by Westwood using the new ‘punk’ look McLaren had seen in New York. Let It Rock was renamed SEX and began to attract many of London’s disenfranchised youths who were attracted by the rebellious nature of the shop.”
Hello commercialization of Richard Hell’s look. In London…
Lots of imported goodness.
EVEN ONE OF THEIR SONGS WAS BASED ON WHAT MALCOLM MCLAREN GLEANED FROM RICHARD HELL!
"^ “I came back to England determined. I had these images I came back with, it was like Marco Polo or Walter Raleigh. I brought back the image of this distressed, strange thing called Richard Hell. And this phrase, ‘the blank generation’. […] Richard Hell was a definite, 100 percent inspiration, and, in fact, I remember telling the Sex Pistols, ?Write a song like Blank Generation, but write your own bloody version,? and their own version was 'Pretty Vacant?.? --Malcolm McLaren in an interview in Please Kill Me, the Uncensored Oral History of Punk by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain, Grove Press (1996), p. 199.”
There is more for sure but I wll just post this up for now.
Just in case anyone doesn’t want to read my long ass posts here is a GREAT documentary about punk music: http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=0XI85jPbcps
The other parts are in that user’s videos.
And this is a GREAT book about a LOT of history of punk music Please Kill Me, the Uncensored Oral History of Punk by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain, Grove Press (1996), p. 199.
It is comprised almost completely of quotes from people who were involved.
What about bands like Snapcase?
Shutdown?
Warzone?
[quote]entheogens wrote:
Here goes one for you…where do Patti Smith or Nick Cave/Bad Seeds fit in?[/quote]
Good question. And while we’re at it, what about the Velvet Underground?
Patti Smith and the Velvet Underground certainly influenced the development of American Punk (since some are intent on making that distinction)…
My favorite punk band is definately the Misfits. Post punk is harder for me to decide since it’s my favorite of the two categories…probably Bauhaus, but I also love Joy Division, and Siouxsie and the Banshees. Some of the more modern post punk stuff (I think its called post-punk revival) like Interpol and the Prids are quite fucking awesome. ESPECIALLY the Prids.
[quote]HangerBaby wrote:
So by your logic Vicomte, every genre is dead?
Seriously, go stroke your massive e-dick elsewhere. You’re a fucking fool for thinking punk is something that can “die”.
All of those “london bands” sold the fuck out, they don’t even deserve any respect in the genre. [/quote]
Why is it whenever I try to have a friendly discussion people get sandy vaginas?
[quote]supermonkey wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Richard Hell is not punk. The New York punk scene is a bastardization of the London punk scene, and is largely a copy and rather fake and superficial. I believe Hell formed his ‘punk’ band in '76, after Television, which is after the London punk ‘movement’ had already taken off. Leather jackets and mohawks and studs and that nonsense is not a traditional punk look, it’s born of Hell and the American punk scene that formed after punk was already dead.
Uh? What? Richard Hell was not punk? Then why did you say he was?
"The Ramones, New York Dolls, Richard Hell, perhaps the Talking Heads, these guys are early American Punk, which isn’t as hard as the later stuff. It’s still very different from the British stuff.
"
Very weird indeed. I guess WHO is punk depends on what suits what you want to believe when you want to believe it.
Richard Hell was also with another band before Richard Hell and the Voidoids and before Television.
Years active 1972-1974: Neon Boys - Wikipedia
The New York Dolls and the Ramones both came before the Sex Pistols.
New York Dolls n 1971 establishing themselves WELL before the Sex Pistols: New York Dolls - Wikipedia
The Ramones in 1974: Ramones - Wikipedia
The Sex Pistols formed in 1975 but weren’t quite the line up most are familiar with (including Sid Vicious) until 1977: Sex Pistols - Wikipedia
The manager of the Sex Pistols Malcolm McLaren is very important. He briefly managed the New York Dolls. While doing so he noticed a Mr. Richard Hell’s fashion.
“McLaren decided to change Let It Rock from a shop which sold Rockabilly/Teddy Boy style clothes to one which sold bondage and fetish clothing, including clothing designed by Westwood using the new ‘punk’ look McLaren had seen in New York. Let It Rock was renamed SEX and began to attract many of London’s disenfranchised youths who were attracted by the rebellious nature of the shop.”
Hello commercialization of Richard Hell’s look. In London…
Lots of imported goodness.
EVEN ONE OF THEIR SONGS WAS BASED ON WHAT MALCOLM MCLAREN GLEANED FROM RICHARD HELL!
"^ “I came back to England determined. I had these images I came back with, it was like Marco Polo or Walter Raleigh. I brought back the image of this distressed, strange thing called Richard Hell. And this phrase, ‘the blank generation’. […] Richard Hell was a definite, 100 percent inspiration, and, in fact, I remember telling the Sex Pistols, ?Write a song like Blank Generation, but write your own bloody version,? and their own version was 'Pretty Vacant?.? --Malcolm McLaren in an interview in Please Kill Me, the Uncensored Oral History of Punk by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain, Grove Press (1996), p. 199.”
There is more for sure but I wll just post this up for now.[/quote]
I used the term because that’s the general opinion, one I believe to be incorrect. I would have worded it more carefully if I knew we were going to have a debate.
Malcolm Mclaren is not important. He wanted to be, sure, but he wasn’t and it pissed him off. While he’d like to believe he started punk, he didn’t, and is actually the reason the Pistols broke up, which was the catalyst for the end of the movement. Mclaren was a wannabe loser and anything he says should be taken with several grains of proverbial salt.
He often told the Pistols what he would have liked to see them write songs about. They thought this was hilarious (mostly John) and mocked him with their creations. For example, Malcolm gave the band a list of words to base songs around. One of those words was ‘submission’. The song they came up with is about a submarine or ‘sub’ ‘mission’. Things like that. Mclaren definitely did want to copy Richard Hell, but he was a tool that wanted fame and money, and ultimately had no say about the music or anything ‘Punk’ at all.
Again, I’m not trying to upset anyone. Just discussing this with you folks.
I haven’t seen anyone say Lower Class Brats, I’m disappointed
The Lunachicks.
[quote]Zackgsc wrote:
I haven’t seen anyone say Lower Class Brats, I’m disappointed[/quote]
I know, I know… How “punk” you are is defined by the obscurity of the bands you listen to.
[quote]skaz05 wrote:
Zackgsc wrote:
I haven’t seen anyone say Lower Class Brats, I’m disappointed
I know, I know… How “punk” you are is defined by the obscurity of the bands you listen to.[/quote]
If LCB is obscure, god knows what I listen to is…
The one band that i think is way overrated is Pennywise. Every single album sounds the fucking same. I’m all for progression in bands.